From the Perch: Tate Martell

[umhurricano]

I honestly would not have faulted a guy like Williams (who I think I could elevate the qb play from a year ago on the field) for leaving a Mark Richt offense. I honestly do not think people understood how difficult it was for a quarterback to operate under that style of offense. I ultimately got validation from that fact later on in the season when I had the opportunity to talk candidly with a former player. It was honestly a surreal experience and just a intrinsic view of things that I valued being able to see.

I, for one, would be interested in hearing more about this conversation, not because I want to bash Richt—what’s done is done—but because I think there are dual sentiments on the board. One group thinks our current Oline and qbs are terrible and our upside on offense is limited unless we infuse new talent (which manny is clearly working on). I think there is a less prevalent belief that Enos will give us an immediate bump because his system allows players to succeed. What is your view? My guess is the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Canesnation40]

Do you see more of Manziel than Baker? That’s the resemblance I see on tape with the exception of running plays designed to go deep. Obviously with his playing time, they likely weren’t calling those plays in blowouts.

Not even close.

What you have to realize is Johnny was a special athlete. Even without a great deal of speed, Manizel had tremendous feet and ability that helped him extend plays and he had elite agility that helped him avoid tackles. He was like a walking first down at the college level.

Manizel was a special three sport athlete in HS. He really didn't have hardly any QB skill. He mainly was an athlete playing QB. He literally went from likely never seeing the field to with two months with Coach Whitfield, a Heisman winner. All he did was add a little skill with him. Nothing big and he was special at the college level.

Martell has excellent QB skills but he is no where near the athlete that Manizel is. Martell is a big short QB. 5'10 or 5'11ish at 215, he is carrying a lot more bulk. Lacks the agility outside of the pocket although he moves extremely well in it. Martell has decent arm strength to make all of the throws but Manizel had good arm strength for any QB with very good RPOs on the ball. Manizel lacking skills had to see WRs run open, Martell has the ability to throw WRs open.

Much different QBs. Manizel was a special athlete. His failure in the NFL had more to do with his lack of effort and focus. Lack of QB skills in a situation they needed a QB fast, and his situation where he landed into wasn't the best. But to be Frank, if Manizel had the effort, focus and landed in a situation where he could have sat for three years, he could have been a better Dak. He was that special at improvisation. His feet and agility used to get him out of anything. He had big hands where he could really handle the football. He just had a lot of talent and natural athletic ability.

 

[Ziggy]

Need all of this in a podcast lol

 

[Canesnation40]

This was Johnny, a lot of people forget how rare of an athlete he was. While Martell isnt a bad athlete, he is NO WHERE NEAR Manizel.

 

[brock]

This was Johnny, a lot of people forget how rare of an athlete he was. While Martell isnt a bad athlete, he is NO WHERE NEAR Manizel.

In terms of athleticism he is.

At martell has a sub 4.0 shuttle time(who is doing that at qb?

Vertical jump 36 inches

4.72(looks faster on film)

Bottom line he is quick and has great escapability from the pocket on the run and can make all the throws.

While he’s not Johnny mansiel he does have a similar game to him and McKenzie Milton imo

 

[Canesnation40]

In terms of athleticism he is.

At martell has a sub 4.0 shuttle time(who is doing that at qb?

Vertical jump 36 inches

4.72(looks faster on film)

Bottom line he is quick and has great escapability from the pocket on the run and can make all the throws.

While he’s not Johnny mansiel he does have a similar game to him and McKenzie Milton imo

Lol, no he isn't. One is an elite runner at the college level. The other clearly isn't. Martell has advanced QB skills. Milton is a system QB in a mid tier conference.

Manizel ran for over 1400 yards and had 21 rushing TDs as a freshman. I don't think you realize how good Manizel actually is talent wise.

 

[SonnyLong]

I think Tate Martell will serve as a quality backup to Jarren Williams.

 

[imyrhuckleberry]

Thanks for the fantastic write-up. This is without doubt the best Canes site on the internet.

 

[407cane]

Is he a legit 5'11?

Kyler Murray is rumored to be actually 5'9 so I'm not worried about the height. Can't wait to see him with enos

 

[FrancisSawyer]

I hate to say it but even with us winning, no way is he a 1 and done QB. He will need all three years like Mayfield. He has some kinks he needs to iron out but without question, he is working off of a great base. I clearly see why OSU went with Fields. In that system, he is just insane and he gives OSU a chance to win a title every year.

I do believe Martell gives us a shot to always win games. I was one that compared him to Mayfield but he has some Milton in him (UCF), some Brees, some Wilson, some Tua, and some Dungey (Cuse) in him. Development will be key. Right now, he is no where near close to the 1st round but he has potential to be gradable sooner than later. It takes a lot. Daniel Jones from Duke was one of my favorite QB prospects and it took RS Junior year to become a 1st round level QB. I been high on Jones since his freshman year.

Murray is a player I've always loved and it took him till his RS Jr year to become 1st round level QB.

What I am saying is Martell is as talented as those guys. System is critical for him. I love the move we made to get Enos. He has more work to do. Murray always had the accuracy but he finally was able to mix that with the 4.3 speed and elite agility he has as well as the ability to avoid the big hit.

Most of these guys just need 4 years but Mayfield needed 5. He didn't have the agility and skill that Murray or Martell had. But he had a better arm and he worked a system as well as anyone.

I am hyped to finally have talent like Martell. For years we choose guys with keys missing traits but with some otherworldly but useless talent and it capped our development. Martell is a game changer. It's showing that Miami is realizing, college football, is becoming a QB league's.

Fantastic analysis. Spot on!

 

[LuCane]

Do you see more of Manziel than Baker? That’s the resemblance I see on tape with the exception of running plays designed to go deep. Obviously with his playing time, they likely weren’t calling those plays in blowouts.

Definitely see that more than Baker. I just don't see the Baker one unless it's "white, relatively short QB with great feet." I think D$'s comps are pretty solid.

 

[LuCane]

I, for one, would be interested in hearing more about this conversation, not because I want to bash Richt—what’s done is done—but because I think there are dual sentiments on the board. One group thinks our current Oline and qbs are terrible and our upside on offense is limited unless we infuse new talent (which manny is clearly working on). I think there is a less prevalent belief that Enos will give us an immediate bump because his system allows players to succeed. What is your view? My guess is the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The group that wants to blame the OL and QBs aren't completely off. We need more talent. They needed to be better. Problem is, those position groups looked worse than they should. The discussions are eerily similar to how DL and LBs got judged under D'Onofrio. Actually, I think they had more of a shot to succeed under D'Onofrio than these guys under Coach Richt's offense.

 

[ghost2]

The group that wants to blame the OL and QBs aren't completely off. We need more talent. They needed to be better. Problem is, those position groups looked worse than they should. The discussions are eerily similar to how DL and LBs got judged under D'Onofrio. Actually, I think they had more of a shot to succeed under D'Onofrio than these guys under Coach Richt's offense.

So natural follow-up to that - once D'No was out and Diaz was in, there was an instant and dramatic turnaround in the defense both statistically and philosophically. Do you see the same potential turnaround occurring with the offense under a more competent staff?

 

[Roman Marciante]

I, for one, would be interested in hearing more about this conversation, not because I want to bash Richt—what’s done is done—but because I think there are dual sentiments on the board. One group thinks our current Oline and qbs are terrible and our upside on offense is limited unless we infuse new talent (which manny is clearly working on). I think there is a less prevalent belief that Enos will give us an immediate bump because his system allows players to succeed. What is your view? My guess is the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I think no one would convince me that this system was friendly enough on QBs in particular to succeed at a continued high level.

 

[Roman Marciante]

So natural follow-up to that - once D'No was out and Diaz was in, there was an instant and dramatic turnaround in the defense both statistically and philosophically. Do you see the same potential turnaround occurring with the offense under a more competent staff?

I do. Simply on the fact it's a much more qb friendly offense. Can't begin to Express the fact how much easier it is for a qb that enos bringing concepts (and check downs) in view of the quarterback

You don't get a frantic nature from a qb if route one is covered. Enos understands where the qb eyes will go. He'll bring the game to the qb.

Plus the multiplicity. Just he's going to manufacture coverage busts. I seen it multiple times on film.

Also with encouraging news that he'll bring most of the post snap rpo looks from bama with him. I honestly think that it is an equivalent of a check with me system tbh.

So from a qb perspective
1. My oc simplifies my reads with quality outs
2. Keeps me multiple thus keeping defenses off
3. Utilizes rpo game that gives me the advantage of adaptation on the fly

We will monumentally be better than richt just like we were better moving on from d'onofrio

 

[ghost2]

I do. Simply on the fact it's a much more qb friendly offense. Can't begin to Express the fact how much easier it is for a qb that enos bringing concepts (and check downs) in view of the quarterback

You don't get a frantic nature from a qb if route one is covered. Enos understands where the qb eyes will go. He'll bring the game to the qb.

Plus the multiplicity. Just he's going to manufacture coverage busts. I seen it multiple times on film.

Also with encouraging news that he'll bring most of the post snap rpo looks from bama with him. I honestly think that it is an equivalent of a check with me system tbh.

So from a qb perspective
1. My oc simplifies my reads with quality outs
2. Keeps me multiple thus keeping defenses off
3. Utilizes rpo game that gives me the advantage of adaptation on the fly

We will monumentally be better than richt just like we were better moving on from d'onofrio

This is fantastic to hear. Specifically, I'm hopeful we can improve drastically in 3rd down percentage - we were 59th in 2018 at 39.4%, for comparison Alabama was 3rd at 51.9% and in 2015 Arkansas was 12th at 47%.

 

[rsa coral gables]

We don't need Tate to come here and be Tua or win the Heisman (would be nice though). We need for him to make short, simple and quick passes to our talented receiving corps and let them do the rest, convert and not turn over the ball, all of which will translate into a winning program. Enos' complex but simple philosophy should be helpful. Once he starts winning and we start winning, we can go and get the next Heisman trophy winner.

 

[DTP]

Would I like him to be 3 inches taller and have a more explosive arm? Sure.
Can he still be very good/great QB here? Absolutely.

I've watched a bunch of UCF games the last three seasons and the comparisons to Milton are pretty spot on. Martell is a little more solidly built but their games are strikingly similar. Both are more quick than fast as runners. Both have a quick release with solid mechanics. Both are incredibly accurate on short and medium throws. Neither has a huge arm but they know how to generate extra torque without totally killing their mechanics. I think the designed QB run game will be crucial to Martell's success. Trying to make him a pocket passer would kill what he does best. He's as exciting a QB prospect as we've had in ages. I'm looking forward to seeing him play.

 

[LuCane]

So natural follow-up to that - once D'No was out and Diaz was in, there was an instant and dramatic turnaround in the defense both statistically and philosophically. Do you see the same potential turnaround occurring with the offense under a more competent staff?

The only difference is that an offense needs a trigger man. So, assuming that gets figured out, I see a drastic change.

 

[umhurricano]

The group that wants to blame the OL and QBs aren't completely off. We need more talent. They needed to be better. Problem is, those position groups looked worse than they should. The discussions are eerily similar to how DL and LBs got judged under D'Onofrio. Actually, I think they had more of a shot to succeed under D'Onofrio than these guys under Coach Richt's offense.

Exactly what I was thinking about, it just seems like the players in D'onofrios scheme got blamed a lot less than our current offensive players. Certainly there are deficiencies in Oline talent but I don't think the cupboard is as bare as when Manny took over. As I recall we had three true freshman linebackers starting, not a whole lot of proven talent (and certainly not depth) on the dline, and 3 miami caliber dbs. Compare that with some of the best running backs in the country, decent depth and talent at wr, what I think are capable qbs in a new system, and at least some size upfront.

My biggest takeaway from watching Arkansas film is how many guys Enos got running wide open every game. We never saw that with Richt. I am most excited about the virtuous cycle of a better scheme on offense scores more points but also makes the defense better. In return we win more games and get better players. Onwards and upwards.