For those experts out there - Emory's arm strength Q?

[jdg3158]

Emory’s arm is fine. Not the strongest not the weakest. About average.

The thing that bothers me is he doesn’t use laces to throw, has an ackward grip so the ball shoots out funny sometimes. When that happens it’s harder to catch. I’ve never seen top QBs throw like that. My biggest gripe.

He’s compensating to get the ball out fast by sacrificing a bit of accuracy.

 

[Ironmanfootball]

Arm strength is so much more than throwing the ball a long distance. That’s actually the least important thing. If you’re inside the five and the defense is compressed, can you squeeze the ball into a tiny window before the defender can react? Can you pull the ball on an RPO/ wide receiver screen and hit the field side receiver before the defender reads screen? Can you hit the slant against man coverage in that split second between when the receiver crosses the DB’s face and when he gets too close to the linebacker? These are things you need to do as a FBS quarterback. If you have a noodle arm, you can’t and you’re limiting your offense.

I agree. Just think about some of those floaters Cam started throwing later in the year. They weren't "deep" throws, but they were across the field (wider hashes than NFL) and jumped or nearly jumped multiple times.

Also some required the WR to jump so the YAC was cut down. In college you have to throw the 10-yard out with zip and accuracy. NFL it's the 15-yard out.

Miami pre-Cam has suffered through QB's who couldn't accurately throw a screen.

 

[Ironmanfootball]

I remember when noodle arm Walsh replaced cannon armed, Heisman choker Testaverde, then won a national title.

Not saying that will happen with Emory, partly because Mario is no Jimmy Johnson, but arm strength is only part of the equation. Just like WR speed is only part of it.

That being said, Emory will have to be absolutely lights out in the accuracy and decision making to lead this O. It's possible, but I'm sure as heck taking a wait and see approach before saying it'll turn out well.

Lemme know when Miami has a future NFL HOF'er run out at WR, along with a pair of future Pro Bowl WR's and a defense at all let alone one loaded with studs like Bennie Blades, Danny Stubbs, etc.

 

[305407cane]

Also I loved Steve Walsh and Ken Dorsey but can we stop making almost 40 year old comparisons? Today’s game is not the same as it was 25 years ago and it’s miles away from where it was 35 years ago. This is like Notre Dame fans saying they should go back to a wing T offense because Paul Hornung was so awesome.

The Dorsey comparisons are lazy. He was a good athlete and had good functional qb movement skills. He played basketball too. Plus Dorsey had the best line in front of him

 

[CanesAreAble]

His arm seems strong enough.

I'm more concerned with the labored delivery and poor movement ability.

 

[DTP]

I agree. Just think about some of those floaters Cam started throwing later in the year. They weren't "deep" throws, but they were across the field (wider hashes than NFL) and jumped or nearly jumped multiple times.

Also some required the WR to jump so the YAC was cut down. In college you have to throw the 10-yard out with zip and accuracy. NFL it's the 15-yard out.

Miami pre-Cam has suffered through QB's who couldn't accurately throw a screen.

I would consider Cam’s arm as “NFL average”. He can make pretty much all the throws but he doesn’t wow you with incredible zip. Although he throws off base so often you have to give his arm some credit.

 

[Lance Roffers]

He was hoping for @Lance Roffers probably.

His arm is mediocre on the scale of a major P4 QB. I'm not saying it's unplayable, but it is a 4 or 5 on a scale of 1-10 amongst major P4 teams (of which there are probably 40 teams).

One of the things I noticed when I watched him on film coming out of high school, was that his lack of drive on the ball showed up in certain situations. The ball would get held up, or it allowed real CB's the chance to drive on the ball.

Overall, it's tough to say it has improved markedly since that time. I've watched and reviewed all of his games and not seen anything that changes the game too much. It was probably a 4 in HS, up to a 5 after freshman year. Didn't play enough to move the needle this year.

The coaches are in the building with him every day. They see all the practice film. Most teams also have in-season scrimmages for players who didn't play in the game (not sure if Emory would play in those or not), and have a feel for where he's at physically. I can only go off of what I see, and that small amount has me arrive at grades such as this:

Frame- 7 (nice height, decent build)

Arm- 5 (average to adequate)

Athleticism- 3 (he's a limited athlete who won't make off-schedule plays often)

Accuracy- 6 (it's solid to above-average)

Football IQ- 8 (this is what gives him a chance)

Competitiveness- 9 (his teammates love him)

Poise- 7 (he's well above-average in poise)

Overall- 6 (most likely he's an average to slightly above QB at the major P5 level who is similar to a Fernando Mendoza)

If it were me, I'd go into the portal hard for a good to great portal QB and have them compete. I've been told they are monitoring QB's and will pursue one they think is great, but won't run Emory off by signaling that they have to replace him at all costs.

As always, keep in mind that Mario isn't calling me and telling me what he's thinking, my information comes from various support people or people around the program and not Mario himself. This is simply how I see it, hear it, and perceive it.

 

[NJshoreCane]

Also I loved Steve Walsh and Ken Dorsey but can we stop making almost 40 year old comparisons? Today’s game is not the same as it was 25 years ago and it’s miles away from where it was 35 years ago. This is like Notre Dame fans saying they should go back to a wing T offense because Paul Hornung was so awesome.

We know Emory doesn’t have a rocket arm.
If his arm strength is “strong enough”…. for today’s game, …and he’s a winner, I’m good.
It’s the winner part that time-travels.

That being said, based on what saw during the Clemson game, I’m not convinced he’s got good enough arm talent.
So Let’s put a nice big bow on Mateer for the Holidays and get him in orange and green.

 

[DTP]

His arm is mediocre on the scale of a major P4 QB. I'm not saying it's unplayable, but it is a 4 or 5 on a scale of 1-10 amongst major P4 teams (of which there are probably 40 teams).

One of the things I noticed when I watched him on film coming out of high school, was that his lack of drive on the ball showed up in certain situations. The ball would get held up, or it allowed real CB's the chance to drive on the ball.

Overall, it's tough to say it has improved markedly since that time. I've watched and reviewed all of his games and not seen anything that changes the game too much. It was probably a 4 in HS, up to a 5 after freshman year. Didn't play enough to move the needle this year.

The coaches are in the building with him every day. They see all the practice film. Most teams also have in-season scrimmages for players who didn't play in the game (not sure if Emory would play in those or not), and have a feel for where he's at physically. I can only go off of what I see, and that small amount has me arrive at grades such as this:

Frame- 7 (nice height, decent build)

Arm- 5 (average to adequate)

Athleticism- 3 (he's a limited athlete who won't make off-schedule plays often)

Accuracy- 6 (it's solid to above-average)

Football IQ- 8 (this is what gives him a chance)

Competitiveness- 9 (his teammates love him)

Poise- 7 (he's well above-average in poise)

Overall- 6 (most likely he's an average to slightly above QB at the major P5 level who is similar to a Fernando Mendoza)

If it were me, I'd go into the portal hard for a good to great portal QB and have them compete. I've been told they are monitoring QB's and will pursue one they think is great, but won't run Emory off by signaling that they have to replace him at all costs.

As always, keep in mind that Mario isn't calling me and telling me what he's thinking, my information comes from various support people or people around the program and not Mario himself. This is simply how I see it, hear it, and perceive it.

Spot on. His intangibles are off the charts but his tangibles are mediocre

 

[Gransapo]

 

[SCarolina Ibis]

Thank you Lance. This is the perfect Emory post.

There's nothing to go off of except for what's available.

The description of the player you saw on film is a perfect description of the player I saw live.

I think you nailed most/all the number grades you gave him in each category, except for overall. Unless that's based on future projection and not current ability.

I do feel like he holds onto the ball a bit to long at times though.

I can live with a weaker arm QB if he can beat a defense with his legs. So, I am concerned that his lack of arm talent and mobility will put the offense in too much of a box.

But again, thank you for being honest.

 

[Lance Roffers]

Thank you Lance. This is the perfect Emory post.

There's nothing to go off of except for what's available.

The description of the player you saw on film is a perfect description of the player I saw live.

I think you nailed most/all the number grades you gave him in each category, except for overall. Unless that's based on future projection and not current ability.

I do feel like he holds onto the ball a bit to long at times though.

I can live with a weaker arm QB if he can beat a defense with his legs. So, I am concerned that his lack of arm talent and mobility will put the offense in too much of a box.

But again, thank you for being honest.

Personally, I see his intangibles allowing his tangibles to play at a grade above them. So he moves to a 6 overall in-game due to the way his competitiveness and poise allows them to play up.

But I'm a decently big believer in him because I saw him play his best in the biggest moments as a true freshman, which means something to me.

If we roll with Emory, we are going to be a lot of close battles and we probably win one more than we should due to Emory's poise and competitiveness. My experience is there is something to the stigma that players play more for certain guys than others and everyone around the program tells me he's like that. Is that just wishcasting? Possibly. And possibly I'm falling for the banana in the tailpipe by not giving him a 5 overall.

 

[DTP]

We know Emory doesn’t have a rocket arm.
If his arm strength is “strong enough”…. for today’s game, …and he’s a winner, I’m good.
It’s the winner part that time-travels.

That being said, based on what saw during the Clemson game, I’m not convinced he’s got good enough arm talent.
So Let’s put a nice big bow on Mateer for the Holidays and get him in orange and green.

I don’t believe quarterbacks are “winners”. You either play good or you play bad. If you play bad but your team still wins, you don’t get credit for that. I also don’t blame a quarterback who plays good but his team fails him and they lose. I don’t blame Cam for losing to Syracuse.

 

[SCarolina Ibis]

Personally, I see his intangibles allowing his tangibles to play at a grade above them. So he moves to a 6 overall in-game due to the way his competitiveness and poise allows them to play up.

But I'm a decently big believer in him because I saw him play his best in the biggest moments as a true freshman, which means something to me.

If we roll with Emory, we are going to be a lot of close battles and we probably win one more than we should due to Emory's poise and competitiveness. My experience is there is something to the stigma that players play more for certain guys than others and everyone around the program tells me he's like that. Is that just wishcasting? Possibly. And possibly I'm falling for the banana in the tailpipe by not giving him a 5 overall.

One thing I do have to point out here is what you said about close battles.

If we're in a close battle, coaching is going to play a large role. While I am a Mario slurper, I can admit that his coaching in close games has been an issue (to put it mildly).

Call me crazy, but I think its probably not a good idea to roll with the QB who's going to put us in a lot of close games, as long as we have a coach who's biggest flaw is his decision making in close games.

 

[Lance Roffers]

One thing I do have to point out here is what you said about close battles.

If we're in a close battle, coaching is going to play a large role. While I am a Mario slurper, I can admit that his coaching in close games has been an issue (to put it mildly).

Call me crazy, but I think its probably not a good idea to roll with the QB who's going to put us in a lot of close games, as long as we have a coach who's biggest flaw is his decision making in close games.

From an analytics standpoint, the strength of a team is measured in how often they are able to avoid the variance of one-score games (by not playing them in the first place). A QB is more responsible for wins and losses than any other position- by a good distance.

That said, the QB isn't solely responsible for wins and losses in games. Your goal is to accrue as much Expected Points Added (EPA) as possible; on both sides of the ball.

Offense is more sticky than defense game-to-game and year-to-year, so I prefer to build around offense and QB's rather than defense and defensive lines (assuming finite resources).

So, I think in a way we are saying the same thing. Me saying a 6 QB results in more close games is the same thing as you saying you don't think it's a good idea to roll with a QB who will have you in close games. By definition, a 6 QB is going to be in more close games than 8 because they aren't as good and are contributing less EPA, which leads to more close games.

If the choice is there, we are all choosing the 8 QB over the 6 QB, even if it requires more resources to get the 8. Ward was more of a 9 and isn't available this year in the portal, so how much more resources is the question you have to evaluate and decide upon.

With analytics, teams do this all the time in the NFL, where they're deciding what each incremental gain is worth in real-world resources and big time colleges will do this soon as well. Price per win, the amount of wins each position can conceivably add, presence of substitutes, and scarcity of position will all factor. It is my belief Miami will use some analytics as well.

 

[SCarolina Ibis]

From an analytics standpoint, the strength of a team is measured in how often they are able to avoid the variance of one-score games (by not playing them in the first place). A QB is more responsible for wins and losses than any other position- by a good distance.

That said, the QB isn't solely responsible for wins and losses in games. Your goal is to accrue as much Expected Points Added (EPA) as possible; on both sides of the ball.

Offense is more sticky than defense game-to-game and year-to-year, so I prefer to build around offense and QB's rather than defense and defensive lines (assuming finite resources).

So, I think in a way we are saying the same thing. Me saying a 6 QB results in more close games is the same thing as you saying you don't think it's a good idea to roll with a QB who will have you in close games. By definition, a 6 QB is going to be in more close games than 8 because they aren't as good and are contributing less EPA, which leads to more close games.

If the choice is there, we are all choosing the 8 QB over the 6 QB, even if it requires more resources to get the 8. Ward was more of a 9 and isn't available this year in the portal, so how much more resources is the question you have to evaluate and decide upon.

With analytics, teams do this all the time in the NFL, where they're deciding what each incremental gain is worth in real-world resources and big time colleges will do this soon as well. Price per win, the amount of wins each position can conceivably add, presence of substitutes, and scarcity of position will all factor. It is my belief Miami will use some analytics as well.

What do you have Mateer rated?

 

[Lance Roffers]

What do you have Mateer rated?

I have him in that 8 area. I've done more work on him than you'd think because they brought Mateer into every game when Ward was there.

He is a tough SOB. Runs hard, strong arm. Erratic passer. Competitiveness is really high. Players would love him like Emory and play for him.

He's a 6 or a 7 passer, but he's really strong with his legs and making/extending plays. He's a true upgrade on Emory.

 

[DTP]

One thing I do have to point out here is what you said about close battles.

If we're in a close battle, coaching is going to play a large role. While I am a Mario slurper, I can admit that his coaching in close games has been an issue (to put it mildly).

Call me crazy, but I think its probably not a good idea to roll with the QB who's going to put us in a lot of close games, as long as we have a coach who's biggest flaw is his decision making in close games.

This is especially true since Mario’s goal is to out talent opponents. When you’re physically more talented than all your opponents (we were this year), you never want to play it conservative and/or play tight games. Not only does every coaching decision get magnified, it also allows for freak plays and lucky bounces to impact the outcome. You want to eliminate as many variables as possible and have it just come down to “our players are bigger, stronger, faster than theirs.”

 

[NicKane]

I feel like we've established that Emory has the leadership and smarts to lead the team, but it seems like there has been a little shade on his arm strength. I'm no expert on arm strength and it's clear even for amateur such as I that Cam has a stronger throwing arm than Emory, but my real question for the pros out there is - is his arm strength adequate to run a pass heavy O or do we HAVE to get another QB with a strong enough arm?

Personal opinion - I think his arm strength is enough to lead the O, but curious as to what you fellas think.....

If you want a vertical passing game versus an east west passing game, then you need a quarterback with above average arm strength, or at the bare minimum average arm strength. This is something Emery does not have, he has below average arm strength and a slow/low release.

I feel like we've established that Emory has the leadership and smarts to lead the team, but it seems like there has been a little shade on his arm strength. I'm no expert on arm strength and it's clear even for amateur such as I that Cam has a stronger throwing arm than Emory, but my real question for the pros out there is - is his arm strength adequate to run a pass heavy O or do we HAVE to get another QB with a strong enough arm?

Personal opinion - I think his arm strength is enough to lead the O, but curious as to what you fellas think.....

if you want a vertical passing game versus an east west passing game, then Emery is not your guy. You need above average arm, strength, or at the minimum average arm strength to push the ball down field vertically. Emery has below average arm strength and a slow/low release. Go back and watch the two games he started last year and you can see how many balls were batted down by the defense of line against him. He is not Miami starting quarterback material, no matter how much heart and passion he has for the game. If you can’t make the passes required of you, it doesn’t matter how much heart and passion you have for the game. Canes fans need to let this go, he’s a back up quarterback at Best here. I don’t understand why many of us have to keep educating people on this fact.

 

[DTP]

We don't recruit close to the way Bama recruits. They had 20 5*s, they had a good DC and Saban. We have Wario and a **** defense. Think next time big brain

Also, Bama hasn’t had a noodle arm game manager quarterback for over a decade. These guys live in the past. Bama has had play makers and Heisman candidates at quarterback for years.