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Coaching FG / 2 PT Decisions

What's crazy to me is the defensive problems contributed to the decision. That, to me, is a massive indictment on Guidry.
 

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You have a point. Put Mario has been doing that since he got here and the other CISers just argue back "FGs aren't going to win the game." But I don't think they are good at math.
 
AutoCANE said:
Curious to get the board’s take on these choices. The decision to not take 3 before the half to me was a panic move and ultimately changed the flow of the game in GT’s favor.

Typical Mario would have taken the three there, but I think the 10 minute drive and our lack of getting off the field on defense affected his decision making. Seemed to me that he panicked into an atypical decision (regardless of analytics) due to the feeling that possessions were going to be at a premium and we needed 6’s and not 3’s. I have the utmost confidence in Cam too, but normal unaffected Mario trots out Borregales there, puts the three in our pocket, and on we go.

What that played out to look like in the end we all know - more failed 4th downs, points left on the field, and a big ugly L. It’s easy to second guess after the fact as we all know, but I think that was a scared decision - made because our defense can’t make a stop - that caused us to play with unneeded stress the rest of the way.

If you take the points there, later you don’t go for two in desperation, and you kick the FG again and hopefully walk away with an ugly two point victory.

Yes, hindsight of course. We lost because our defense is terrible. But I think Mario panicked and it cost us. I’d love to hear y’all’s thoughts.
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Except... that's not how football works. If Miami kicks/ tries to kick that first early field goal, the ENTIRE rest of the game plays out differently. Miami makes the first field goal, there a kickoff next, not gt getting the ball on downs. Maybe they run it back, maybe they fumble, maybe they…

Miami could have missed it, etc. literally every subsequent play changes - good or bad.

Doesn’t take away from decision making but you can’t just assume same scores or sequencing in either direction unless it’s the last play of a game or MAYBE last play of half but even that might alter strategy coming out for the 3rd quarter kickoff or adjustment on first series.
 
AutoCANE said:
Curious to get the board’s take on these choices. The decision to not take 3 before the half to me was a panic move and ultimately changed the flow of the game in GT’s favor.

Typical Mario would have taken the three there, but I think the 10 minute drive and our lack of getting off the field on defense affected his decision making. Seemed to me that he panicked into an atypical decision (regardless of analytics) due to the feeling that possessions were going to be at a premium and we needed 6’s and not 3’s. I have the utmost confidence in Cam too, but normal unaffected Mario trots out Borregales there, puts the three in our pocket, and on we go.

What that played out to look like in the end we all know - more failed 4th downs, points left on the field, and a big ugly L. It’s easy to second guess after the fact as we all know, but I think that was a scared decision - made because our defense can’t make a stop - that caused us to play with unneeded stress the rest of the way.

If you take the points there, later you don’t go for two in desperation, and you kick the FG again and hopefully walk away with an ugly two point victory.

Yes, hindsight of course. We lost because our defense is terrible. But I think Mario panicked and it cost us. I’d love to hear y’all’s thoughts.
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I don’t mind the fourth down calls later in the game, but the first one before the half … I would’ve went the other way. Although the D wasn’t stopping them, the game was going to be limited in possessions based on GTs gameplan. Take the essential tie, start the second half with the ball basically tied.
 
Ispyin said:
Except... that's not how football works. If Miami kicks/ tries to kick that first early field goal, the ENTIRE rest of the game plays out differently. Miami makes the first field goal, there a kickoff next, not gt getting the ball on downs. Maybe they run it back, maybe they fumble, maybe they…

Miami could have missed it, etc. literally every subsequent play changes - good or bad.

Doesn’t take away from decision making but you can’t just assume same scores or sequencing in either direction unless it’s the last play of a game or MAYBE last play of half but even that might alter strategy coming out for the 3rd quarter kickoff or adjustment on first series.
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Of course and I agree with you because that is 100% accurate. But going for it on 4th down there (and not getting the conversion) was pivotal. A 1 pt deficit is an entirely different animal than a 4 pt deficit with an entire half yet to play. Yes Borregales could have still missed the kick but I would have put him out there confident he would bang it through the uprights like he does most of the time.

Again - it’s all hindsight and who knows what would have happened from there. It is just my opinion that it was an incorrect panic call by our head coach.
 
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No one should say a word about going for it on 4th down unless *****ed earlier in season. We’ve been virtually unstoppable short yardage 3rd & 4th down — just run the **** ball.
 
Normally, on the road you take the points, but C Ward changes that decision. It turned out to be the wrong decision, but alot of other things went wrong also, it was an accumulation of errors.
 
I agree with the sentiment. We couldn’t stop em. You gotta trust Cam. He just **** the bed yesterday.
 
Play call aside, Fletcher over ran that route on the 4&1. He had a great push and continued running into a wall of defenders? If he cut to the side line it’s an easy completion.
 
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AutoCANE said:
Curious to get the board’s take on these choices. The decision to not take 3 before the half to me was a panic move and ultimately changed the flow of the game in GT’s favor.

Typical Mario would have taken the three there, but I think the 10 minute drive and our lack of getting off the field on defense affected his decision making. Seemed to me that he panicked into an atypical decision (regardless of analytics) due to the feeling that possessions were going to be at a premium and we needed 6’s and not 3’s. I have the utmost confidence in Cam too, but normal unaffected Mario trots out Borregales there, puts the three in our pocket, and on we go.

What that played out to look like in the end we all know - more failed 4th downs, points left on the field, and a big ugly L. It’s easy to second guess after the fact as we all know, but I think that was a scared decision - made because our defense can’t make a stop - that caused us to play with unneeded stress the rest of the way.

If you take the points there, later you don’t go for two in desperation, and you kick the FG again and hopefully walk away with an ugly two point victory.

Yes, hindsight of course. We lost because our defense is terrible. But I think Mario panicked and it cost us. I’d love to hear y’all’s thoughts.
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OK going for it on 4th down and 1 but the play call sucked. Run Martinez for the 1st down.
 
AlexCane said:
We complained when Mario was conservative. This season he’s coached very aggressively and until yesterday, it worked in our favor. Can’t have it both ways. If you’re complaining about the decision, you’re playing the result.
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You can have it both ways. A coach doesn’t need to be aggressive or conservative all the time. They need to be able to adapt to the flow of the game.

Most complain about the coach’s feel for the game, and then the plays or formations used.
 
Angry Ibis said:
You can have it both ways. A coach doesn’t need to be aggressive or conservative all the time. They need to be able to adapt to the flow of the game.

Most complain about the coach’s feel for the game, and then the plays or formations used.
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Except this defense is what it is.
 
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Angry Ibis said:
You can have it both ways. A coach doesn’t need to be aggressive or conservative all the time. They need to be able to adapt to the flow of the game.

Most complain about the coach’s feel for the game, and then the plays or formations used.
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I dont think Id personally kick fgs after GT scored a TD on a 17 play 11 minute drive.
 
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Hoyacane1620 said:
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In hindsight, I definitely understand the point, but during the live bullet exercise, they were driving the ball for 8 to 11 minutes and scoring TDs. We weren’t getting too many possessions. I’m no Mario believer, but I don’t fault him for going for those and expecting at least one of those drives is 6 to 8 points because of it.
 
100% panic move, chasing the game, and I said it at the time. So did my friend (long-time Canes die hard) watching it. We had to be patient in a game like this.

Failure to take the easy points limited what we could do later. Massive impact on the game.

This was tied WORST COACHING DECISION of the game, along with Dawson's play call on 4th and 1.

Edit. Both decisions were so bad I had to make a draw.
 
Hoyacane1620 said:
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1. 4th and 3 at GT 23....Take the points and kick the FG. Just over 2 minutes left in the half. We get ball to start 2nd half.

2. 4th and 1 at GT 39...Going for it was correct call. Thats a 56-57 yard FG. Not a gimmie, but certainly with Borregales range. We haven't been stopped all year running Martinez or Fletcher on 4th and 1, but Martinez makes it look easy. Wrong play call and then wrong personnel for that play. I said it before, but Martinez should not have been on the sidelines on that play. Egregious coaching decision.

3. 4th and 16 from GT 22...Take the points. Puts us down 9 points. Still over 10 minutes left in the game. We would only need TD and FG to win. Would need to stop GT at least twice in those 10 minutes, which we actually did. I know, shocking it may be.

Terrible coaching overthinking everything in those all 3 of those situations.
 
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