Even Plies know (regarding Ward)

[hiphopanimal]

I for one am grateful for @certifiedgoon contributions to this thread...post more dawg

 

[certifiedgoon]

I for one am grateful for @certifiedgoon contributions to this thread...post more dawg

I appreciate that bro. If we're talking 97-2010ish, I'm here for it. I have plenty of stories.

But I live in South Africa now, doing business out here. So I'll post when I can when it's in my wheelhouse!

Btw, just to show how amazingly small the world is. On my first trip out here in 2016, I literally came across this. Now the photo used on this wrap was from our first photoshoot for press photos with Bob Croslin (this same shoot produced the photo with Plies and the orange Hummer that was in our first XXL article). Now this photo was NOT sent out for wide distribution (I think it might have been used in Grind Mode's magazine they had back in the day). But somehow, it got across to South Africa (and we did not ever intentionally drop music out here) and ended up on this transport van. Crazy moment for me.

 

[BornAcaneDieAcane]

True Story. Plies had the streets in a headlock. The challenge was finding a way to do what he did best without losing the edge. His street music was TOO street for radio. We almost did that with the Akon "I Wanna F*ck You" (we leaked that record originally)...it was gutter enough (I Wanna F*ck You) to sound like a Plies record but it was Akon so hella commercial. Also, Hypnotized was the make-up record we got from Akon after we patched things up. Rick Ross' "Cross The Line" was made for us. When we went to Criteria, he was making that for us (to give us a "Jeezy Soul Survivor-type record)...we told him play what he's got on the hard drive instead...we heard the Hypnotized track and took that.

Anyway, back to Shawty...Drumma Boy had a song deal for 10 tracks with Atlantic. Atlantic would send out Beat CDs for artists. On one of the CDs was that Drumma Boy beat. Pain wrote that hook to that beat and Mike Blumstein hit us up just after Christmas and told us he got our single. We recorded the record at Circle House. Fabian mixed it. Atlantic STILL didn't understand how big we were in the streets, so they pushed back. But Pain putting in that word helped push it over the line. We released the record in Feb and several months later we were getting 12k+ spins a week on radio and had a Top 5 Record.

Word! I knew Shawty was a hit when I first heard it. Although I never worked on any projects at Circle house, I know alot of hits were recorded there. E-Class did his thing with PoeBoy back in the day.

 

[certifiedgoon]

Word! I knew Shawty was a hit when I first heard it. Although I never worked on any projects at Circle house, I know alot of hits were recorded there. E-Class did his thing with PoeBoy back in the day.

Yeah we knew we had a smash when they played the hook for us. We had issues with the record later too (after it was all over the radio). Drumma Boy told me there was no samples or interpolations on the production. Come to find out he "co-produced" this with his brother Ensayne Wayne...who in fact sampled Earth, Wind and Fire on it. So they popped up around June (when our album is about to drop in August). I made Drumma Boy eat the 25% publishing that they were asking for since he wasn't upfront about this and this would have tied up all the money and prevented us from hitting our release date.

We had another issue right before releasing The Real Testament. Lyor Cohen wanted us to remove "I Kno U Workin" from the album, citing it promoted violence against law enforcement and cooperating informants (Lyor had/has strong relationships with the Police Associations). We refused to bend on this. Plies insisted that this song be on his album. He felt it was critical to tell the story he wanted on this album. The Real Testament is essentially the "bible" for the streets (our original idea was to call it "The Real N***a Bible" and we promotoed that way with flyers/posters at the Ozone Awards in Orlando in 2006). Well, when Plies has his mind set on something he is the most headstrong person there is and will not budge. So Atlantic/Warner was not going to win this. So ultimately, we had to write a letter stating that we took on full responsibility and were liable for any lawsuits that stemed from acts of violence that record would result in.

As for E-Class/Poe Boy...Rick Ross never drops without them. Ross and Plies both succeeded in spite of Slip-N-Slide Records. Any successful move by either was vehemently fought against by Ted. Fernando Watson was Ross' Product Manager at the label. Ross was close with E-Class and was also looking to him for guidance (since they were the BEST street promoters in Miami back then) and they worked hand-in-hand to push Ross because Ted couldn't understand the game had passed him by and he had no idea what would work. Ross started promoting Poe Boy (even though he was signed to SNS) and E-Class became his defacto manager (even though he was managed by Redd). Fernando left after that album was turned in and Poe Boy basically ran Ross' early career (while SNS basically colected checks). Made more interesting since Ross was one if (if not the first) artist Jay-Z signed to distribute (via Slip-N-Slide) at Def Jam as a part of his new VP of A&R role back then. So Def Jam has to liasse with Ted who basically can''t communivcate with the artist anymore and he has do this via E-Class. A year later, he's dealing with a similar situation with us.

Oh and "Hustlin" came via Atlantic. Mike Caren sent over The Runners beat (similar to how the Drumma Boy "Shawty" track was distributed) to us. I distributed that CD to all the usual suspects: Trick (via Santana), Ross and Trina (via Redd), Plies, Deuce Poppi, Kase, Mystic, etc. Ross recorded the record (hence the orriginal "Atlantic" reference)...SNS' exclusive distribution deal with Atlantic ended at the same time the record got hot. Def Jam made a better offer and Ted placed Ross there. Atlantic was ****ED because they basically were responsible for breaking an artist for a rival label

 

[hiphopanimal]

Yeah we knew we had a smash when they played the hook for us. We had issues with the record later too (after it was all over the radio). Drumma Boy told me there was no samples or interpolations on the production. Come to find out he "co-produced" this with his brother Ensayne Wayne...who in fact sampled Earth, Wind and Fire on it. So they popped up around June (when our album is about to drop in August). I made Drumma Boy eat the 25% publishing that they were asking for since he wasn't upfront about this and this would have tied up all the money and prevented us from hitting our release date.

We had another issue right before releasing The Real Testament. Lyor Cohen wanted us to remove "I Kno U Workin" from the album, citing it promoted violence against law enforcement and cooperating informants (Lyor had/has strong relationships with the Police Associations). We refused to bend on this. Plies insisted that this song be on his album. He felt it was critical to tell the story he wanted on this album. The Real Testament is essentially the "bible" for the streets (our original idea was to call it "The Real N***a Bible" and we promotoed that way with flyers/posters at the Ozone Awards in Orlando in 2006). Well, when Plies has his mind set on something he is the most headstrong person there is and will not budge. So Atlantic/Warner was not going to win this. So ultimately, we had to write a letter stating that we took on full responsibility and were liable for any lawsuits that stemed from acts of violence that record would result in.

As for E-Class/Poe Boy...Rick Ross never drops without them. Ross and Plies both succeeded in spite of Slip-N-Slide Records. Any successful move by either was vehemently fought against by Ted. Fernando Watson was Ross' Product Manager at the label. Ross was close with E-Class and was also looking to him for guidance (since they were the BEST street promoters in Miami back then) and they worked hand-in-hand to push Ross because Ted couldn't understand the game had passed him by and he had no idea what would work. Ross started promoting Poe Boy (even though he was signed to SNS) and E-Class became his defacto manager (even though he was managed by Redd). Fernando left after that album was turned in and Poe Boy basically ran Ross' early career (while SNS basically colected checks). Made more interesting since Ross was one if (if not the first) artist Jay-Z signed to distribute (via Slip-N-Slide) at Def Jam as a part of his new VP of A&R role back then. So Def Jam has to liasse with Ted who basically can''t communivcate with the artist anymore and he has do this via E-Class. A year later, he's dealing with a similar situation with us.

Oh and "Hustlin" came via Atlantic. Mike Caren sent over The Runners beat (similar to how the Drumma Boy "Shawty" track was distributed) to us. I distributed that CD to all the usual suspects: Trick (via Santana), Ross and Trina (via Redd), Plies, Deuce Poppi, Kase, Mystic, etc. Ross recorded the record (hence the orriginal "Atlantic" reference)...SNS' exclusive distribution deal with Atlantic ended at the same time the record got hot. Def Jam made a better offer and Ted placed Ross there. Atlantic was ****ED because they basically were responsible for breaking an artist for a rival label

This is some fascinating ish. Port of Miami is still one of my favourite all-time albums. Ross' first few years were masterful - I think he's underrated overall.

 

[BornAcaneDieAcane]

Yeah we knew we had a smash when they played the hook for us. We had issues with the record later too (after it was all over the radio). Drumma Boy told me there was no samples or interpolations on the production. Come to find out he "co-produced" this with his brother Ensayne Wayne...who in fact sampled Earth, Wind and Fire on it. So they popped up around June (when our album is about to drop in August). I made Drumma Boy eat the 25% publishing that they were asking for since he wasn't upfront about this and this would have tied up all the money and prevented us from hitting our release date.

We had another issue right before releasing The Real Testament. Lyor Cohen wanted us to remove "I Kno U Workin" from the album, citing it promoted violence against law enforcement and cooperating informants (Lyor had/has strong relationships with the Police Associations). We refused to bend on this. Plies insisted that this song be on his album. He felt it was critical to tell the story he wanted on this album. The Real Testament is essentially the "bible" for the streets (our original idea was to call it "The Real N***a Bible" and we promotoed that way with flyers/posters at the Ozone Awards in Orlando in 2006). Well, when Plies has his mind set on something he is the most headstrong person there is and will not budge. So Atlantic/Warner was not going to win this. So ultimately, we had to write a letter stating that we took on full responsibility and were liable for any lawsuits that stemed from acts of violence that record would result in.

As for E-Class/Poe Boy...Rick Ross never drops without them. Ross and Plies both succeeded in spite of Slip-N-Slide Records. Any successful move by either was vehemently fought against by Ted. Fernando Watson was Ross' Product Manager at the label. Ross was close with E-Class and was also looking to him for guidance (since they were the BEST street promoters in Miami back then) and they worked hand-in-hand to push Ross because Ted couldn't understand the game had passed him by and he had no idea what would work. Ross started promoting Poe Boy (even though he was signed to SNS) and E-Class became his defacto manager (even though he was managed by Redd). Fernando left after that album was turned in and Poe Boy basically ran Ross' early career (while SNS basically colected checks). Made more interesting since Ross was one if (if not the first) artist Jay-Z signed to distribute (via Slip-N-Slide) at Def Jam as a part of his new VP of A&R role back then. So Def Jam has to liasse with Ted who basically can''t communivcate with the artist anymore and he has do this via E-Class. A year later, he's dealing with a similar situation with us.

Oh and "Hustlin" came via Atlantic. Mike Caren sent over The Runners beat (similar to how the Drumma Boy "Shawty" track was distributed) to us. I distributed that CD to all the usual suspects: Trick (via Santana), Ross and Trina (via Redd), Plies, Deuce Poppi, Kase, Mystic, etc. Ross recorded the record (hence the orriginal "Atlantic" reference)...SNS' exclusive distribution deal with Atlantic ended at the same time the record got hot. Def Jam made a better offer and Ted placed Ross there. Atlantic was ****ED because they basically were responsible for breaking an artist for a rival label

Very interesting stuff. Regarding the Runners, I remember when they told me about the Hustlin record. They had finished producing Money on my mind for Lil Wayne and were excited about Hustlin. Mayne told me that it was going to be a game changer and he was right. A year later, I ran into the Runners and Dj Khaled while working with an artist named Bedo Turkoglu. The Runners and Khaled were working with Bedo with a song called "Money to the ceiling" and my team did "Luv Dat", which was originally supposed to go to Yung Joc but Bedo's manager, Tony Wilkins, insisted on that record. Tommie Hicks jr engineered the project with former Sony BMG A&R Victor Cade over seeing the project. Due to internal issues with the management and the label, Bedo's album was never released.

 

[certifiedgoon]

This is some fascinating ish. Port of Miami is still one of my favourite all-time albums. Ross' first few years were masterful - I think he's underrated overall.

Yeah man there's a lot interesting things that happened behind the scenes on these projects. I have some crazy stories, some amazing wins, some misses that haunt me to this day, and some overall dope stories in how these records came together. Definition of Real was particularly action packed...from the Jamie Foxx and Keisha Cole features to Wayne changing his release date to ours since he took "Who Hotter Than Me" personal (which led to the "A Milli" record where he took his "goon to a goblin"shot at Plies).

I agree with your line of thinking too...early days Ross were his best days. I never really gelled well with him personally. But his early albums hit. His early SNS stuff was rough on the ears though (i.e. "I'm Chillin"...that record was trash!).

 

[RozayCane]

Early thread of the year candidate.

 

[certifiedgoon]

Very interesting stuff. Regarding the Runners, I remember when they told me about the Hustlin record. They had finished producing Money on my mind for Lil Wayne and were excited about Hustlin. Mayne told me that it was going to be a game changer and he was right. A year later, I ran into the Runners and Dj Khaled while working with an artist named Bedo Turkoglu. The Runners and Khaled were working with Bedo with a song called "Money to the ceiling" and my team did "Luv Dat", which was originally supposed to go to Yung Joc but Bedo's manager, Tony Wilkins, insisted on that record. Tommie Hicks jr engineered the project with former Sony BMG A&R Victor Cade over seeing the project. Due to internal issues with the management and the label, Bedo's album was never released.

Aaah man, Tony Wilkins from Orlando! That man is a man that has his hands in everything! I was just talking about him a few weeks ago.

I really wanted to do more work with The Runners. Their sound just didn't work for Plies. I had them work on one record for me for Trina though. I had them sample "Pack Jam (Lookout)". So the plan here was to get Fergie on this (figured it would be a big record that could crossover Trina). I built a connection with Fergie and her people when I tried to get them to do a "My Humps" remix with her on it. They had JUST finished doing the remix with Lil Jon and it was too far down the line (mixed, Lil Jon was already paid, etc). They loved the idea though and decided they wanted to do a record with Trina. Fergie clearly had all the leverage but she was cool and we were going to do a straight swap...she do a record for Trina and Trina do one for her. Polow Da Don sent over "Where My Party People At"...that record was trash. Trina still did the verse, but that was a complete miss. We sent over the track The Runners did and they never sent back a verse or any vocals and went silent on the whole thing. Then they ultimately sold the other "Where My Party People At" record to Nelly. It was still a trash record and they tried to float it as a single and it failed. Nothing ever came of the beat The Runners did. It would have been a smash in the vein of a Missy Elliott "Lose Control".

 

[RozayCane]

Went to school in Tallahassee from 06-09.. when these 2 came on in the Moon and Chubbys or any club.. and with that liq in yo system.. whole club went crazy.. good times.

 

[certifiedgoon]

Went to school in Tallahassee from 06-09.. when these 2 came on in the Moon and Chubbys or any club.. and with that liq in yo system.. whole club went crazy.. good times.

Ah man The Moon! We shot the "Got Em Hatin" video up there at the FAMU Homecoming/Car Show (most of it...we finished the rest in Tampa) in '06. Nitti did that beat (Plies and I drove up to ATL to do that record with him)...also how we met Drumma Boy (literally ran up on my car in a parking lot outside the studio where we met with Tony Galvin...handed me a beat CD and business card)...which led to a good working relationship with him (Watch Dis being one of the records as well as Shawty, Plenty Money, I'm Da Man, I Chase Paper). Dat B*tch was produced by DVS, who I mentioned before was my homeboy from UM. So a fellow Cane is responsible for some of the classic beats on his albums (Runnin My Momma Crazy, Dat B*tch, Make A Movie, Heard of Me).

But at that shoot I had a big blow-up with Ted because he blew a huge promotion opportunity for us (being cheap as he always was). And hia misteps continued to cost us momentum and opportunities. I was about to walk away from it all and Plies basically talked me off the ledge...and two months later is when we got that call with the Shawty record.

But Tally was always an A market for us. We could do no wrong there.

 

[RozayCane]

Ah man The Moon! We shot the "Got Em Hatin" video up there at the FAMU Homecoming/Car Show (most of it...we finished the rest in Tampa) in '06. Nitti did that beat (Plies and I drove up to ATL to do that record with him)...also how we met Drumma Boy (literally ran up on my car in a parking lot outside the studio where we met with Tony Galvin...handed me a beat CD and business card)...which led to a good working relationship with him (Watch Dis being one of the records as well as Shawty, Plenty Money, I'm Da Man, I Chase Paper). Dat B*tch was produced by DVS, who I mentioned before was my homeboy from UM. So a fellow Cane is responsible for some of the classic beats on his albums (Runnin My Momma Crazy, Dat B*tch, Make A Movie, Heard of Me).

But at that shoot I had a big blow-up with Ted because he blew a huge promotion opportunity for us (being cheap as he always was). And hia misteps continued to cost us momentum and opportunities. I was about to walk away from it all and Plies basically talked me off the ledge...and two months later is when we got that call with the Shawty record.

But Tally was always an A market for us. We could do no wrong there.

Super Dope!! Appreciate the background bro.

 

[ageezy]

 

[cway313]

 

[BornAcaneDieAcane]

Aaah man, Tony Wilkins from Orlando! That man is a man that has his hands in everything! I was just talking about him a few weeks ago.

I really wanted to do more work with The Runners. Their sound just didn't work for Plies. I had them work on one record for me for Trina though. I had them sample "Pack Jam (Lookout)". So the plan here was to get Fergie on this (figured it would be a big record that could crossover Trina). I built a connection with Fergie and her people when I tried to get them to do a "My Humps" remix with her on it. They had JUST finished doing the remix with Lil Jon and it was too far down the line (mixed, Lil Jon was already paid, etc). They loved the idea though and decided they wanted to do a record with Trina. Fergie clearly had all the leverage but she was cool and we were going to do a straight swap...she do a record for Trina and Trina do one for her. Polow Da Don sent over "Where My Party People At"...that record was trash. Trina still did the verse, but that was a complete miss. We sent over the track The Runners did and they never sent back a verse or any vocals and went silent on the whole thing. Then they ultimately sold the other "Where My Party People At" record to Nelly. It was still a trash record and they tried to float it as a single and it failed. Nothing ever came of the beat The Runners did. It would have been a smash in the vein of a Missy Elliott "Lose Control".

Wow talk about a missed opportunity.
I haven't spoken to The Runners in ages but last I heard, they were producing pop records. As for Tony Wilkins, he is still active. He is managing a pop boy band called No Lonely Hearts.

 

[gogeta4]

Went to school in Tallahassee from 06-09.. when these 2 came on in the Moon and Chubbys or any club.. and with that liq in yo system.. whole club went crazy.. good times.

THAT B*TCH IS A SOUTH FLORIDA CLASSIC.

SONG STILL HAS TO GET PLAYED AT EVERY CLUB...CURRENTLY. IN BROWARD WE SPEED IT UP........ *CHEFS KISS*

 

[gogeta4]

Ah man The Moon! We shot the "Got Em Hatin" video up there at the FAMU Homecoming/Car Show (most of it...we finished the rest in Tampa) in '06. Nitti did that beat (Plies and I drove up to ATL to do that record with him)...also how we met Drumma Boy (literally ran up on my car in a parking lot outside the studio where we met with Tony Galvin...handed me a beat CD and business card)...which led to a good working relationship with him (Watch Dis being one of the records as well as Shawty, Plenty Money, I'm Da Man, I Chase Paper). Dat B*tch was produced by DVS, who I mentioned before was my homeboy from UM. So a fellow Cane is responsible for some of the classic beats on his albums (Runnin My Momma Crazy, Dat B*tch, Make A Movie, Heard of Me).

But at that shoot I had a big blow-up with Ted because he blew a huge promotion opportunity for us (being cheap as he always was). And hia misteps continued to cost us momentum and opportunities. I was about to walk away from it all and Plies basically talked me off the ledge...and two months later is when we got that call with the Shawty record.

But Tally was always an A market for us. We could do no wrong there.

seems like dvs did all the beats i liked from plies. dat b*tch and ruunnin my momma crazy are a1.

was yall plugged in tally with tjs djs ....he was a tastemaker sort of. I was on his list/message board in the early days as my best friend in high school produced some early miami jookin beats that blew up locall and tj added me and him to a list/message board sort of thing where we would get songs b4 released,etc.

 

[TrojanCane]

Yeah man there's a lot interesting things that happened behind the scenes on these projects. I have some crazy stories, some amazing wins, some misses that haunt me to this day, and some overall dope stories in how these records came together. Definition of Real was particularly action packed...from the Jamie Foxx and Keisha Cole features to Wayne changing his release date to ours since he took "Who Hotter Than Me" personal (which led to the "A Milli" record where he took his "goon to a goblin"shot at Plies).

I agree with your line of thinking too...early days Ross were his best days. I never really gelled well with him personally. But his early albums hit. His early SNS stuff was rough on the ears though (i.e. "I'm Chillin"...that record was trash!).

I was today years old when I learned the iconic "what's a goon to a goblin" was a shot at Plies. What's the backstory on the Wayne beef?

 

[certifiedgoon]

Wow talk about a missed opportunity.
I haven't spoken to The Runners in ages but last I heard, they were producing pop records. As for Tony Wilkins, he is still active. He is managing a pop boy band called No Lonely Hearts.

Yeah one of many. Can't win them all...but man some of these misses stung! And Tony is a cool dude. I keep up with him on FB still

 

[certifiedgoon]

seems like dvs did all the beats i liked from plies. dat b*tch and ruunnin my momma crazy are a1.

was yall plugged in tally with tjs djs ....he was a tastemaker sort of. I was on his list/message board in the early days as my best friend in high school produced some early miami jookin beats that blew up locall and tj added me and him to a list/message board sort of thing where we would get songs b4 released,etc.

DVS is dope. Him and his brother both grew up playing in the church so they were legit musicians too. Hi brother went on to play as a part of Black Violin when they toured with Jay-Z and Linkin Park.

TJs DJs was one of the main record pools that helped us get our music out in Florida/the South in the early days. Here's some history involving them. So back while I was still at SNS, Ric Ross (not that Ross, but a part of the Atlantic radio promotions team in Atlanta) brought Ted Lucas a record from this artist Citty Da Cookie Man called "Da Cookie Man". He said it was the hottest record in the streets in ATL. In typical Ted Lucas fashion, he "signs" them...but basically was charging them to use the logo and upcharging them on vinyl/promotion material costs to make money off of them. There was never an intenet to put any music out. However, I was interested in who produced the beat. His manager was B-Rich. B-Rich told me it was a group called The Klinic...two cousins that were 17 and 18 years old. I told him to get me more tracks from them. This is when he tells me they rap also.

So out of courtesy, I'm like let me here that too. Well he brings me the CD and I am floored. They sound like a young version of ATLiens era Outkast. This one record in particular called "Cloud 9" hooked me. I want to sign these guys bad. For nearly a year I am chasing and pleading Ted to sign them. And he was as aloof and oblivious to opportunity as always. Well, part of The Klinic is B.O.B. And Jim Jonsin got his hands on their music too (either via B-Rich or TJ Chapman). Jim felt like I felt and ended up signing B.O.B. to Rebel Rock...which also had distributiuon through Atlantic. Of course, Ted and I run into Jim, B-Rich, TJ and B.O.B. at Atlantic in NY where B-Rich tells Ted "we were trying to get down with you for so long".

Anyway, B.O.B. languished at Atlantic for a few years. They put out teaser record after teaser record, but nothing was working. So they put him under the Grand Hustle umbrella to try and use T.I.'s name weight to give him a lift. Still didn't work. But FINALLY things popped with "Nothing On You". Bruno Mars is obviously on the hook but that was co-written by Phillip Lawrence, who is his songwriting partner (alnong with Ari Levine). I gave Phillip Lawrence his first ever credit (songwriting and backkground vocals) on "You" off The Real Testament. Tank is the feature, but reality is Tank's vocals are the background vocals with Phillip's as lead. He just couldn't lay them as well. I wanted to sign Phillip BAAAAD! He was a crazy talented signer/songwriter. And he was literally a character actor at Disneyland at the time. Bruno was a call center agent. I chased this for a year. Plies and I were begging Gates to sign him to Big Gates Records. Phillip was desparate and a starvinng artist and was begging me. Well, Gates shoots it down and says he sounds too old (listening via prison phone call, go figure). Well Bruno goes on to global superstardom. Phillip co-writes all of his music and has god knows how many Grammys and Grammy Nominations and even does voice acting in Rio 2, among other things...which is pretty **** good for someone who sounds "too old" to someone sitting behind bars.