Dorsett one of Fastest in CFB

[Coach Macho]

What's with this notion that the middle of the field is so dangerous? There's a ton of plays to be had in the middle. That's where the slower defenders are.

 

[kmwcane]

What's with this notion that the middle of the field is so dangerous? There's a ton of plays to be had in the middle. That's where the slower defenders are.

Nothing wrong with attacking the middle of the field...... If you don't have an erratic QB that misses high when he misses. Last thing I would want is an erratic QB throwing across/over the part of the field with the most traffic.

 

[kmwcane]

He's a blazer, and anyone suggesting he is not an asset -in spite of his drops- is nuts. Dude is good for 1k; Coley is good for 1k; Duke should be good for 1k.

We have the potential to be LETHAL on offense.

We've had that potential for a few years now. I'm not 100% against Coley as a playcaller yet as its only year 2, but I am a bit concerned if he can make us that lethal offense.

That's a valid concern. Anyone not questioning Coley's play calling or ability to take us to an ELITE level is not paying attention. I am VERY interested in learning what Coley has learned from Jimbo over the years. Morris regressed under his watch. Is it because Fisch left, or because Coley aint good at developing QBs? Hmmmmm.

I wouldn't say Morris regressed; he was the exact same QB he was under Fisch. He just had a hot streak at the end of Fisch's last year which clouded many people's judgment as to what Stephen Morris really was/is as a QB.

 

[poncho0091]

He's a blazer, and anyone suggesting he is not an asset -in spite of his drops- is nuts. Dude is good for 1k; Coley is good for 1k; Duke should be good for 1k.

We have the potential to be LETHAL on offense.

We've had that potential for a few years now. I'm not 100% against Coley as a playcaller yet as its only year 2, but I am a bit concerned if he can make us that lethal offense.

That's a valid concern. Anyone not questioning Coley's play calling or ability to take us to an ELITE level is not paying attention. I am VERY interested in learning what Coley has learned from Jimbo over the years. Morris regressed under his watch. Is it because Fisch left, or because Coley aint good at developing QBs? Hmmmmm.

I wouldn't say Morris regressed; he was the exact same QB he was under Fisch. He just had a hot streak at the end of Fisch's last year which clouded many people's judgment as to what Stephen Morris really was/is as a QB.

I can agree on the hot streak, but what got a lot of people excited was how comfortable and confident Morris looked. He looked like he would be a leader in the offense and might take the next step. It makes me laugh how many people tried to say Morris's pocket presence based on last year was not good when that was actually one of his strengths according to all the scouts. The change in confidence and pocket presence this year was very noticeable. Not saying that excuses his performance this year, but he never looked like he was comfortable at all. I honestly believe that him and Coley just don't mesh.

 

[DirtyShirt]

He dropped a TD, I thew a beer can and my hat. Im still ****ed . He better fix it.

How many highlight tapes were made on Miamis middle of the field D ? Logan Thomas, Duke QB, Renner, etc etc

Coley cant hold Fischs cup

 

[fincane]

Coley's play-calling had nothing to do with Morris. Watch our offense and then watch other offenses around the nation and tell me if they look anything alike.

1st down - verticals
2nd down - run
3rd down - verticals

That's Coley's M.O.

I watched games with Fisch calling plays while Morris was the QB and that offense didn't feature a whole lot of attacking the middle of the field either. It certainly wasn't any more productive which is what actually matters. Not what the offense looks like.

What about this video is any different than what Coley was doing last year? Two coordinators, similar attack plans. Same QB.
[video=youtube;pFCZSD4IrQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCZSD4IrQA[/video]

The best part of going back and watching the 2012 stuff is watching all the WR screens that Fisch would call or Morris would check to. Multiple times on the same drive. The only difference is his never went for TDs so people didn't say he leaned on them too much

As you're watching the plays, you'll notice a lot of those are not streaks, a lot of them are deep hooks. He also used the short passing game a lot more than Coley does.

Plenty of them were streaks. Morris spent alot of time throwing vertical routes in 2012 too. Just like in 2013. There are plenty of clips for Morris in 2012 and 2013. Coley uses the deep out as opposed to the deep hook. Neither OC had him attack the middle of field, whether by design or Morris turning down the option. The short passing game really wasn't all that prevalent in either year. Coley used short crossers actually thrown behind the line of scrimmage sometimes to allow for blocking and playaction half rolls while Fisch would use RB screens/dumpoffs and 5 yard hooks. Either way the offense was sporadic both years.

What Fisch supposedly did here has become legend for whatever reason and its mostly because Whipple broke Jacory and he made him competent. It certainly shouldn't be for what he did with Morris.

 

[poncho0091]

Coley's play-calling had nothing to do with Morris. Watch our offense and then watch other offenses around the nation and tell me if they look anything alike.

1st down - verticals
2nd down - run
3rd down - verticals

That's Coley's M.O.

I watched games with Fisch calling plays while Morris was the QB and that offense didn't feature a whole lot of attacking the middle of the field either. It certainly wasn't any more productive which is what actually matters. Not what the offense looks like.

What about this video is any different than what Coley was doing last year? Two coordinators, similar attack plans. Same QB.
[video=youtube;pFCZSD4IrQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCZSD4IrQA[/video]

The best part of going back and watching the 2012 stuff is watching all the WR screens that Fisch would call or Morris would check to. Multiple times on the same drive. The only difference is his never went for TDs so people didn't say he leaned on them too much

As you're watching the plays, you'll notice a lot of those are not streaks, a lot of them are deep hooks. He also used the short passing game a lot more than Coley does.

Plenty of them were streaks. Morris spent alot of time throwing vertical routes in 2012 too. Just like in 2013. There are plenty of clips for Morris in 2012 and 2013. Coley uses the deep out as opposed to the deep hook. Neither OC had him attack the middle of field, whether by design or Morris turning down the option. The short passing game really wasn't all that prevalent in either year. Coley used short crossers actually thrown behind the line of scrimmage sometimes to allow for blocking and playaction half rolls while Fisch would use RB screens/dumpoffs and 5 yard hooks. Either way the offense was sporadic both years.

What Fisch supposedly did here has become legend for whatever reason and its mostly because Whipple broke Jacory and he made him competent. It certainly shouldn't be for what he did with Morris.

This video is literally only one game and in that game, yes there are some streaks. This game is also one of Morris's worst games of the season against a good VT defense (46% 170 yds). There is nothing wrong with some streaks. There is something wrong with sending all of the WRs on a streak for nearly 50% of our passing plays. Fisch's play calls hear are generally not 3-4 WRs running a streak. There is reasoning to this play calling. 1-2 WR over the top with another 1 or 2 hooking, crossing, slanting at various levels. There are actually quite a few deep crossing routes as well, but they did not get targeted.

In this video alone there are just as many hooks as streaks. There are tons of short dump passes to RB and WRs (things that Coley does not do enough of). There are a couple outs and screens There are a few TE crosses. I looked at all of the passing play calls from our WF game (I believe it was WF) last year and there were like 10 plays out of 28 attempts where all of our WR's run a streak.

There is nothing wrong a WR running a streak often, but you can't have all of them run a streak. There has to be other people doing various other things. That is the problem I have with Coley's playbook. More often than not, there are not other WRs doing other things. It's not just about the 1 WR who gets targeted, you have to notice what everyone else is doing. Coley only likes to use his TE on crossing routes or anything in the middle it seems to me. He doesn't use the RB at all in the receiving game either. Like I said, nearly half as many RB receptions under Coley compared to Fisch.

 

[fincane]

Coley's play-calling had nothing to do with Morris. Watch our offense and then watch other offenses around the nation and tell me if they look anything alike.

1st down - verticals
2nd down - run
3rd down - verticals

That's Coley's M.O.

I watched games with Fisch calling plays while Morris was the QB and that offense didn't feature a whole lot of attacking the middle of the field either. It certainly wasn't any more productive which is what actually matters. Not what the offense looks like.

What about this video is any different than what Coley was doing last year? Two coordinators, similar attack plans. Same QB.
[video=youtube;pFCZSD4IrQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCZSD4IrQA[/video]

The best part of going back and watching the 2012 stuff is watching all the WR screens that Fisch would call or Morris would check to. Multiple times on the same drive. The only difference is his never went for TDs so people didn't say he leaned on them too much

As you're watching the plays, you'll notice a lot of those are not streaks, a lot of them are deep hooks. He also used the short passing game a lot more than Coley does.

Plenty of them were streaks. Morris spent alot of time throwing vertical routes in 2012 too. Just like in 2013. There are plenty of clips for Morris in 2012 and 2013. Coley uses the deep out as opposed to the deep hook. Neither OC had him attack the middle of field, whether by design or Morris turning down the option. The short passing game really wasn't all that prevalent in either year. Coley used short crossers actually thrown behind the line of scrimmage sometimes to allow for blocking and playaction half rolls while Fisch would use RB screens/dumpoffs and 5 yard hooks. Either way the offense was sporadic both years.

What Fisch supposedly did here has become legend for whatever reason and its mostly because Whipple broke Jacory and he made him competent. It certainly shouldn't be for what he did with Morris.

This video is literally only one game and in that game, yes there are some streaks. This game is also one of Morris's worst games of the season against a good VT defense (46% 170 yds). There is nothing wrong with some streaks. There is something wrong with sending all of the WRs on a streak for nearly 50% of our passing plays. Fisch's play calls hear are generally not 3-4 WRs running a streak. There is reasoning to this play calling. 1-2 WR over the top with another 1 or 2 hooking, crossing, slanting at various levels. There are actually quite a few deep crossing routes as well, but they did not get targeted.

In this video alone there are just as many hooks as streaks. There are tons of short dump passes to RB and WRs (things that Coley does not do enough of). There are a couple outs and screens There are a few TE crosses. I looked at all of the passing play calls from our WF game (I believe it was WF) last year and there were like 10 plays out of 28 attempts where all of our WR's run a streak.

There is nothing wrong a WR running a streak often, but you can't have all of them run a streak. There has to be other people doing various other things. That is the problem I have with Coley's playbook. More often than not, there are not other WRs doing other things. It's not just about the 1 WR who gets targeted, you have to notice what everyone else is doing. Coley only likes to use his TE on crossing routes or anything in the middle it seems to me. He doesn't use the RB at all in the receiving game either. Like I said, nearly half as many RB receptions under Coley compared to Fisch.

Maybe you're focusing on one game to make your point. I don't see this outright dependence on all streaks that people keep talking about in last year's cutups.

The short passing game was directed towards the sideline. Hurns lived on catching an 8 yard stop route and picking up a first down. Straight dropbacks, half rolls, full rollouts. That is how they picked up easy yards.

Morris vs Virginia Tech in 2013.

[video=youtube;Z0t6-KxX1bw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0t6-KxX1bw[/video]

Morris vs USF

[video=youtube;o8Nt9K-EXo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Nt9K-EXo0[/video]

Morris vs Pitt

[video=youtube;Q1pwXCmRxuI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI[/video]

 

[BWCD]

The short passing game was directed towards the sideline. Hurns lived on catching an 8 yard stop route and picking up a first down. Straight dropbacks, half rolls, full rollouts. That is how they picked up easy yards.

OK...and where were those passes caught 99.9% of the time? Outside the hashes, that's where.

This is elementary school offense ****--only attacking 1 part of the field. Morris almost exclusively was going to that stop route you mentioned to Hurns, or he was throwing it down the field up the sideline (only other option really was the screen to Coley which is...outside the hash). The middle of the field in between the hashes was rarely attacked with consistency last season. The question has always been was it Morris or Coley? Well, it's a little of both.

I think Coley (and Fisch, to a point) liked those throws for Morris from one hash to the other sideline because of how he could drive the football w/his arm. They probably didn't like the shorter/intermediate stuff (unless it was a WR Screen) because it meant Morris had to put touch on the ball--which wasn't a strength of his.
I also saw guys sitting in a zone 10-15 yards downfield that Morris would miss due to loading up a deep ball against double-coverage. He did that more than he should have (but not as much as Japicky did).

The good news is, if Olsen or Kaaya can get their **** together--I think we'll have a more versatile QB when it comes to what routes we can have available to throw to. "Arm talent" is a term thrown around loosely where people think it only means arm strength...but it more accurately means being able to make any throw at any time, and throw either a lob or a fastball when it's needed, and everywhere in between. Morris had "arm strength", Olsen and Kaaya have "arm talent".

Now...the question is: will Coley adapt his offense to allow for more complicated route combinations, since we (hopefully) have a QB who can throw to every type of route effectively? I don't know the answer to that. I don't have confidence in that happening, but I hope so.

 

[poncho0091]

I watched games with Fisch calling plays while Morris was the QB and that offense didn't feature a whole lot of attacking the middle of the field either. It certainly wasn't any more productive which is what actually matters. Not what the offense looks like.

What about this video is any different than what Coley was doing last year? Two coordinators, similar attack plans. Same QB.
[video=youtube;pFCZSD4IrQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCZSD4IrQA[/video]

The best part of going back and watching the 2012 stuff is watching all the WR screens that Fisch would call or Morris would check to. Multiple times on the same drive. The only difference is his never went for TDs so people didn't say he leaned on them too much

As you're watching the plays, you'll notice a lot of those are not streaks, a lot of them are deep hooks. He also used the short passing game a lot more than Coley does.

Plenty of them were streaks. Morris spent alot of time throwing vertical routes in 2012 too. Just like in 2013. There are plenty of clips for Morris in 2012 and 2013. Coley uses the deep out as opposed to the deep hook. Neither OC had him attack the middle of field, whether by design or Morris turning down the option. The short passing game really wasn't all that prevalent in either year. Coley used short crossers actually thrown behind the line of scrimmage sometimes to allow for blocking and playaction half rolls while Fisch would use RB screens/dumpoffs and 5 yard hooks. Either way the offense was sporadic both years.

What Fisch supposedly did here has become legend for whatever reason and its mostly because Whipple broke Jacory and he made him competent. It certainly shouldn't be for what he did with Morris.

This video is literally only one game and in that game, yes there are some streaks. This game is also one of Morris's worst games of the season against a good VT defense (46% 170 yds). There is nothing wrong with some streaks. There is something wrong with sending all of the WRs on a streak for nearly 50% of our passing plays. Fisch's play calls hear are generally not 3-4 WRs running a streak. There is reasoning to this play calling. 1-2 WR over the top with another 1 or 2 hooking, crossing, slanting at various levels. There are actually quite a few deep crossing routes as well, but they did not get targeted.

In this video alone there are just as many hooks as streaks. There are tons of short dump passes to RB and WRs (things that Coley does not do enough of). There are a couple outs and screens There are a few TE crosses. I looked at all of the passing play calls from our WF game (I believe it was WF) last year and there were like 10 plays out of 28 attempts where all of our WR's run a streak.

There is nothing wrong a WR running a streak often, but you can't have all of them run a streak. There has to be other people doing various other things. That is the problem I have with Coley's playbook. More often than not, there are not other WRs doing other things. It's not just about the 1 WR who gets targeted, you have to notice what everyone else is doing. Coley only likes to use his TE on crossing routes or anything in the middle it seems to me. He doesn't use the RB at all in the receiving game either. Like I said, nearly half as many RB receptions under Coley compared to Fisch.

Maybe you're focusing on one game to make your point. I don't see this outright dependence on all streaks that people keep talking about in last year's cutups.

The short passing game was directed towards the sideline. Hurns lived on catching an 8 yard stop route and picking up a first down. Straight dropbacks, half rolls, full rollouts. That is how they picked up easy yards.

Morris vs Virginia Tech in 2013.

[video=youtube;Z0t6-KxX1bw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0t6-KxX1bw[/video]

Morris vs USF

[video=youtube;o8Nt9K-EXo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Nt9K-EXo0[/video]

Morris vs Pitt

[video=youtube;Q1pwXCmRxuI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI[/video]

That's exactly the problem though. I mentioned earlier already that playcalling looked decent at times, but never more than maybe a quarter in about 3-4 games. Any respectable DC is going to load the box with LB's spread wide for a run first read and then make sure he has guys deep for the bomb and guys to the sidelines for anything outside the hashmarks. There's no point in worrying about a rb running right up the middle, because we don't do it much under Coley unless it's a FB. We just run outside with Duke everytime on the same slant every time it seems like.

Watching the Pitt and VT videos we pretty much never used the middle of the field. combined between them I saw a WR between the hashmarks maybe 10-15 times between the 2 videos. Not a TE, not a RB, but a WR. This is us talking about around 60 passing plays and 3-4 WR on most plays. By doing this we are limiting our WR by giving them less space to work and going into a competent DC's obvious coverage, because he knows we're not using the middle. You have slow *** LB's covering mid field if its a zone and you need to exploit that. You have space in the midfield for man coverage and you need to exploit that (assuming the lb is not also playing in a zone or his coverage is on someone near the middle). At the very least, there should be at least 1 WR crossing or cutting somewhere between the hashmarks on at least half of your passing plays just to keep the defense honest.

I feel like I watched the same routes over and over again. TE's 65% of the time are doing a hook somewhere between 5-10 yards right outside of the hashmarks. Receivers running streaks, outs or hooks to the sidelines 90% of the time. The only time I see someone between the hashmarks is a rb coming from the backfield on some sort of delay or some short route as a last resort, rarely as a primary or even a secondary. Maybe 4-5 plays each game where a WR actually crosses between the hashmarks. Occasionally a TE somewhere in the middle.

It's just too predictable. Watching Coley's offense most of the time is the same way I felt when watching our defense when this staff came in. If my couch potato *** knows what's about to happen, the defense knows what's about to happen.

 

[Coach Macho]

Don't really care who the QB is, all I know is, our offense looks nothing like the other offenses I see o Saturdays. Shoot, it doesn't even look like the offense we had at Western. The **** looks elementary.

A crisp offense puts defenders in a bind. You attack certain areas of the field and you put the defender who's in charger of that that area in a bind. If you want to attack the flat defender then you run a route to the flats at 3 yards and another route behind his head at 8 to 10. If he sinks you throw the 3 yard "arrow" route and turn upfield for a 6 to 8 yard gain. If he jumps the short flat route you throw behind his head to the deep-out route. It's called "high lowing" a defender. You can do the same thing to the inside backers. This is what a good intermediate passing game looks like. This is what the good offenses do. WE DON'T DO ANY OF THIS.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

I'm not he X's and O's maven that some guys here are but, I thought 4 verts was used to beat quarters coverage not cover 3.

Am I wrong and have it backwards or not even close at all?

 

[BWCD]

I'm not he X's and O's maven that some guys here are but, I thought 4 verts was used to beat quarters coverage not cover 3.

Am I wrong and have it backwards or not even close at all?

4 verts would beat Cover 3 a lot easier, because you could read the middle deep-third defender, and opposite of whichever way he goes--you have 2 verts on a single defender...then you pick where to throw based on where the defender is on that side (throw the inside vert if the outside is covered, and vice versa).

With 4 verts against a quarters coverage, you have 4 on 4, or worse if CB's/LB's have man responsibilities and run with the verts.

What you're describing is very elementary, though. Instead of "4 verts", route combinations have to come into play. You should never send WR's out into patterns without a plan to play off of each route ran...which gives the QB options and puts pressure on defenders--no matter what the coverage. Very much like what Wildcat said above--high-low concepts, rub route concepts, bunch formations with 3 levels of routes, zone/man option routes, etc...

Someone queue the "this **** ain't checkers, it's chess" Denzel Washington .gif--Coley has to understand that.

 

[poncho0091]

I'm not he X's and O's maven that some guys here are but, I thought 4 verts was used to beat quarters coverage not cover 3.

Am I wrong and have it backwards or not even close at all?

4 verts would beat Cover 3 a lot easier, because you could read the middle deep-third defender, and opposite of whichever way he goes--you have 2 verts on a single defender...then you pick where to throw based on where the defender is on that side (throw the inside vert if the outside is covered, and vice versa).

With 4 verts against a quarters coverage, you have 4 on 4, or worse if CB's/LB's have man responsibilities and run with the verts.

What you're describing is very elementary, though. Instead of "4 verts", route combinations have to come into play. You should never send WR's out into patterns without a plan to play off of each route ran...which gives the QB options and puts pressure on defenders--no matter what the coverage. Very much like what Wildcat said above--high-low concepts, rub route concepts, bunch formations with 3 levels of routes, zone/man option routes, etc...

Someone queue the "this **** ain't checkers, it's chess" Denzel Washington .gif--Coley has to understand that.

Exactly, it never felt like there was any real plan or offensive scheming. It looked like hey lets run this play, because that's what I like.

 

[Coach Macho]

I'm not he X's and O's maven that some guys here are but, I thought 4 verts was used to beat quarters coverage not cover 3.

Am I wrong and have it backwards or not even close at all?

Opposite.

Quarters is a perfect coverage for 4 verts.

In Cover-3 the seams are wide open against 4 verts.