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Did Randy Shannon help TCU land JuJuan Story?

Just because Randy isn't here anymore doesn't mean we have to rip him for everything. He DID suck at roster management and he failed to develop guys. These are pretty self-evident facts that even the most loyal Shannonites (myself included) had to admit in their heart of hearts while Randy was here. He also, one has to admit, brought in talent. He wasn't perfect, but he didn't "suck" at recruiting...recruiting means you get talent on campus. Period. After that is when he had the majority of his problems. Let's not rewrite history.
 
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Where's that thread on our classes that demonstrated how many of our commits left, never made it here, or never saw the field?

Revisit that thread and then tell me again how Shannon was a great recruiter.
 
CaneInsideHer said:
Where's that thread on our classes that demonstrated how many of our commits left, never made it here, or never saw the field?

Revisit that thread and then tell me again how Shannon was a great recruiter.
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You can do that with every class... He was only here for 4 years and not everyone is going to see the field. This is Golden second year... How many of his recruits actually contributed last year out of that class. I'm not talking about taking a few snaps... Every school has non qualifyers and people who transfer out. Golden had his share during his first recruiting year and I'll assume he'll have more besides Davis... I mean getting players drafted and making rosters pretty much refutes those comments of him being a bad recruiter. There were other issues that contributed to his failure... We have players being invited to camps and becoming rotation players in the league and we claim that he can't recruit... Come on now... The guy failed as an HC... He was a first time HC and his performance resembled that, but everything he did wasnt bad...
 
I have no problems with saying that Randy was disorganized, an ineffective communicator, a poor developer of talent, overly stubborn, etc. But being bad in certain areas (albeit enough areas that he could be considered a failure) doesn't make you bad in all areas. Recruiting means bringing talent in to the program. Period. The man brought talent in to the program.

Were you guys all ****ed when we signed up JAcory and Aldarious? No, you were excited. It was once on campus that they sucked. Or, for a better example or difficult recruits, were you ****ed about CJ Holton and Arthur Brown? No. The anger is that they were misused / mismanged in their time at UM. He had some reaches but so does every coach...it is part of the game. If Tallman and Plein had been developed in to serviceable players there would be no complaints about taking them. So the problem is in development, not recruiting. That is why we were mediocre and why Randy was fired.
 
Yeah, no. Radio sucked as a recruiter. Getting 4/5 top end athletes per year at Miami is NOT an amazing feat. ****, even through the worst part of our probation we were producing 1st round picks on the reg. He sucked because he was an awful evaluator (outside of obvious 5/4 star kids) and was unable to properly complete his roster.
 
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Randy's lone crime against Miami, IMO, was simply not knowing any better despite being apart of the greatness of the program. Prime example was hiring people with much less experience than him...that right there could be the end result for every negative thing you could say about recruiting during his head coaching tenure. He put Clint Hurtt and then Aubrey Hill in charge of recruiting and put Mike Barrow in a premier recruiting position (two guys straight from high school and one fresh off an internship) and it was ultimately one of his most damning pieces of evidence used against him.

As for his recruiting during his DC and position corch days...he's got hits, and he's got misses. Some guys Shannon handpicked and recruited...Eric Houston, Adewale Ojomo, Chavez Grant, and Josh Holmes. Just saying.

I think a lot of people think Randy is a good recruiter more in theory than in practice. IMO, he's not a great recruiter by results, especially recently...but theoretically, he's good.

I think it'd be good for Randy to get back to grassroots type, hitting the recruiting trail and just getting back to focusing on football, linebackers, and the simplicity of the game. The macro stuff was way too much for him.
 
I remember getting into it on canestime with folks the day he was hired. Everyone predicted he'd get every top black recruit in the country lulz.
 
Ethnicsands said:
I remember getting into it on canestime with folks the day he was hired. Everyone predicted he'd get every top black recruit in the country lulz.
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And the 08 class didn't help your argument when he puts uber-God fearing Mike Barrow on the evangelical Brown family, Ramon Buchanan...but after that...
 
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cowboycane said:
I have no problems with saying that Randy was disorganized, an ineffective communicator, a poor developer of talent, overly stubborn, etc. But being bad in certain areas (albeit enough areas that he could be considered a failure) doesn't make you bad in all areas. Recruiting means bringing talent in to the program. Period. The man brought talent in to the program.

Were you guys all ****ed when we signed up JAcory and Aldarious? No, you were excited. It was once on campus that they sucked. Or, for a better example or difficult recruits, were you ****ed about CJ Holton and Arthur Brown? No. The anger is that they were misused / mismanged in their time at UM. He had some reaches but so does every coach...it is part of the game. If Tallman and Plein had been developed in to serviceable players there would be no complaints about taking them. So the problem is in development, not recruiting. That is why we were mediocre and why Randy was fired.
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Its not hard to bring some talent to Miami. He left Golden with McGee, Chambers, Payne, Rodgers at CB. Look who was at DT and S. **** even LB. Chick had to play nearly every snap at DE as a true freshman. An average recruiter at Miami doesn't leave the gaping holes in the roster like Shannon did. The more I think about it the more I'm shocked how a defensive coach could bomb defensive recruiting like he did here.
 
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lauderdaleballer said:
CaneInsideHer said:
Where's that thread on our classes that demonstrated how many of our commits left, never made it here, or never saw the field?

Revisit that thread and then tell me again how Shannon was a great recruiter.
Click to expand...

You can do that with every class... He was only here for 4 years and not everyone is going to see the field. This is Golden second year... How many of his recruits actually contributed last year out of that class. I'm not talking about taking a few snaps... Every school has non qualifyers and people who transfer out. Golden had his share during his first recruiting year and I'll assume he'll have more besides Davis... I mean getting players drafted and making rosters pretty much refutes those comments of him being a bad recruiter. There were other issues that contributed to his failure... We have players being invited to camps and becoming rotation players in the league and we claim that he can't recruit... Come on now... The guy failed as an HC... He was a first time HC and his performance resembled that, but everything he did wasnt bad...
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List some things football related that Shannon did well in his 4 years here.
 
He wasn't intelligent enough to lead a program. I think it's that simple.
 
LOL- this is Miami- we should be able to produce 1st round LB talent and Randy's class of LBs from 2010 will likely have a grand total of zero guys who play in the league. Cain, Williams, Gaines are elite guys now? I've heard it all....
 
Larry said:
Ethnicsands said:
I remember getting into it on canestime with folks the day he was hired. Everyone predicted he'd get every top black recruit in the country lulz.
Click to expand...

And the 08 class didn't help your argument when he puts uber-God fearing Mike Barrow on the evangelical Brown family, Ramon Buchanan...but after that...
Click to expand...

I like Barrow as a recruiter, but it aint like LSU's class was full of white kids. The racial angle never made sense. For every kid randy won because of his ace, he lost some other kids because of his persona.
 
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japancane said:
LOL- this is Miami- we should be able to produce 1st round LB talent and Randy's class of LBs from 2010 will likely have a grand total of zero guys who play in the league. Cain, Williams, Gaines are elite guys now? I've heard it all....
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Don't sleep on these guys. Can laugh at it now. Just remember this about 3 years from now when they are all on NFL rosters.
 
cowboycane said:
I have no problems with saying that Randy was disorganized, an ineffective communicator, a poor developer of talent, overly stubborn, etc. But being bad in certain areas (albeit enough areas that he could be considered a failure) doesn't make you bad in all areas. Recruiting means bringing talent in to the program. Period. The man brought talent in to the program.

Were you guys all ****ed when we signed up JAcory and Aldarious? No, you were excited. It was once on campus that they sucked. Or, for a better example or difficult recruits, were you ****ed about CJ Holton and Arthur Brown? No. The anger is that they were misused / mismanged in their time at UM. He had some reaches but so does every coach...it is part of the game. If Tallman and Plein had been developed in to serviceable players there would be no complaints about taking them. So the problem is in development, not recruiting. That is why we were mediocre and why Randy was fired.
Click to expand...


of all those guys you mentioned, the only one i would refer to as a "talent" is arthur brown. He did bring in jacory and aldarious (whom we all perceived as talents at the time), but those guys were from UM's primary feeder school. you can't cite MNW as the example of talented recruiting for UM's head coach; that's cherry picking.
 
I think we all can agree that being a great communicator is the top requirement for being a great recruiter.
And I think we all can agree that Randy had really poor communication skills.
By virtue of this Randy was not a good recruiter.
By virtue of the lack of talent and depth Golden inherited supports that he wasn't.
By virtue of being in the most talented region in the nation for producing NFL players, any coach no matter how bad of a coach/recruiter he is would send players to the NFL as a Miami HC. Sending some 3rd, 4th 6th rounders is nothing to really brag about at Miami. If anything that's an embarrassment. But we have Shannonnettes hyping that up and making NFL rosters as practice squad players as proof Shannon was a great recruiter.. GTFOH with that.
 
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Cityboy4life82 said:
Randy is a monster recruiter when he only has to select a few players. He closes the deal.
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This is quite the urban legend that Shannon fluffers LOVE throwing around. The key take home is, Randy was a decent recruiter, but he wass RARELY assigned to OOS big timers. He was usally assigned the MDC kids. What was one OOS big time recruit he landed as the principle recruiter?
 
AUcane said:
Cityboy4life82 said:
Randy is a monster recruiter when he only has to select a few players. He closes the deal.
Click to expand...

This is quite the urban legend that Shannon fluffers LOVE throwing around. The key take home is, Randy was a decent recruiter, but he wass RARELY assigned to OOS big timers. He was usally assigned the MDC kids. What was one OOS big time recruit he landed as the principle recruiter?
Click to expand...

Leon Williams?
 
cowboycane said:
Were you guys all ****ed when we signed up JAcory and Aldarious? No, you were excited.
Click to expand...

So your argument was that Shannon's evaluation skills were as good as the common layperson? Don't you think he should be held to a higher standard? Or are all of us getting paid millions of dollars to coach D1-A football?

The job of the head coach is to be a superior evaluator and to not only successfully identify talent, but identify and develop talent relative to his unique offensive and defensive schemes. The fact that the average Joe Shmoe off the street agreed with Shannon's decisions at the time does not mean those decisions were solid from an advanced coaching perspective. Otherwise, give me a mill and I'll tell you which recruits I think are good.
 
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