Defensive adjustments

[FG305]

The increases in talent may help us just out talent some teams, but I dont think its going to do anything vs the good teams

We need All-World talent for that and we dont have that type of a roster

I didn't realize they had all world talent at temple.

Temple didn't face any All-World offenses, either.

 

[Consigliere]

The increases in talent may help us just out talent some teams, but I dont think its going to do anything vs the good teams

We need All-World talent for that and we dont have that type of a roster

I didn't realize they had all world talent at temple.

Temple didn't face any All-World offenses, either.

This can be debated to death and is a waste of time IMO (this Temple Stuff). We know the following...

1. Temple HAD NO program and was thrown out of the big yeast.

2. Al didn't have elite talent at Temple and the talent was not the best in the conference.

3. Al never won the conference at Temple, just the division. He did get them to a bowl game though and his best win was probably in 2010 against UConn (Big East Champs that year).

So in review. Temple sucked and had no program. Temple never was the best in recruiting or top of the MAC (i.e. Temple Talent). Al never won the MAC during his tenure either. He turned Temple into a decent program from nothing, he made them competitive in the MAC but never won the conference. Al left Temple a long time ago, he is now here and he is being judged SOLELY by his UM tenure.

 

[Ibis]

The increases in talent may help us just out talent some teams, but I dont think its going to do anything vs the good teams

We need All-World talent for that and we dont have that type of a roster

I didn't realize they had all world talent at temple.

They didn't have all world talent at Temple. They didn't have a single 4 star on the entire roster. They had one or two 3 stars on the roster. The majority of the roster consisted of 2 stars or lower.

The schemezzz is going to be just fine. The defense was ranked 116th in 2012. The defense ranked 85th last year but sacks and turnovers were way up compared to 2012. The defense is only going to get better especially with this past recruiting class.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Some comments from a MSU fan after Narduzzi's third year at MSU.

This is the defense MSU continuously goes to. It is our bread and butter defense. It might work if we had 3 copies of Greg Jones at LB, but of course we do not. This is the defensive scheme that allowed Minnesota's bad offense to go for 500 yards, Purdue's offense to go for 500 yards, Central Michigan to go over 400, Notre Dame to get over 400, Wisconsin to go over 400, Michigan to put the game into OT, and Northwestern to nickel and dime us all day.
This is what Pat Narduzzi calls, this is what he likes, this is what he wants. This is why I want him fired. Promoted. Or Demoted. In any event, we need a new defensive coordinator if MSU is ever going to be better than a 6-6 mediocre Big Ten team.

The point is that there was no indication at that time that Narduzzi would ever produce a great defense - or even a good one. The last three years they have been great, but in 2009 that was tough to imagine.

That's not to say D'Ononfrio has it in him to do the same. I don't think he does, but he's going to have this year to prove most people wrong - including myself. I'm not expecting much.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that producing crappy results means you will be much better later. I think it usually works out that you will continue to produce crappy results. I believe Narduzzi is the exception that makes people uneasy about the rule.

This guy gets it.

You can't just look at the past 3 years and say unequivocally that things can't get better just like Michigan State fans thought after 4 years of Narduzzi.
What the Michigan State case shows is that IT TAKES TIME to implement a defense and that changing schemes or firing coaches is not always the best route to take. Michigan State would have been justified in firing Narduzzi after his 4th season. Thank goodness for them rational thinking prevailed.

 

[FG305]

The increases in talent may help us just out talent some teams, but I dont think its going to do anything vs the good teams

We need All-World talent for that and we dont have that type of a roster

I didn't realize they had all world talent at temple.

They didn't have all world talent at Temple. They didn't have a single 4 star on the entire roster. They had one or two 3 stars on the roster. The majority of the roster consisted of 2 stars or lower.

The schemezzz is going to be just fine. The defense was ranked 116th in 2012. The defense ranked 85th last year but sacks and turnovers were way up compared to 2012. The defense is only going to get better especially with this past recruiting class.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Golden had his best D in 2010 (#16) but fellow MAC member Kent State finished with a higher ranked defense (#10)

It's all about the offenses that both teams faced.

 

[Consigliere]

You can't just look at the past 3 years and say unequivocally that things can't get better just like Michigan State fans thought after 4 years of Narduzzi.
What the Michigan State case shows is that IT TAKES TIME to implement a defense and that changing schemes or firing coaches is not always the best route to take. Michigan State would have been justified in firing Narduzzi after his 4th season. Thank goodness for them rational thinking prevailed.

What is your point? Seriously. Like I said, let's assume this is true (I am not going to analyze MSU between 2007-2010) does this mean everyone should be given 4 years. Does Patrick Nix need 4 years?

I am not trying to be a jerk. One coach was given the opportunity to be something for 4 years and it worked, mazel tov. That doesn't imply that we can throw out all trend analysis and give each DC a 4th year.

 

[Supercane85]

Good thing Michigan State stuck with Narduzzi after 4 years not showing any marked improvement from the prior 4 years before he was hired.
It took him until his 5th year for him to get Mich State into a top defense nationally and haven't looked back.
Why did it take him 5 years if talent based on recruiting rankings didn't really improve. Scheme was about the same the first 4 years compared to the 5th and beyond. ANyone have answers?

His defense finished

#2 2013
#4 2012
#6 2011

Did you confuse him with someone else?

 

[Bigtip]

Good thing Michigan State stuck with Narduzzi after 4 years not showing any marked improvement from the prior 4 years before he was hired.
It took him until his 5th year for him to get Mich State into a top defense nationally and haven't looked back.
Why did it take him 5 years if talent based on recruiting rankings didn't really improve. Scheme was about the same the first 4 years compared to the 5th and beyond. ANyone have answers?

His defense finished

#2 2013
#4 2012
#6 2011

Did you confuse him with someone else?

LOL at any idiot comparing this guy to the F.A.G./Dorito duo.

going from 116th to 85th isnt progress you ******* retards. it shows gross incompetence by this staff

 

[LuCane]

The increases in talent may help us just out talent some teams, but I dont think its going to do anything vs the good teams

We need All-World talent for that and we dont have that type of a roster

I didn't realize they had all world talent at temple.

To his point, they weren't playing against the type of talent we will face. When they faced superior talent, they mostly failed. The biggest question right now is what we will do, consistently, when we face teams with equal or superior talent?

It's a fair question.

 

[Bigtip]

also, it has been shown using real data that the "improvement" was really a facade created by a weaker OOC schedule. we were the exact same defense vs the ACC schedule

 

[Consigliere]

Good thing Michigan State stuck with Narduzzi after 4 years not showing any marked improvement from the prior 4 years before he was hired.
It took him until his 5th year for him to get Mich State into a top defense nationally and haven't looked back.
Why did it take him 5 years if talent based on recruiting rankings didn't really improve. Scheme was about the same the first 4 years compared to the 5th and beyond. ANyone have answers?

His defense finished

#2 2013
#4 2012
#6 2011

Did you confuse him with someone else?

Pat Narduzzi was named DC in 2007. 2011 was his 5th season (07, 08, 09, 10 and 11) at MSU.

 

[PUNCICANE]

from espn:

Happy St. Patrick’s Day, everyone, especially to the following, who have been down on their luck lately:


3. Miami defensive coordinator Mark D’Onofrio: His defense is looking for a pot of gold, but Miami fans can’t even find the rainbow. D’Onofrio has unofficially replaced former Virginia Tech offensive coordinator Bryan Stinespring as the coordinator fans love to hate. In eight conference games, Miami managed 12 sacks and ranked last in total defense, No. 12 in scoring defense and No. 13 in rushing defense. The Hurricanes were statistically worse in scoring defense and rushing defense in ACC play in 2013 and only had three more sacks than a year ago. Mark, “May the road rise up to meet you / May the wind always be at your back / May your defense find the quarterbacks / and remember how to get a sack.”

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Good thing Michigan State stuck with Narduzzi after 4 years not showing any marked improvement from the prior 4 years before he was hired.
It took him until his 5th year for him to get Mich State into a top defense nationally and haven't looked back.
Why did it take him 5 years if talent based on recruiting rankings didn't really improve. Scheme was about the same the first 4 years compared to the 5th and beyond. ANyone have answers?

His defense finished

#2 2013
#4 2012
#6 2011

Did you confuse him with someone else?

Pat Narduzzi was named DC in 2007. 2011 was his 5th season (07, 08, 09, 10 and 11) at MSU.

Even when you go back to where he started

2007- 31
2008- 59
2009- 73
2010- 43
2011- 6
2012- 4
2013- 2

He still was put out better defenses with less talent.

Not for his first 4 years he didn't.. His defenses actually got progressively worse from 2007-2009.
At that point what SIGNS did Narduzzi show that he would even be able to field a top 5 defense? None that's what.

 

[Supercane85]

Good thing Michigan State stuck with Narduzzi after 4 years not showing any marked improvement from the prior 4 years before he was hired.
It took him until his 5th year for him to get Mich State into a top defense nationally and haven't looked back.
Why did it take him 5 years if talent based on recruiting rankings didn't really improve. Scheme was about the same the first 4 years compared to the 5th and beyond. ANyone have answers?

His defense finished

#2 2013
#4 2012
#6 2011

Did you confuse him with someone else?

Pat Narduzzi was named DC in 2007. 2011 was his 5th season (07, 08, 09, 10 and 11) at MSU.

Even when you go back to where he started

2007- 31
2008- 59
2009- 73
2010- 43
2011- 6
2012- 4
2013- 2

He still was put out better defenses with less talent.

Not for his first 4 years he didn't.. His defenses actually got progressively worse from 2007-2009.
At that point what SIGNS did Narduzzi show that he would even be able to field a top 5 defense? None that's what.

Pat Narduzzi was named DC in 2007. 2011 was his 5th season (07, 08, 09, 10 and 11) at MSU.[/QUOTE]

Even when you go back to when Pat Narduzzi started

2007- 31
2008- 59
2009- 73
2010- 43
2011- 6
2012- 4
2013- 2

Pat Narduzzi still put out better defenses with less talent.


Miami Prior to Golden/Coach D'onfrio. Even with poor teams our former DC of Walton, Lovett and Bill Young had better defenses

2007- 33
2008- 26
2009- 29
2010- 22

Look at the drop off as soon as Golden and D'onfrio arrive

2011- 45
2012- 120
2013- 90

 

[CaneAlmighty]

You can't just look at the past 3 years and say unequivocally that things can't get better just like Michigan State fans thought after 4 years of Narduzzi.
What the Michigan State case shows is that IT TAKES TIME to implement a defense and that changing schemes or firing coaches is not always the best route to take. Michigan State would have been justified in firing Narduzzi after his 4th season. Thank goodness for them rational thinking prevailed.

What is your point? Seriously. Like I said, let's assume this is true (I am not going to analyze MSU between 2007-2010) does this mean everyone should be given 4 years. Does Patrick Nix need 4 years?

I am not trying to be a jerk. One coach was given the opportunity to be something for 4 years and it worked, mazel tov. That doesn't imply that we can throw out all trend analysis and give each DC a 4th year.

The point is IT TAKES TIME to know if the DC SUCKS or If eventually HE'll prove to be a good.
You guys are already sold that D'onforio sucks just like you probably would have been sold that with Narduzzi that best Michigan State defenses would be would be average at best.
Next season and after will tell us.. That's why these posts about changing schemes and firing D'onofrio are pointless now.

 

[Consigliere]

Supercane85,

I am not the one making the claim or analyzing the MSU defense. I am just saying that 2011 was his 5th season coaching the defense. I think this example doesn't prove anything other than MSU's defense over the last X years.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Pat Narduzzi still put out better defenses with less talent.

Why did it take him 5 years though? I've asked this but no one seems to be able to provide a solid answer.

Why were his defenses regressing his first 3 years?

Should he have changed schemes?
Should he have been fired?

 

[cowboycane]

Pat Narduzzi still put out better defenses with less talent.

Why did it take him 5 years though? I've asked this but no one seems to be able to provide a solid answer.

Why were his defenses regressing his first 3 years?

Should he have changed schemes?
Should he have been fired?

Better question: did his defense not only struggle, but do so in a manner that caused even THE MOST LOYAL members of his fan base to want to claw their eyes out with a cold soup spoon?

 

[rok]

Anyone who expects our defense under godlen/dorito to ever be elite is a real piece of ****

 

[cane305]

this Golden turned Temple from garbage to mediocre argument is invalid.

for this simple reason:

this ain't temple. This is University of Miami. we are supposedly the U, the ones who invented swagger, the ones with five national titles.

we are looking for coaches and players that can take us to the top, not to the mediocre levels.

if you can't do it, you should be fired.