MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

[TheOriginalCane]

Haven't been able to read it yet ... just some comments on Warchant from one guy who has. From comments it is well written and potentially deadly for the ACC. It points out clearly that the ESPN media deal existed BEFORE any GOR and cites ESPN media documents that were the binding documents for the ACC and NONE of them required establishing a GOR. It appears that the GOR was a purely fabricated device initiated BY the ACC leadership in an attempt to create a large financial penalty for any school that wanted to leave. The GOR might just have well been written on Charmin!! Paints the ACC leadership as basically orchestrating fraud to keep the conference in tact in order for the leadership to extract exorbitant salaries rather than provide services for the member institutions.

I have spoken about this factor in the past. I have some industry experience in this, as there is a fundamental difference between the TRUE PERMANENT transfer of media rights, and the "temporary" grouping of media rights for the purpose of executing a media contract.

In the TRUE PERMANENT example, you would have a sanctioning body (say, NASCAR) go out and acquire all of the media rights from all of the racetracks who otherwise had the individual rights to strke their own individual TV deals, then you would pay them valuable consideration, and once you owned all of the media rights outright, forever, and permanently, you could go out and negotiate a lucrative TV deal with, say, Fox, and get way more money collectively than you could ever get on an individual basis.

On the other hand, prior to the "rise" of NCAA "grant of rights" agreements, conferences had been negotiating TV deals for decades. There was nothing new under the sun. No conference team had the right or ability to go out and negotiate an INDIVIDUAL deal with a rival network to broadcast one team's conference games separate from the rest of the conference. Nope, the "grant of rights", such as it was, only fulfilled a minor administrative role (TV contracts now only required the signature of the conference commissioner instead of 15 individual university presidents)...and...OH, the REAL reason behind GORs, which was the disguised and MASSIVE secondary penalty for leaving the conference.

There is not, and never has been, an independent and media-rights-based reason for signing a Grant of Rights for an entire conference. And as a result, there can be a sense of forgetfulness as to whether adequate consideration is required to be paid, beyond the boilerplate contractual language recitations.

Ooops.

 

[Ispyin]

It is going to be interesting to read the AMENDED COMPLAINT. The original FSU complaint was 38 pages ... the amended complaint is 139 pages!! It reportedly goes into a lot of detail including Swofford and the negative financial impact TO the conference of inserting Raycom into the 2010 ESPN media deal ... with the only purpose of propping up the failing Raycom.

Haven't been able to read it yet ... just some comments on Warchant from one guy who has. From comments it is well written and potentially deadly for the ACC. It points out clearly that the ESPN media deal existed BEFORE any GOR and cites ESPN media documents that were the binding documents for the ACC and NONE of them required establishing a GOR. It appears that the GOR was a purely fabricated device initiated BY the ACC leadership in an attempt to create a large financial penalty for any school that wanted to leave. The GOR might just have well been written on Charmin!! Paints the ACC leadership as basically orchestrating fraud to keep the conference in tact in order for the leadership to extract exorbitant salaries rather than provide services for the member institutions.

over three words CAPITALIZED. CERTIFIED CIS approved!

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

this is good news, it basically means that the GOR means squat if you leave the conference

Kinda. It’s not a joint stipulation (ACC and FSU agreeing to fundamental facts) which I think some people are making it out to be. This is an FSU amended filing where they are telling the court, "See, the ACC said what we said- so they are in total agreement! Case closed.”

ACC is almost certainly going to respond to the pleading by saying, “We said nothing of the sort, FSU is taking what we said completely out of context.” It’s up to the court to decide, which was the situation before the amended pleading. In other words, nothing is fundamentally different today than it was three days ago, other than FSU having some spicy words in its amended pleading. That being said, it’s a clever strategy and good lawyering.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Kinda. It’s not a joint stipulation (ACC and FSU agreeing to fundamental facts) which I think some people are making it out to be. This is an FSU amended filing where they are telling the court, "See, the ACC said what we said- so they are in total agreement! Case closed.”

ACC is almost certainly going to respond to the pleading by saying, “We said nothing of the sort, FSU is taking what we said completely out of context.” It’s up to the court to decide, which was the situation before the amended pleading. In other words, nothing is fundamentally different today than it was three days ago, other than FSU having some spicy words in its amended pleading. That being said, it’s a clever strategy and good lawyering.

When does FSU and ACC get to choose a champion and this gets settled with tiny bikinis, mud, and oil?

Wouldn't we all be winners then?

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

When does FSU and ACC get to choose a champion and this gets settled with tiny bikinis, mud, and oil?

Wouldn't we all be winners then?

Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves.

But bikini oil mud wrestling is good too. Right after my first date with the gal who became my wife, she invited me to watch her in a bikini oil mud wrestling event. She was tossing girls out of the mud pit like it was the Royal Rumble, then hit a girl with a Rock Bottom and won the tournament. I knew she was a keeper then.

 

[Rickd]

Kinda. It’s not a joint stipulation (ACC and FSU agreeing to fundamental facts) which I think some people are making it out to be. This is an FSU amended filing where they are telling the court, "See, the ACC said what we said- so they are in total agreement! Case closed.”

ACC is almost certainly going to respond to the pleading by saying, “We said nothing of the sort, FSU is taking what we said completely out of context.” It’s up to the court to decide, which was the situation before the amended pleading. In other words, nothing is fundamentally different today than it was three days ago, other than FSU having some spicy words in its amended pleading. That being said, it’s a clever strategy and good lawyering.

It is significantly more than that ... they are asking the COURT to review the ESPN media agreement and it's language, and how IT defines the ACC GOR. If the court does review the two separate documents, and concludes that the ESPN media agreement DOES STATE that the GOR is in effect ONLY WHILE A MEMBER INSTITUTION REMAINS A CONFERENCE MEMBER .... then it is confirmed that any school that leaves the ACC leaves with all future media rights in tact, no buyback is necessary from anyone. Any school can leave, having only the ACC exit fee to deal with, and that has proven to be a negotiable item in the past.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves.

But bikini oil mud wrestling is good too. Right after my first date with the gal who became my wife, she invited me to watch her in a bikini oil mud wrestling event. She was tossing girls out of the mud pit like it was the Royal Rumble, then hit a girl with a Rock Bottom and won the tournament. I knew she was a keeper then.

She have a sister who is both physically and morally flexible?

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

It is significantly more than that ... they are asking the COURT to review the ESPN media agreement and its language, and how IT defines the ACC GOR. If the court does review the two separate documents, and concludes that the ESPN media agreement DOES STATE that the GOR is in effect ONLY WHILE A MEMBER INSTITUTION REMAINS A CONFERENCE MEMBER .... then it is confirmed that any school that leaves the ACC leaves with all future media rights in tact, no buyback is necessary from anyone. Any school can leave, having only the ACC exit fee to deal with, and that has proven to be a negotiable item in the past.

If we’re talking about the NC filing, then first things first, the NC Supreme Court has to decide whether the business court was wrong in deciding 5 of 6 motions in favor of the ACC. FSU has petitioned for a writ of certiorari. As far as I know, the court has not granted it. If the NC SCourt denies cert, they are not reviewing all the stuff in the filing. That's the end of the trail unless FSU takes it to the US Supreme Court. We are talking about the state where the ACC is HQ and has a lot of juice. The NC Supreme Court is elected, so that’s a lot of political pressure. It will be interesting to see what they decide- IMO UNC is going to have its thumb on the scale so I think we’ll find out if anyone is going anywhere. UNC basically has a guaranteed invite to the P2, so if the court denies cert, I think it means UNC isn’t letting anyone leave the ACC.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

She have a sister who is both physically and morally flexible?

lol unfortunately no. When I was in college a zillion years ago my girlfriend (who I didn’t marry) was a basketball player with an identical twin, I would have hooked you up

 

[SinisterCane]

The more I look at the bottom 2/3rds of B1G and SEC schools, I just don't see a path for the majority of them for any network executive to say, "yeah, keep them at $70MM/yr".

Either these network contracts are funny money "just kidding" numbers or some member schools are going to get voted off the island sooner than later.

The math isn't mathing.

SEC and B1G need the Miamis and UNCs just to bring up their numbers, let alone this bull**** about partial shares.

NOBODY is watching Vandy. Nobody is watching Iowa or Northwestern or Illinois. NOBODY is watching Minnesota, not even the people who live in Minnesota dontcha know.

NOBODY.

This man is on

 

[Rickd]

If we’re talking about the NC filing, then first things first, the NC Supreme Court has to decide whether the business court was wrong in deciding 5 of 6 motions in favor of the ACC. FSU has petitioned for a writ of certiorari. As far as I know, the court has not granted it. If the NC SCourt denies cert, they are not reviewing all the stuff in the filing. That's the end of the trail unless FSU takes it to the US Supreme Court. We are talking about the state where the ACC is HQ and has a lot of juice. The NC Supreme Court is elected, so that’s a lot of political pressure. It will be interesting to see what they decide- IMO UNC is going to have its thumb on the scale so I think we’ll find out if anyone is going anywhere. UNC basically has a guaranteed invite to the P2, so if the court denies cert, I think it means UNC isn’t letting anyone leave the ACC.

You missed the premise ... we are talking about the amended complaint filed by FSU in Leon County Court, in Tallahassee, Florida, today. As I stated "the original FSU complaint was 38 pages and the amended complaint is 139 pages".

 

[ST26]

I've actually heard that Chicago is the largest outside of Florida. But that was several years ago and most likely has changed.

Today, it’s mostly just wealthy kids from Jersey, Westchester County and Connecticut lol

 

[USNAVYCANE]

 

[USNAVYCANE]

 

[Empirical Cane]

Nice dig about Amelia Island.

ACC is run by toddlers.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

It is significantly more than that ... they are asking the COURT to review the ESPN media agreement and it's language, and how IT defines the ACC GOR. If the court does review the two separate documents, and concludes that the ESPN media agreement DOES STATE that the GOR is in effect ONLY WHILE A MEMBER INSTITUTION REMAINS A CONFERENCE MEMBER .... then it is confirmed that any school that leaves the ACC leaves with all future media rights in tact, no buyback is necessary from anyone. Any school can leave, having only the ACC exit fee to deal with, and that has proven to be a negotiable item in the past.

It is entirely possible that the ESPN Media Agreement does NOT define the GOR. But it is very probable that it does not NEED to do so, and that FSU/Clemson will win anyhow.

First, the ESPN Media Agreement was, as far as I know, negotiated and agreed-upon first. Now, it is entirely possible that the "as long as the institution remains a member" was language that was added LATER, but it seems very unlikely. That type of language seems like it was always a part of every ESPN-conference Media Rights Agreement. And because ESPN "insisted" on the ACC creating a GOR, it is highly probable that the GOR was drafted AFTER the Media Rights Agreement (and I have already discussed why the GOR was truly unnecessary to enter into a Media Rights Agreement).

Second, each contract has to stand alone, but you can infer meaning and context even if the contract is silent as to the relationship of the GOR to the Media Rights Agreement. In other words, if the Media Rights Agreement has always said that it would only apply to institutions that remain members of the conference, and since there are already other provisions that provide for ESPN to adjust the contract upward (Notre Dame) or downward (Cal/Stanford/SMU) based on membership changes, then it cannot possibly be argued that a mere Grant of Rights can confer a GREATER duration to the Media Rights Agreement than was previously contemplated and agreed upon by the schools under the original Media Rights Agreement.

Short answer: F$U and Clemson win.

 

[Empirical Cane]

It is significantly more than that ... they are asking the COURT to review the ESPN media agreement and it's language, and how IT defines the ACC GOR. If the court does review the two separate documents, and concludes that the ESPN media agreement DOES STATE that the GOR is in effect ONLY WHILE A MEMBER INSTITUTION REMAINS A CONFERENCE MEMBER .... then it is confirmed that any school that leaves the ACC leaves with all future media rights in tact, no buyback is necessary from anyone. Any school can leave, having only the ACC exit fee to deal with, and that has proven to be a negotiable item in the past.

I porsted this from info found in a Texas to SEC forum a while back.

Makes sense.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Let's scenario Yormark + Big 12 puts together offer for Miami close enough to SEC/B1G money annually.

Do we care if Miami goes Big 12 then?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Let's scenario Yormark + Big 12 puts together offer for Miami close enough to SEC/B1G money annually.

Do we care if Miami goes Big 12 then?

Yes.

I am still concerned.

There are various academic benefits to Big 10 membership and geographic benefits to Big 10 membership that far outweigh "getting close" on the money and the annual schedule that would involve:

Baylor
BYU
UCF
Cincinnati
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas Tech
West Virginia

Sorry, but that is just not a conference that I want to affiliate with. And before you say "yes, but there will be some ACC teams too", hasn't that already proven to be part of the problem (F$U and Clemson notwithstanding)?

Pass. No Big 12 for me, under any circumstances.

Joining the Big 10 is an existential issue.

 

[FL Cane]

Yes.

I am still concerned.

There are various academic benefits to Big 10 membership and geographic benefits to Big 10 membership that far outweigh "getting close" on the money and the annual schedule that would involve:

Baylor
BYU
UCF
Cincinnati
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas Tech
West Virginia

Sorry, but that is just not a conference that I want to affiliate with. And before you say "yes, but there will be some ACC teams too", hasn't that already proven to be part of the problem (F$U and Clemson notwithstanding)?

Pass. No Big 12 for me, under any circumstances.

Joining the Big 10 is an existential issue.

Completely agree. There’s no way the Big 12 ever becomes a good option. Perception matters.