- Joined
- Jan 24, 2018
- Messages
- 13,673
All I needed to know.
forums
MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations
- Thread starter OrangeBowlMagic
- Start date
Advertisement
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 3,290
But it’s not up to the other schools (whether to allow those 4 schools to leave). It is up to ESPN, due to the GOR.
ESPN would have to be the party to be paid off. That is actually an interesting angle, because it is probably fairly easy to calculate the buyout. Due to the length of the GOR, it is almost certainly going to be too expensive to pull off.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2011
- Messages
- 4,567
Rad: Here's my counter offer.
Takes out a blank slip of paper. Draws a large ZERO on it. Slides it back to ACC.
Dacrowcane
Recruit
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2012
- Messages
- 76
The "conference" can't do what you propose. ESPN has a GOR for all ACC programs and as long as there is a conference any program that leaves the conference, in addition to having to pay an ACC exit penalty, the programs media rights still are retained by the ACC (and ESPN) until the 1936 termination date. The only way to get out of the GOR without ESPN's agreement is to dissolve the conference ... and that appears to be the most realistic course of action and the reason that the "magnificent seven" and several other programs are actively in discussions with the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12 regarding switching conferences. The ACC has no leadership, has no strength based on the few members who are not committed to exiting, and the ACC is therefore on borrowed time.
Advertisement
CaneThang2020
Senior
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2020
- Messages
- 3,280
I say announced with 6-8 months and with new conference for start of the 2024 season…maybe 2025 season in worse case scenario. Only reason 2024 wouldn’t happen is due to scheduling conflicts with the new conference, that stuff takes time to work out.
IMO there’s a good reason why the SEC only committed to a 1 year scheduling model in 2024….no need to waste time with a several years long scheduling model when they know they’ll be adding a few more teams when the ACC dissolves.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2021
- Messages
- 6,452
OCC, meant to follow up on this yesterday ...
But, if provided an appropriate amount of time to evaluate the decision, would've Foote and the BoT actually approved a move to the SEC?
It's easy for those in charge to claim in hindsight circumstances beyond their control led to a decision second-guessed by us Monday Morning QB's.
But ... dust off the time machine and go back to 1990 — and the reality is the SEC held nowhere near the towering stature or economic might it does now and Miami (much like today) would've been something of a square peg in a round hole in a decidedly "Dixie" conference.
If the president, the board and the athletic director had come to the conclusion in 1990 that, "Miami is better off going to the Big East than the SEC" ... would they even have been wrong?
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 47,451
Here is my honest opinion.
AT THE TIME, the SEC did not have as dominant a position over all other conferences. The ACC was respected. The Big East was great at hoops. We are talking about 1990-ish.
I believe that AT THE TIME, we were just coming off of playing Florida ANNUALLY since the 1930s. The final two games were my freshman/sophomore years of 1986 and 1987. I BELIEVE that restoring the annual Florida game AT THE TIME would have been a powerful attribute for the SEC membership, though the money was not as massive then as it is today. THIS UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA ELEMENT CANNOT BE UNDERESTIMATED, REGARDLESS OF "DIXIE".
AT THE TIME, the ACC was very squirelly. The ACC had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to invite Miami to pair up with F$U, and they did not do so with any vigor. So I feel like the ACC would NOT have been a serious choice in 1990.
Therefore, the only true "other option" was the Big East. So if you compare the SEC WITH FLORIDA, as an all-sports conference, to the Big East WITHOUT F$U, as a weird amalgamation of football-only and basketball-only and all-sports members...and with our CLOSEST Big East opponent being in Blacksburg, VA...I think it is very likely that we would have chosen the SEC at that particular time, even though it was not nearly as obvious in 1990 as it is in 2023. Keep in mind that our biggest expense in the Big East was TRAVEL COSTS (think about baseball and all the other non-revenue sports).
Remember, the SEC had pretty much locked in on Arkansas (due to the weird problems of the Big 8 and the Southwest Conference), so the "take" of either Miami or South Carolina represented the only addition of a "major independent". Let that sink in for a minute. You know why? Because that should give you an idea of how lightly-regarded F$U was AS AN ADDITION in 1990. A lot of people TODAY tend to think that F$U is so huge, or that "winning football games" is the key to getting into a major conference, but the SEC didn't even have F$U in their Top 3, they had Arkansas, Miami, and South Carolina ahead of F$U. Which also means that the SEC felt pretty comfortable with University of Flagship carrying the state above the I-4 corridor and saw Miami as the key to locking down the state below the I-4 corridor.
And as a student at UM at the time...if you talked to the students from Lawn Guyland...they liked the Big East. But any UM students from Florida were all about the SEC membership.
Never forget - Arkansas was DESPERATE to join the SEC due to the SWC beginning to fall apart and/or merging with the Big 8. So they were ready to give an answer to the SEC in 5 minutes. And South Carolina was DESPERATE because the ACC and Big East didn't even want them, so they were ready to give an answer to the SEC in 5 minutes.
The only school that really had more than one serious suitor in 1990 was Miami. While "winning games" was not the sole issue, WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS was. And Miami had just won 3 football championships and 2 baseball championships in the 1980s.
So we were scorching hot at the time. And in a huge TV market.
Missed opportunity, though. The SEC had all the leverage, even then, and didn't give Arkansas, Miami, or South Carolina the level of backdoor communications that they do today, such as with the Texas/Oklahoma deal.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2011
- Messages
- 12,704
Incorrect, that’s not the reason they didn’t do it. The main reason was that the networks that they have their TV deal with we’re not willing to pay them more money for the extra value of another conference game so they don’t know value putting one on when they weren’t gonna get more money per game for it at least at the moment.
Advertisement
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2021
- Messages
- 6,452
The only thing I'd quibble with is the notion we (and USC-East as well) were in front of the semenholes in the SEC's pecking order.
From the media accounts I've seen, FSU was first in line — if only because the Noles had been banging on the SEC's door since the 1950's and they were much more of a cultural fit for the SEC than we were.
It also makes sense that Roy Kramer's "you've got 48 hours to be in or out" deadline was a direct response to getting ****ed around by Bowden and FSU's president.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 47,451
The only thing I'd quibble with is the notion we (and USC-East as well) were in front of the semenholes in the SEC's pecking order.
From the media accounts I've seen, FSU was first in line — if only because the Noles had been banging on the SEC's door since the 1950's and they were much more of a cultural fit for the SEC than we were.
It also makes sense that Roy Kramer's "you've got 48 hours to be in or out" deadline was a direct response to getting ****ed around by Bowden and FSU's president.
I don't know what "media accounts" you've read about F$U, but "banging on the SEC's door since the 1950s" doesn't mean **** if the interest isn't reciprocal. And if it was such a "cultural fit" and F$U was the #1 pick, and F$U lusted after the SEC for over 3 decades...then why did they NOT go with the SEC?
The answer is simple, F$U never was invited to join the SEC. Three other schools were invited. But not F$U.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2021
- Messages
- 6,452
Here is a fairly long account from the Jax papers.
TL/DR version: Pretty much everyone assumed FSU was gonna join the SEC along with Arkansas in time for the '91 season. SEC office took that outcome for granted, while the ACC leadership made a hard back-door push and convinced both FSU's AD and Bowden their conference offered a better path. The SEC commissioner — who assumed the Noles were a done deal for No. 12 — got wind of FSU's dealings with the ACC and told the school to kick rocks.
LINK:
The Montgomery paper actually reported "Ark and FSU to the SEC" on July 27, 1990, "quoting a high ranking SEC official"
Not trying to change anyone's mind. Just passing along some articles on the subject
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2018
- Messages
- 18,794
I hold the same position, and I'll add this: South Carolina wasn't a super powerful independent by any means. They foolishly left the ACC in '70, and were basically wandering for two decades. They needed the $EC a lot more than the $EC needed them.
Arkansas is a more complicated case. They were a top-3 athletic program in the SWC (a conference for which I have an affinity), but were forever playing third fiddle to Texas and aTm. That was never going to change. They were also the only geographically non-Texas school (although yuuuuuge amounts of their students and $$ are from Texas). Once the writing was on the wall that the SWC was all but finished, it made Arky's move even easier.
TLDR, there was nothing to think about for South Carolina, and, while Arky had something to consider, it was still less to weigh than Miami.
Advertisement
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2018
- Messages
- 18,794
As a follow up, I'm willing to bet the division as to who prefers $EC vs. B1GLY on this board is based strongly along the lines of our Florida/Southeast fans vs. those from the rest of the country.
Maybe time for a research poll.
Maybe time for a research poll.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2018
- Messages
- 18,794
Current board mood: $EC or B1GLY ?
Which do you prefer for Miami? Note about the poll: you can change your vote. It is recognized that information and circumstances can change quickly.
www.canesinsight.com
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 47,451
Here is a fairly long account from the Jax papers.
TL/DR version: Pretty much everyone assumed FSU was gonna join the SEC along with Arkansas in time for the '91 season. SEC office took that outcome for granted, while the ACC leadership made a hard back-door push and convinced both FSU's AD and Bowden their conference offered a better path. The SEC commissioner — who assumed the Noles were a done deal for No. 12 — got wind of FSU's dealings with the ACC and told the school to kick rocks.
Not trying to change anyone's mind. Just passing along some articles on the subject
Look, I don't give a **** what anyone in North Florida "assumes" or not. Much of that newspaper report is told my F$U partisans, and it conflicts with what they people from the SEC have to say.
Kramer himself says that the SEC presidents were NOT focused on F$U (and let's not forget that the SEC had ALREADY invited Arkansas):
SEC Commissioner Roy Kramer said he never took for granted that Florida State would follow Arkansas as the newest member of the conference, though others did. "There was a lot of speculation to that respect,'' Kramer recalled. "Our presidents simply announced that they were expanding and didn't mention any schools. I think public perception at that time would have said yes. But factually, speaking for the presidents -- and it was a presidential move -- no.''
And then you compare that to the bull**** spewed by F$U, where they continue to exaggerage about everyone wanting them. And we are supposed to believe that after nearly 40 years of begging the SEC, that a magical 7-week courtship by the ACC reversed everything. Bullcrap.
"At that time we thought we had arrived, when you have the SEC at your doorstep," Haggard said. "We had the ACC begging us and the SEC begging us." [THIS LAST BIT IS COMPLETE BULL****, since the SEC never invited F$U to join]
****, F$U wasn't even the first choice of the ACC, SYRACUSE WAS (Syracuse really screwed the pooch):
By the close of the four-hour meeting, Corrigan had permission from the ACC athletic directors to approach both schools to gauge interest. His first call was to Syracuse A.D. Jake Crouthamel. Crouthamel expressed interest, but because the Orangemen were charter members of the Big East, said the ACC would have to build a strong case. Corrigan, however, was not interested in wining and dining and told Crouthamel: "Just forget I called."
So, look, we can go around and around about F$U's claims to the world that ERRRRBODY wanted them. The reality is, they were not the first choice of either the SEC or ACC. They never got an invitation from the SEC, and the ACC initially voted "no" on F$U (before a revote). The SEC spoke with several schools, I've never denied that F$U was ONE OF THEM, but they were not so valued that they were one of three schools to get an invitation. And if the ACC had not revoted, F$U would have NOT gotten an invitation from either the SEC or the ACC.
Advertisement
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 47,451
I'll add this, at the time that Arkansas bailed on the SWC, I think half the Texas schools were either on probation (SMU) or were under NCAA investigation. There was a legitimate feeling that the Texas schools were corrupt and unmanageable.
Let's not forget, by the time that the SEC was chatting with Miami and South Carolina and F$U, the Arkansas situation was already a done deal. So there was one spot up for grabs.
I just find it funny that some people think that F$U was suuuuuuuch a priority target, yet the SEC didn't feel or act accordingly.
CaneThang2020
Senior
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2020
- Messages
- 3,280
Actually
pretty decent idea. Problem is if these other schools have a spot in the B1G or SEC, they stand better to hold off and jump when/if the conference dissolves.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2014
- Messages
- 15,297
No, The conference members can dissolve the GOR. The media deal and GOR are entirely separate.
Advertisement