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MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

TheOriginalCane said:
Notre Dame's fifth-most-frequent opponent is Michigan State. Their eight-most-frequent opponent is Michigan.

Here's the reality. The service academies are not joining a conference. But ND could continue to play those schools OOC anyhow.



Navy is in the AAC and Air Force is in the Mountain West. Only Army is an independant.
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Ispyin said:
You should look up how the big 10 works together on research and how that also adds milllllllions to the overall school.

If it didn’t university of Chicago wouldn’t be a non athletic member. It’s not just athletics specifically with the big 10. It’s not just an academic prestige hall. It matters money wise. Library wise. Taking classes via other schools programs wise.
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1. You are correct

2. That's all great stuff

3. Football (and revenue sports in general) still should be the No. 1 determining factor in choosing a conference
 
Ispyin said:
You should look up how the big 10 works together on research and how that also adds milllllllions to the overall school.

If it didn’t university of Chicago wouldn’t be a non athletic member. It’s not just athletics specifically with the big 10. It’s not just an academic prestige hall. It matters money wise. Library wise. Taking classes via other schools programs wise.
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Yea, I have tried looking into how the conference works together, and can't find much of anything.


That's the link for the B1G Academic Alliance website, and they haven't updated their annual reports in years lol. The research expenditure $s touted on the website isn't necessarily exclusive to the B1G, but just how much each institution spends on research, collectively. I've looked into the research funding for some of the member institutions, and the B1G doesn't issue any research grants, as far as I have seen.

If anyone has a source on the academic collaboration I'd love to take a look.
 
Hold My Beer said:
Max Greenfield Reaction GIF by CBS


That's the stuff presidents care about ... academic consortiums, rubbing elbows with their peers at more prestigious universities, blah, blah, blah.

Since this is sportsball conference we'd be joining, the primary considerations ought to be what's going to generate the most media revenue and exposure for the program, enhance recruiting in the revenue sports, put butts in the seats at JRS (or wherever we end up calling home) and so on
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That's not how perception works.

The SEC is perceived to be a group of ****** irrelevant universities (excluding Vandy, UF, and maybe UGA/Tex now).
 
Ispyin said:
I’ll host the every 3 to 4 year tailgates at the LA Coliseum and the Rose Bowl.

If you’ve never been to the Rose Bowl and that entire area, you have no idea what you’re missing. You don’t necessarily need a modern stadium to have an amazing experience. When a stadium and setting is that great.… and Rip orange bowl.
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I love this plan! I don’t spend a ton of time out there, and have never been to a game at the Rose Bowl, but **** the road trips to some of these spots would be a **** good time.
 
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Dari Jabs said:
I don't really understand the academic angle. Yes, as an alum I like seeing the academic standing improve, I just don't think the sports conference does anything for the academics of UM. As far as I'm aware, being in the ACC hasn't improved the school's academic standing, and the ACC is probably a better conference from an academic standpoint.
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Long before the Big 10 was a "sports conference", it was an academic league, same as the Ivy League.

What most people on these boards are not aware of (because all the news articles talk about the TV contracts) is the MASSIVE impact this will have on University of Miami RESEARCH revenue. Many schools, particularly schools in the SAME CONFERENCE, apply for federal research grants that might take place at multiple institutions. If you are just "independent Miami", you might not have all the contacts and connections and friendliness with other schools to make such applications and receive such money.

Before "computers", the Big 10 was an affiliation that allowed the member institutions to share library resources, and that was an incredibly powerful resource 100 years ago (or even 50 years ago). Now, the true driver of value is on the research facilities and opportunities. When you look at how much FEDERAL RESEARCH REVENUE goes into each university (and adjusting for differences in size and scope of each university), I'd be willing to bet you that Big 10 schools pull down $1 billion to $4 billion in federal research money on an annual basis. Billion with a B.

To put this another way...if UM was getting $35M a year from the ACC for SPORTS, and now we would get $85M a year from the Big 10 for SPORTS, then YES, it is nice to have that extra $50M for sports. BUT MEMBERSHIP IN THE BIG TEN WILL YIELD FAR MORE REVENUE ON THE ACADEMIC SIDE. Between becoming a member of the AAU and (possibly) a member of the Big 10, the amount of ADDITIONAL research money that comes into UM's coffers will probably be five to ten times that $50M amount on an annual basis (representing a bump from the research money we pull in as a non-AAU member in the ACC vs. an AAU-member in the Big 10).

And the AAU/Big 10 "research money" bump is a lot more than the bump we would get from joining the SEC (the SEC might even represent a research money "pay-cut" compared to the ACC). It is hard to know the numbers FOR CERTAIN, as we just became an AAU member, but this is REAL MONEY. Real big money, much bigger than the TV contract money. Much MUCH bigger than the Nike-adidias money.

So, again, if it hasn't been obvious previously (and with ALL due respect to the fans who simply analyze this from a sports angle), the ACADEMIC impact of joining the Big 10 is much bigger than just the sports impact.
 
Hold My Beer said:
Max Greenfield Reaction GIF by CBS


That's the stuff presidents care about ... academic consortiums, rubbing elbows with their peers at more prestigious universities, blah, blah, blah.

Since this is sportsball conference we'd be joining, the primary considerations ought to be what's going to generate the most media revenue and exposure for the program, enhance recruiting in the revenue sports, put butts in the seats at JRS (or wherever we end up calling home) and so on
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Why not both?

B1G
 
Hold My Beer said:
Associated Press
June 12, 1990

MARCO ISLAND, Fla. — Athletic directors at Arkansas, Florida State and Miami say their schools would consider joining the Southeastern Conference if the league extended an invitation.

Arkansas has been in the Southwest Conference for 76 years. Florida State is an independent in football and a Metro Conference member in other sports. Miami is an independent in all sports.

“There are very few schools that can make it as an independent,” Miami Athletic Director Sam Jankovich said. “We can make it as an independent. But you have to look at what is down the road 10 years from now.”

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Associated Press
Sept. 26, 1990

CORAL GABLES, Fla. — The University of Miami will continue to study possible affiliation with the Big East and Atlantic Coast conferences, and has eliminated the Southeastern Conference and Metro Conference from consideration, school president Edward Foote said today.

He said the SEC and Metro were eliminated primarily because of the makeup of the university’s student body.

“With the Big East, we have our highest concentration of students in that region, outside of Florida,” Foote said.

There had been opposition to Miami by some SEC presidents because of travel costs and the image that has followed the program since the football team arrived at the 1987 Fiesta Bowl wearing battle fatigues.

Arkansas joined the SEC in August, and Florida State rejected the league two weeks ago to join the ACC. Miami and South Carolina, which joined the league on Tuesday, then became the SEC’s prime candidates.

“Prior to Florida State going to the ACC, there was not enough support for Miami to vote them into the SEC,” a league source said.

TL/DR recap:

SEC wanted a second addition to pair with Arkansas for its 1990 expansion.

Florida State, Miami and South Carolina — very much in that order — were on the short list.

FSU had applied — and been turned down — for SEC membership numerous times dating back to the 1950's. It was a foregone conclusion the Noles would jump at an SEC offer, but the ACC commissioner quietly put the full-court press on the FSU president and, for his part, a very influential Bobby Bowden saw an easier path to football success in the ACC.

We were the second choice, but Foote clearly thought Miami would be the square peg in a round hole by joining the SEC.

The fallback was South Carolina
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Except...

This isn't what really happened.

The "makeup of the student body" was just a cover story.

The SEC came to Miami and gave us 48 hours to make a decision (because South Carolina was DYING to be next-up), and Tad could not get the Board of Trustees to convene and make a decision in that short of a timespan.

It was that simple. The SEC treated us like we could just jump and get an approval in 48 hours. SINCE THAT TIME, every conference will spend MUCH MORE LEAD-TIME working out membership details with prospective members. BUT AT THAT TIME, the SEC really ****ed Miami up with that 48-hour turnaround. Whereas, South Carolina would have sucked a bag of ****s AND two bags of balls for an SEC bid.

NO PAUSE.

Sad, but true.
 
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Hold My Beer said:
1. You are correct

2. That's all great stuff

3. Football (and revenue sports in general) still should be the No. 1 determining factor in choosing a conference
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As well it should but we’re talking about the big 10 and the SEC - it’s not like we’re arguing about going to the NFL versus the USFL
 
Hmmm. It’s almost as if comparing Miami TV ratings when we suck so bad that our games are relegated to ESPN, the Ocho was not the right way for some of you to look at Miami’s value

And by the way, regardless of whether this Twitter account has inside information or not, this data on TV and cable, ratings, and viewership is completely accurate. Sorry all you UNC people and FSU dusts us fanboys.

This is for 2016 through 2022 and if you look in the over the air which means it’s a game where Miami probably didn’t really suck for a change and was playing somebody good we draw nearly 4,000,000 in an era were generally Miami has sucked.

This is all about looking at ratings on the bigger distribution options against more name, brand matchups, and when you get down to that Miami’s profile skyrocket, versus looking at average viewership over the last 10 years on ****** channels versus horrible opponents

 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Except...

This isn't what really happened.

The "makeup of the student body" was just a cover story.

The SEC came to Miami and gave us 48 hours to make a decision (because South Carolina was DYING to be next-up), and Tad could not get the Board of Trustees to convene and make a decision in that short of a timespan.

It was that simple. The SEC treated us like we could just jump and get an approval in 48 hours. SINCE THAT TIME, every conference will spend MUCH MORE LEAD-TIME working out membership details with prospective members. BUT AT THAT TIME, the SEC really ****ed Miami up with that 48-hour turnaround. Whereas, South Carolina would have sucked a bag of ****s AND two bags of balls for an SEC bid.

NO PAUSE.

Sad, but true.
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Well, it appears The '***** were very committed in what they were willing to do.

🤣🤣
 
The Big 10 is the #1 ranked conference in Federal Research Grants and as a conference has received more than 15% of the total annual federal research grant awards. Federally funded R&D expenditures for universities totaled $89.9 Billion Dollars in 2021. The Big 10 covets AAU members as expansion candidates because it offers them the opportunity to EXPAND the amount of Federal Research funds received by the conference and allocated to the universities. It appears that UM will have access to Federal funds as a part of the Big 10 that it would not have access to as a stand alone institution or as part of the ACC. The bump in research funding to UM could surpass the incremental media revenue.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Long before the Big 10 was a "sports conference", it was an academic league, same as the Ivy League.

What most people on these boards are not aware of (because all the news articles talk about the TV contracts) is the MASSIVE impact this will have on University of Miami RESEARCH revenue. Many schools, particularly schools in the SAME CONFERENCE, apply for federal research grants that might take place at multiple institutions. If you are just "independent Miami", you might not have all the contacts and connections and friendliness with other schools to make such applications and receive such money.

Before "computers", the Big 10 was an affiliation that allowed the member institutions to share library resources, and that was an incredibly powerful resource 100 years ago (or even 50 years ago). Now, the true driver of value is on the research facilities and opportunities. When you look at how much FEDERAL RESEARCH REVENUE goes into each university (and adjusting for differences in size and scope of each university), I'd be willing to bet you that Big 10 schools pull down $1 billion to $4 billion in federal research money on an annual basis. Billion with a B.

To put this another way...if UM was getting $35M a year from the ACC for SPORTS, and now we would get $85M a year from the Big 10 for SPORTS, then YES, it is nice to have that extra $50M for sports. BUT MEMBERSHIP IN THE BIG TEN WILL YIELD FAR MORE REVENUE ON THE ACADEMIC SIDE. Between becoming a member of the AAU and (possibly) a member of the Big 10, the amount of ADDITIONAL research money that comes into UM's coffers will probably be five to ten times that $50M amount on an annual basis (representing a bump from the research money we pull in as a non-AAU member in the ACC vs. an AAU-member in the Big 10).

And the AAU/Big 10 "research money" bump is a lot more than the bump we would get from joining the SEC (the SEC might even represent a research money "pay-cut" compared to the ACC). It is hard to know the numbers FOR CERTAIN, as we just became an AAU member, but this is REAL MONEY. Real big money, much bigger than the TV contract money. Much MUCH bigger than the Nike-adidias money.

So, again, if it hasn't been obvious previously (and with ALL due respect to the fans who simply analyze this from a sports angle), the ACADEMIC impact of joining the Big 10 is much bigger than just the sports impact.
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I appreciate the detailed answer, and everything you said makes sense.

However, I took a look at Federally financed R&D expenditures by institution for fiscal years 2010-2021.

Source: https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23304 Table 24

I specifically looked at Rutgers and Nebraska, as these two joined in that time period and I would be able to track their subsequent growth, relative to total federal R&D $s. I wanted to include Maryland, but they combined institutions, and thus their data starts in FY19.

I see that Nebraska federal R&D expenditures actually decreased 1% from FY11 (year joined B1G) to FY21, meanwhile nationwide $s increased by 21%.

Rutgers, similarly, experienced a 6% decrease in federal R&D $s from FY14-FY21, while nationwide $s increased 29% in that same time period.
 
Nevermind that it is an academic institution and that there are huge financial ramifications on the academic side. No.....the schools job, especially as a Private institution is not to protect finances for the academic side. Football is definitely 100% the priority. Pure comedy up in here!
 
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Dari Jabs said:
I appreciate the detailed answer, and everything you said makes sense.

However, I took a look at Federally financed R&D expenditures by institution for fiscal years 2010-2021.

Source: https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23304 Table 24

I specifically looked at Rutgers and Nebraska, as these two joined in that time period and I would be able to track their subsequent growth, relative to total federal R&D $s. I wanted to include Maryland, but they combined institutions, and thus their data starts in FY19.

I see that Nebraska federal R&D expenditures actually decreased 1% from FY11 (year joined B1G) to FY21, meanwhile nationwide $s increased by 21%.

Rutgers, similarly, experienced a 6% decrease in federal R&D $s from FY14-FY21, while nationwide $s increased 29% in that same time period.
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First of all, I don't know if it's a typo on your part, but I wasn't talking about R&D EXPENDITURES by schools, I was talking about REVENUE. Perhaps it was inadvertent on your part, but it could make a big difference in trying to conpare apples to apples.

Second, Nebraska is an ag school, which is what cost them their AAU membership anyhow. So if you want an honest answer, you have to look at what "nationwide" increased by 21%, compared to what happened at Nebraska. If, say, agricultural research declined while, say, biomedical research accounted for the nationwide increase, then you have your answer. I'm not as familiar with Rutgers and their research budget, but keep in mind that Rutgers was an AAU member since 1989. What I was talking about with Miami is that we could potentially get AAU membership and Big 10 membership in quick succession, which will have a big impact on what types of research projects we might become associated with.

Third, again, it is not a straight comparison to look at joining the Big 10 as an automatic bump of X amount for every institution that joins. I was specifically talking about Miami joining, of which UM has a significant percentage of its total student body associated with graduate-level programs. As a person who was both an undergrad and grad at Miami, I know that we have fluctuated on our undergrad size (pre-Foote, Foote era, and now the gradual re-growth of the undergrad numbers), but we have always had very substantial graduate programs, which are very OUT-sized when compared to our undergrad size. And with so much in science and biomedical research dollars, the impact to UM could be similarly outsized.

If you think Miami is like Nebraska, that's up to you, I can't tell you otherwise. But I know for a fact that there are many in the UM academic community who view both AAU and Big 10 membership as developments that will have a very large impact on our bottom line, far bigger than the TV contract will.
 
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