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CB Xavier Lucas is transferring to Miami

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CanesLifer2 said:
There is now a rule/agreement that schools can pay their athletes if all sports with a total of 20m. So you may see it allocated like this, 15m football, 3m basketball, 2m all other sports etc.

If my understanding is correct, the schools agreement with Lucas is in regards to the above which isn’t yet allowed.

I don’t believe it is allowed until summer time -ish and must be passed by some sort of government agency (house or senate or something idk)

I could be wrong and have not looked anything up in awhile but this is just me racking my brain to remember the situation
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I believe title 9 says no no no.
 
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Kansas Cane said:
Rankings bump for him. Now 18th overall player in the portal.
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dave chappelle tyrone biggums GIF
 
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AtlAtty said:
Which is why I wish NIL would stay with the collectives and private parties. If schools are directly running their NIL, I can see how Title IX would be triggered. If private parties are paying athletes for their NIL, I do not believe Title IX would apply.
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A point I brought up a while ago was what happens when Athletes really start pushing for a players union.... I really believe it's coming, how soon?? I don't know but it just seems like the next step in the evolution of how things are going....
With that said I asked (Original Cane gave an opinion on it) who do they negotiate with???
Who are the owners?? In pro sports you have the owners and their commissioner and on the other side you have the players union and their rep...
As of now the schools wouldn't be considered the owners, right??
What about the NCAA?? ( I know the answer there is "**** NO!!!").... LOL!!!
The Collectives???
So who's on the other side of the table from the players and their reps???
Where and how is that line drawn???
 
Atom Atlas said:
A point I brought up a while ago was what happens when Athletes really start pushing for a players union.... I really believe it's coming, how soon?? I don't know but it just seems like the next step in the evolution of how things are going....
With that said I asked (Original Cane gave an opinion on it) who do they negotiate with???
Who are the owners?? In pro sports you have the owners and their commissioner and on the other side you have the players union and their rep...
As of now the schools wouldn't be considered the owners, right??
What about the NCAA?? ( I know the answer there is "**** NO!!!").... LOL!!!
The Collectives???
So who's on the other side of the table from the players and their reps???
Where and how is that line drawn???
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That's already in the works. Have to unionize these jits. Then y'all really gonna see how dirty this **** gets
 
Atom Atlas said:
A point I brought up a while ago was what happens when Athletes really start pushing for a players union.... I really believe it's coming, how soon?? I don't know but it just seems like the next step in the evolution of how things are going....
With that said I asked (Original Cane gave an opinion on it) who do they negotiate with???
Who are the owners?? In pro sports you have the owners and their commissioner and on the other side you have the players union and their rep...
As of now the schools wouldn't be considered the owners, right??
What about the NCAA?? ( I know the answer there is "**** NO!!!").... LOL!!!
The Collectives???
So who's on the other side of the table from the players and their reps???
Where and how is that line drawn???
Click to expand...
Great questions and why it is so much harder to make sense of how a union would work when their isn’t an entity on the other side that has overarching power to negotiate for the other side.

In an ideal world, the NC2A, or is successor entity would operate like a commissioner in pro sports, which means that first that entity, or person would have to be agreed upon by the universities, and the universities would have to cede power to that entity to make the rules. One could argue that already exists wit the NC2A, except that it has crumbled and keeps ceding power back to the conferences and universities.

But even when the NC2A ostensibly was the agreed upon negotiator and rule setter for college sports, it lacked the enforcement mechanism to stop schools from cheating expect in the rarest of situations. Part of the reason, maybe the main reason, why commissioners in pro sports have authority is because the owners have willingly ceded a lot of power because they believe it is in their collective best interest to do so. In turn, the owners police themselves and simply cheat less than their college counterparts. Salary caps have actual meaning in pro sports. Will they in college sports or will we return to a world of over the table payments (NIL) being supplemented by under the table payments? College kids will always be easier to buy off under the table because even with NIL, the dollars are so less, which means offering a kid $20,000 in cash can still have some sway. Boosters also don’t play a part in pro sports, again because the $$$ in pro sports make $20,000 in cash meaningless.

Colleges in sports still see everything as a zero sum game. Meaning that every school wants to win even if it means all the others are terrible. In pro sports, parity tends to mean higher attendance. If I’m the Lakers I want the Kings to be pretty good so that more people will attend when the kings come to LA. Alabama has no such feeling about Auburn. UM fans want FSU to be terrible even if that means lower attendance for the game. So the schools themselves need to start seeing each other as partners in this business model.

So as you noted, there is so much to figure out, but I agree with @Brooklyndee that unionization and collective bargaining is inevitable in college sports.
 
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AtlAtty said:
Great questions and why it is so much harder to make sense of how a union would work when their isn’t an entity on the other side that has overarching power to negotiate for the other side.

In an ideal world, the NC2A, or is successor entity would operate like a commissioner in pro sports, which means that first that entity, or person would have to be agreed upon by the universities, and the universities would have to cede power to that entity to make the rules. One could argue that already exists wit the NC2A, except that it has crumbled and keeps ceding power back to the conferences and universities.

But even when the NC2A ostensibly was the agreed upon negotiator and rule setter for college sports, it lacked the enforcement mechanism to stop schools from cheating expect in the rarest of situations. Part of the reason, maybe the main reason, why commissioners in pro sports have authority is because the owners have willingly ceded a lot of power because they believe it is in their collective best interest to do so. In turn, the owners police themselves and simply cheat less than their college counterparts. Salary caps have actual meaning in pro sports. Will they in college sports or will we return to a world of over the table payments (NIL) being supplemented by under the table payments? College kids will always be easier to buy off under the table because even with NIL, the dollars are so less, which means offering a kid $20,000 in cash can still have some sway. Boosters also don’t play a part in pro sports, again because the $$$ in pro sports make $20,000 in cash meaningless.

Colleges in sports still see everything as a zero sum game. Meaning that every school wants to win even if it means all the others are terrible. In pro sports, parity tends to mean higher attendance. If I’m the Lakers I want the Kings to be pretty good so that more people will attend when the kings come to LA. Alabama has no such feeling about Auburn. UM fans want FSU to be terrible even if that means lower attendance for the game. Su the schools themselves need to start seeing each other as partners in this business model.

So as you noted, there is so much to figure out, but I agree with @Brooklyndee that unionization and collective bargaining is inevitable in college sports.
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The one issue I see is if the Uni's become the owners and now control the money that's paid to athletes wouldn't that kill off collectives/NIL???.
As you stated there's so much to figure out and many upon many ways the conversations about it can go...
Also.. There's what the SEC and BiG10 have done and if they are setting up for the battle that's coming... I mean if they control all the top teams then bargaining power is obviously on their side.... If they continue to poach top teams then it becomes more clear where their motive may lie....
 
AtlAtty said:
Which is why I wish NIL would stay with the collectives and private parties. If schools are directly running their NIL, I can see how Title IX would be triggered. If private parties are paying athletes for their NIL, I do not believe Title IX would apply.
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Which is exactly why NIL will always be separate from the schools. Just because this settlement states that the schools can pay players a certain amount every year, that does nothing to NIL. Those same players can still go out and negotiate deals on their name, image and likeness. Anything that says other than that, is illegal.
 
Atom Atlas said:
The one issue I see is if the Uni's become the owners and now control the money that's paid to athletes wouldn't that kill off collectives/NIL???.
As you stated there's so much to figure out and many upon many ways the conversations about it can go...
Also.. There's what the SEC and BiG10 have done and if they are setting up for the battle that's coming... I mean if they control all the top teams then bargaining power is obviously on their side.... If they continue to poach top teams then it becomes more clear where their motive may lie....
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Yep and trigger Title IX. But if universities aren’t the de facto owners, then there is no organization opposite the players and it’s just the Wild West.

I would argue that the model will need to be universes acting as “owners” but setting some rules for the NIL collectives. However, as @NicKane stated, there is no legal way to limit NIL in a free market economy, just as it is not limited for pro athletes, some of whom, like tennis players, often make more for the NIL than they do on the court.

So the question then is, what rules can be set for the collectives which are not a limitation on what an athlete can earn for his/her NIL?
 
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AtlAtty said:
Yep and trigger Title IX. But if universities aren’t the de facto owners, then there is no organization opposite the players and it’s just the Wild West.

I would argue that the model will need to be universes acting as “owners” but setting some rules for the NIL collectives. However, as @NicKane stated, there is no legal way to limit NIL in a free market economy, just as it is not limited for pro athletes, some of whom, like tennis players, often make more for the NIL than they do on the court.

So the question then is, what rules can be set for the collectives which are not a limitation on what an athlete can earn for his/her NIL?
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Possibly tiered payments, with a signing bonus up front. Much like the NFL. Players could continue to be “free agents”but only after a freshman year and then a 2nd year contract tiered up with incentives. After that, renegotiate new contract or test the free market. Just spitballin’ here. Of course this would all open the door for agents and attorneys.But player protection from the wolves, the Universities and the NCAA would be paramount. But, pay for play is here and snowballing, gotta get a grip on it somehow, someway.
 
Groz73Cane said:
Possibly tiered payments, with a signing bonus up front. Much like the NFL. Players could continue to be “free agents”but only after a freshman year and then a 2nd year contract tiered up with incentives. After that, renegotiate new contract or test the free market. Just spitballin’ here. Of course this would all open the door for agents and attorneys.But player protection from the wolves, the Universities and the NCAA would be paramount. But, pay for play is here and snowballing, gotta get a grip on it somehow, someway.
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I love this in that it takes what will always be here, pay for play/NIL, and tries to put some structure around it, just as exists in the pro leagues. It’s not impossible to do, but does require that all the conferences have some agreements on things like transfers, and free agency dates. And that the players have a rep at the table when these issues are decided because otherwise the courts will always side with the aggrieved individual, and no equitable efforts of any system, some individual always draws the short straw.
 
AtlAtty said:
I love this in that it takes what will always be here, pay for play/NIL, and tries to put some structure around it, just as exists in the pro leagues. It’s not impossible to do, but does require that all the conferences have some agreements on things like transfers, and free agency dates. And that the players have a rep at the table when these issues are decided because otherwise the courts will always side with the aggrieved individual, and no equitable efforts of any system, some individual always draws the short straw.
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Lol, spoken like a true lawyer. This whole ball of confusion is beginning to clarify itself as it builds momentum each season. It would be prudent to capture that momentum and rein it in before it blows up and destroys CFB as we know it. But, someone ,anyone needs to put their bigboy pants on and set aside their grievances and greed to step up to seek an equitable agreement. Not holding my breath, here. All parties involved can’t be this blind or ignorant to this reality. Or, playing it as it lays and waiting for an opportunity for a power grab. That seems more likely to me.
 
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