Canes Camp Report 4/2 - RB w/ Hurlie Brown

[1CN]

Dillard pass block is pretty bad

 

[MIATL513]

I only watched it once but it looked like Gunter fell victim to a wheel route from the slot WR against Cover-3. He condensed on the post route, which is exactly what he's supposed to do in Cover-3, but he didn't see the wheel route running behind him. Pretty tough play for a CB to make. You have to condense, see the wheel route, then get back outside. It wasn't like he got straight up toasted. That's a good play design by Coley.

Howard made a **** of a play. I could be mistaken but it looks like the offense ran a "smash" concept against Cover-2. He left the flat route and jumped underneath the corner route for the pick. He did the same thing against us when we played Miramar in 2010. The **** kid is so smart and savvy. He knows that in "smash" the offense wants to throw that corner route, not the 5 yard flat route, so he leaves it and jumped under the corner route. 7 out of 10 times he's gonna get a pick on that play. Worst case scenario is he gives up a short completion to the WR in the flat.

Man I can't wait to watch some of these DB's play. C'monnnnn September!

IMO, Gunter got toasted.

No corner, in cover 3, can allow an outside release to a receiver. That's his play to make, and if he had the proper depth, the throw would not have been there. He gambled on jumping the TE post, which was bracketed by the LB and safety. He would have been the 3rd player covering the TE. That's a bad play by Gunter ... A gamble that didn't work.

You are absolutely correct about Howard's pick. A gamble that has great reward, and low risk ... Unlike Gunter's.

The base alignment for a CB in Cover-3 is 7x1 with the #1 receiver. (seven yards back, one yard inside) He's allowing outside release and using the sideline as his extra defender.

You're thinking of Cover-2. In Cover-2 a CB can't allow outside release because it's makes it more difficult for his Safety to get over the top of a vertical route. In Cover-3 a CB allows outside release. It would be impossible for him not to because his base alignment is one yard inside. If he get two vertical routes to his side he's supposed to play in between both of them thus giving himself the ability to make a play on the #1 or #2 receiver. He has to condense on the vertical seam route because that is the easier throw for the QB. That's what Gunter was attempting to do, which is why you see him running towards the TE in the video. He condensed too much and had no idea Dorsett was screaming through his 3rd.

Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate your thorough and informed response.

"Outside release" is not my point, so I apologize for the confusion. "Outside responsibility" is what the corner has for their deep 1/3 of the field.

My point was/is that Dorsett was never covered after he cleared the OLB in that coverage, and that's solely due to an error made by the corner in that coverage.

As I understand cover-3, the corner's coverage read is outside in, not inside out. Meaning his first obligation is to the outermost receiver. He had 2 eligible to his side, with the TE and WR. And in his zone responsibility, he has to be wide enough AND deep enough to protect against the verticals (go, flag, post). He was neither wide enough, nor deep enough to protect against the vertical from the outside receiver, and that's his primary obligation. The video shows the end result of his mistake.

I agree with your interpretation of what he did, and what he was attempting to do. Where we may disagree is that I'm saying what he did was wrong. He jumped a route that was already covered by a LB and the safety. That's not great play design by Coley, that's a busted coverage by a corner. Which is why I think he got toasted. With 2 verticals to his side, he had to have greater depth.

 

[LuCane]

I only watched it once but it looked like Gunter fell victim to a wheel route from the slot WR against Cover-3. He condensed on the post route, which is exactly what he's supposed to do in Cover-3, but he didn't see the wheel route running behind him. Pretty tough play for a CB to make. You have to condense, see the wheel route, then get back outside. It wasn't like he got straight up toasted. That's a good play design by Coley.

Howard made a **** of a play. I could be mistaken but it looks like the offense ran a "smash" concept against Cover-2. He left the flat route and jumped underneath the corner route for the pick. He did the same thing against us when we played Miramar in 2010. The **** kid is so smart and savvy. He knows that in "smash" the offense wants to throw that corner route, not the 5 yard flat route, so he leaves it and jumped under the corner route. 7 out of 10 times he's gonna get a pick on that play. Worst case scenario is he gives up a short completion to the WR in the flat.

Man I can't wait to watch some of these DB's play. C'monnnnn September!

IMO, Gunter got toasted.

No corner, in cover 3, can allow an outside release to a receiver. That's his play to make, and if he had the proper depth, the throw would not have been there. He gambled on jumping the TE post, which was bracketed by the LB and safety. He would have been the 3rd player covering the TE. That's a bad play by Gunter ... A gamble that didn't work.

You are absolutely correct about Howard's pick. A gamble that has great reward, and low risk ... Unlike Gunter's.

The base alignment for a CB in Cover-3 is 7x1 with the #1 receiver. (seven yards back, one yard inside) He's allowing outside release and using the sideline as his extra defender.

You're thinking of Cover-2. In Cover-2 a CB can't allow outside release because it's makes it more difficult for his Safety to get over the top of a vertical route. In Cover-3 a CB allows outside release. It would be impossible for him not to because his base alignment is one yard inside. If he get two vertical routes to his side he's supposed to play in between both of them thus giving himself the ability to make a play on the #1 or #2 receiver. He has to condense on the vertical seam route because that is the easier throw for the QB. That's what Gunter was attempting to do, which is why you see him running towards the TE in the video. He condensed too much and had no idea Dorsett was screaming through his 3rd.

Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate your thorough and informed response.

"Outside release" is not my point, so I apologize for the confusion. "Outside responsibility" is what the corner has for their deep 1/3 of the field.

My point was/is that Dorsett was never covered after he cleared the OLB in that coverage, and that's solely due to an error made by the corner in that coverage.

As I understand cover-3, the corner's coverage read is outside in, not inside out. Meaning his first obligation is to the outermost receiver. He had 2 eligible to his side, with the TE and WR. And in his zone responsibility, he has to be wide enough AND deep enough to protect against the verticals (go, flag, post). He was neither wide enough, nor deep enough to protect against the vertical from the outside receiver, and that's his primary obligation. The video shows the end result of his mistake.

I agree with your interpretation of what he did, and what he was attempting to do. Where we may disagree is that I'm saying what he did was wrong. He jumped a route that was already covered by a LB and the safety. That's not great play design by Coley, that's a busted coverage by a corner. Which is why I think he got toasted. With 2 verticals to his side, he had to have greater depth.

His mistake came in two areas: overcommitment and made the decision too quickly. Frankly, I think it was just a well-designed and well-timed play that was made to look even better because Gunter got sucked in. As someone who played FS in a Cover 3, I can tell you my biggest concern w/ my corners was when they'd get too aggressive or freelance inside. There's no recovery for that. There's no way I can get over the top of that.

 

[Coach Macho]

I only watched it once but it looked like Gunter fell victim to a wheel route from the slot WR against Cover-3. He condensed on the post route, which is exactly what he's supposed to do in Cover-3, but he didn't see the wheel route running behind him. Pretty tough play for a CB to make. You have to condense, see the wheel route, then get back outside. It wasn't like he got straight up toasted. That's a good play design by Coley.

Howard made a **** of a play. I could be mistaken but it looks like the offense ran a "smash" concept against Cover-2. He left the flat route and jumped underneath the corner route for the pick. He did the same thing against us when we played Miramar in 2010. The **** kid is so smart and savvy. He knows that in "smash" the offense wants to throw that corner route, not the 5 yard flat route, so he leaves it and jumped under the corner route. 7 out of 10 times he's gonna get a pick on that play. Worst case scenario is he gives up a short completion to the WR in the flat.

Man I can't wait to watch some of these DB's play. C'monnnnn September!

IMO, Gunter got toasted.

No corner, in cover 3, can allow an outside release to a receiver. That's his play to make, and if he had the proper depth, the throw would not have been there. He gambled on jumping the TE post, which was bracketed by the LB and safety. He would have been the 3rd player covering the TE. That's a bad play by Gunter ... A gamble that didn't work.

You are absolutely correct about Howard's pick. A gamble that has great reward, and low risk ... Unlike Gunter's.

The base alignment for a CB in Cover-3 is 7x1 with the #1 receiver. (seven yards back, one yard inside) He's allowing outside release and using the sideline as his extra defender.

You're thinking of Cover-2. In Cover-2 a CB can't allow outside release because it's makes it more difficult for his Safety to get over the top of a vertical route. In Cover-3 a CB allows outside release. It would be impossible for him not to because his base alignment is one yard inside. If he get two vertical routes to his side he's supposed to play in between both of them thus giving himself the ability to make a play on the #1 or #2 receiver. He has to condense on the vertical seam route because that is the easier throw for the QB. That's what Gunter was attempting to do, which is why you see him running towards the TE in the video. He condensed too much and had no idea Dorsett was screaming through his 3rd.

Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate your thorough and informed response.

"Outside release" is not my point, so I apologize for the confusion. "Outside responsibility" is what the corner has for their deep 1/3 of the field.

My point was/is that Dorsett was never covered after he cleared the OLB in that coverage, and that's solely due to an error made by the corner in that coverage.

As I understand cover-3, the corner's coverage read is outside in, not inside out. Meaning his first obligation is to the outermost receiver. He had 2 eligible to his side, with the TE and WR. And in his zone responsibility, he has to be wide enough AND deep enough to protect against the verticals (go, flag, post). He was neither wide enough, nor deep enough to protect against the vertical from the outside receiver, and that's his primary obligation. The video shows the end result of his mistake.

I agree with your interpretation of what he did, and what he was attempting to do. Where we may disagree is that I'm saying what he did was wrong. He jumped a route that was already covered by a LB and the safety. That's not great play design by Coley, that's a busted coverage by a corner. Which is why I think he got toasted. With 2 verticals to his side, he had to have greater depth.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

So yeah, definitely, I agree.

 

[Coach Macho]

I only watched it once but it looked like Gunter fell victim to a wheel route from the slot WR against Cover-3. He condensed on the post route, which is exactly what he's supposed to do in Cover-3, but he didn't see the wheel route running behind him. Pretty tough play for a CB to make. You have to condense, see the wheel route, then get back outside. It wasn't like he got straight up toasted. That's a good play design by Coley.

Howard made a **** of a play. I could be mistaken but it looks like the offense ran a "smash" concept against Cover-2. He left the flat route and jumped underneath the corner route for the pick. He did the same thing against us when we played Miramar in 2010. The **** kid is so smart and savvy. He knows that in "smash" the offense wants to throw that corner route, not the 5 yard flat route, so he leaves it and jumped under the corner route. 7 out of 10 times he's gonna get a pick on that play. Worst case scenario is he gives up a short completion to the WR in the flat.

Man I can't wait to watch some of these DB's play. C'monnnnn September!

IMO, Gunter got toasted.

No corner, in cover 3, can allow an outside release to a receiver. That's his play to make, and if he had the proper depth, the throw would not have been there. He gambled on jumping the TE post, which was bracketed by the LB and safety. He would have been the 3rd player covering the TE. That's a bad play by Gunter ... A gamble that didn't work.

You are absolutely correct about Howard's pick. A gamble that has great reward, and low risk ... Unlike Gunter's.

The base alignment for a CB in Cover-3 is 7x1 with the #1 receiver. (seven yards back, one yard inside) He's allowing outside release and using the sideline as his extra defender.

You're thinking of Cover-2. In Cover-2 a CB can't allow outside release because it's makes it more difficult for his Safety to get over the top of a vertical route. In Cover-3 a CB allows outside release. It would be impossible for him not to because his base alignment is one yard inside. If he get two vertical routes to his side he's supposed to play in between both of them thus giving himself the ability to make a play on the #1 or #2 receiver. He has to condense on the vertical seam route because that is the easier throw for the QB. That's what Gunter was attempting to do, which is why you see him running towards the TE in the video. He condensed too much and had no idea Dorsett was screaming through his 3rd.

Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate your thorough and informed response.

"Outside release" is not my point, so I apologize for the confusion. "Outside responsibility" is what the corner has for their deep 1/3 of the field.

My point was/is that Dorsett was never covered after he cleared the OLB in that coverage, and that's solely due to an error made by the corner in that coverage.

As I understand cover-3, the corner's coverage read is outside in, not inside out. Meaning his first obligation is to the outermost receiver. He had 2 eligible to his side, with the TE and WR. And in his zone responsibility, he has to be wide enough AND deep enough to protect against the verticals (go, flag, post). He was neither wide enough, nor deep enough to protect against the vertical from the outside receiver, and that's his primary obligation. The video shows the end result of his mistake.

I agree with your interpretation of what he did, and what he was attempting to do. Where we may disagree is that I'm saying what he did was wrong. He jumped a route that was already covered by a LB and the safety. That's not great play design by Coley, that's a busted coverage by a corner. Which is why I think he got toasted. With 2 verticals to his side, he had to have greater depth.

His mistake came in two areas: overcommitment and made the decision too quickly. Frankly, I think it was just a well-designed and well-timed play that was made to look even better because Gunter got sucked in. As someone who played FS in a Cover 3, I can tell you my biggest concern w/ my corners was when they'd get too aggressive or freelance inside. There's no recovery for that. There's no way I can get over the top of that.

Agree.


I'd also like to add that it can be a tough predicament for a CB (or the defense period) to be in.

It takes total cooperation from the play-side LB, Safety and CB to defend post+wheel. That play-side LB has to get good depth in his drop so if the QB attempts the post he has to throw over the top of him to where the Safety can make a play on it. The CB has to squeeze th post to a decent depth but can't carry it too far cause then he will take himself out of position to make a play on the wheel. It looks like our LB and Safety got it right.

Ahhh...defensive football is a beautiful thing.

 

[Cans4life]

Good stuff in this thread.

 

[PowerIslam aka Sumdumgoy]

Good to see Tracy making plays
Morris will beast this year
HERB....:eekeyes:

 

[RiDLer80]

Good to see Tracy making plays
Morris will beast this year
HERB....:eekeyes:

Going into last year I slept on Herb...not this season. Our WR core will be stacked.

 

[Spidercane]

I agree that we are extremely pedestrian at RB after Duke.

I can definitely see Hagans getting a lot more work and becoming our short yardage back and #2 RB unless Dillard or Edwards steps up.

I agree about Hagans pass blocking from that video. Wow that was hard to watch.

Looked extremely disinterested in blocking and didn't look very athletic or tough when blocking. Needs an attitude adjustment, needs to play with more fire.

Does he have that kind of fire inside? I hope so.

Dillard was the poor blocker. Havens seemed fine (if I recall)

Sorry about that I typed Hagans but I meant to type Dillard.

 

[CaneCounty]

Where's Edwardo Clements?

Still has a neck injury.

Coach said we should hear something about him in the next couple of week

 

[Ayeplus]

I only watched it once but it looked like Gunter fell victim to a wheel route from the slot WR against Cover-3. He condensed on the post route, which is exactly what he's supposed to do in Cover-3, but he didn't see the wheel route running behind him. Pretty tough play for a CB to make. You have to condense, see the wheel route, then get back outside. It wasn't like he got straight up toasted. That's a good play design by Coley.

Howard made a **** of a play. I could be mistaken but it looks like the offense ran a "smash" concept against Cover-2. He left the flat route and jumped underneath the corner route for the pick. He did the same thing against us when we played Miramar in 2010. The **** kid is so smart and savvy. He knows that in "smash" the offense wants to throw that corner route, not the 5 yard flat route, so he leaves it and jumped under the corner route. 7 out of 10 times he's gonna get a pick on that play. Worst case scenario is he gives up a short completion to the WR in the flat.

Man I can't wait to watch some of these DB's play. C'monnnnn September!

John Madden? Is that you?