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Can Corch D's scheme work with elite talent?

Canesfan1899 said:
NVA CANE said:
weownfsu said:
There will never be "elite" talent playing on this "scheme."
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This right here. This scheme takes elite talent and makes them average to above average.
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So is golden too stubborn to realize this and make a change?
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Well he will argue that he got to where he is today by implementing this scheme. At UVA and Temple he supposedly had a top rated defense. What he doesn't understand is he has access to a level of talent that UVA and temple could only dream of and running a bend don't break is not only unnecessary it's counterintuitive to what south Florida players do. Not just that but golden plays a dishonest game with his defensive statistics. At temple his schedule got weaker and weaker allowing an inept defense to shine. Where it was exposed was when he played a team of equal or greater talent. Hence why he never won the MAC.

So yes golden got to where he is because of his building up temple and implementing a defensive philosophy that provided llimited success against inferior teams. What we now see is that when you play for a program that expects championships and you are playing with the big boys then his scheme is inadequate.

In essence golden doesn't get it
 
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Any scheme can work with elite talent.

The bigger issue for me is can Golden and D'Onofrio get the players to execute properly? We've clearly regressed in that area this year.

IMO yesterday was the first time we looked unprepared. Others will argue we've looked that way the 3 or 4 games previous, but I disagree. We didn't even look like we wanted to be there last night.
 
If you are a DT do u want to play for us? We all wonder why we can't get elite d linemen it's cuz these kids don't want to play for a ******* pos coach in dorito...
 
CanesAreAble said:
Any scheme can work with elite talent.

The bigger issue for me is can Golden and D'Onofrio get the players to execute properly? We've clearly regressed in that area this year.

IMO yesterday was the first time we looked unprepared. Others will argue we've looked that way the 3 or 4 games previous, but I disagree. We didn't even look like we wanted to be there last night.
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Lies. We went up 7-0 and definitely looked like we wanted to be there. In fact the opening kickoff our STs unit was jumping around going crazy.
Reality is once the emotions wear off it's time to play ball & we just aren't very good.
 
NateDogg said:
If you are a DT do u want to play for us? We all wonder why we can't get elite d linemen it's cuz these kids don't want to play for a ******* pos coach in dorito...
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I don't understand why we don't get any penetration what so ever.
 
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I'd gain a little respect for him if he cuts it loose the next 3 games.

He has nothing to lose.
 
CANE4LIFE said:
Yes. It would work. People want to act like this guy is mentally retarded. He's not. He coaches the way he does because he doesnt trust his players. He obviously doesnt feel he has the personnel to run what he wants to run, so he's in a shell all the time, and thinks that a bunch of multiple sets is going to confuse opposing teams, but what it mostly does is confuse our own players.

I dont think the guy is as bad as everyone thinks. I think he's made some big blunders the last two years because of the personnel he has. I think all this "hybrid" cr#p and the move to a 3-4 has been rushed and has been a mistake.

I honestly think if the guy was comfortable with the guys he had, we would probably see a much better product. In contrast to some, I DO think the 3-4 can work ok at the college level, but its not very well suited to the players we have, and all the switching back and forth has led to a gagglef*ck on the defense.
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Well, if that is the case then why ever fire a coach? Was Al Groh mentally retarded or any other coach that was good at one point only to fail later on? There are more failed coordinators than successful ones. Its not what you know, its how communicate and relate to your players. Hey, RS wasnt a good CEO but he was successful as a DC and the guy is stuck being a LB coach at Arkansas. What has D'onofrio ever done that he deserves more respect?
 
Coach D'onofrio is mentally retarded.... what other coach besides him, would play LBs and DBs all the way off from Logan Thomas and a run 1st,2nd, and 3rd / no real pass threat offense like VTs, IN THE RAIN, the way D'onofrio did?

Only Dorito with his "my defense is perfect, and the other team's OC arent smart enough to figure it out, therefore I dont have to ever make adjustments, and the players arent doing their jobs, and it's everyone elses fault by my own" ***.
 
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So the argument for keeping him around is he might be successful if given enough talent. We hope. And if he just turns out to be a crap DC when he does have talent? What then? "Whoops. That's five years down the drain."

Providing every defensive recruit pans out, and they never get injured or turn pro early. Forgive me if I'm not ready to invest my hopes in the stars aligning every single year for that to happen. It would be like going to the BC head coach after the Flutie game and saying, "We're going to make this best out of ten. Do you want to add five hand picked All-Americans from other teams across the country to improve your team?" And him replying, "Nah, I'm just going to hope we can complete that Hail Mary five more times."

If you need everything to go right for you to hopefully do your job, you aren't good at your job. Simple as.
 
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There's ceiling for how good this scheme could be even if filled with All Americans across the two deep. It would beat (in some cases easily) the bottom 80% of the teams. It would be in a dogfight with a top 25 team. And it would get *****-slapped by a top five team.

There's a reason that the Big 10 has won only two national championships since 1960's and it's not talent.
 
The 4-3 adapting to 4 WR sets, the entire defense still staring to the sideline while the offense is lining up, and the "bend but don't break" mentality to me are mind boggling. Throw in that play at our 2 yard line with our LB's 3 yards deep in the endzone on a fairly obvious dive play and my forehead vein is about to pop!

Let the boys line up and hit someone. Maybe switch to more nickel so at least you have the extra DB, in case we need someone to cover a WR or an athletic TE (Ebron). Kacy Rodgers was pretty good last year in that role, or a Howard/ Burns/ Crawford lineup in coverage beats Cornelius and Armbrister getting torched all day.

It's obviously not the lack of talent. It's not the orchestra, it's how you conduct it!

If we see the same crap saturday against Duke, my kids will hear all kinds of words tat they shouldn't.
 
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My biggest issue with D. is not the play calling or the scheme. For me it's personnel selection. We should be playing McCord @OLB in stead of Green. If he get's killed in the run game so be it. But we would have some type of pass rush on those 2nd down passing plays, that could lead to sacks and fumbles.

I would have moved Gunter or Burns to safety and relegated highsmith after the FSU game to sub support only. I feel so bad for the kid, right now his confidence is shot and you can see it on the field. He is terrified to be in 1-on-1 tackling situations.

The scheme is not great but just making those additions right there would get 2-3 more play makers on the field. And thats the biggest problem on D. outside of Tracy Howard and Jenkins who else has routinely made big plays for this team? After the florida game our front 7 has disappeared. The coaches even talked about our lack of strips and guys in the front not having any impact on the game.
 
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Dghustla said:
My biggest issue with D. is not the play calling or the scheme. For me it's personnel selection. We should be playing McCord @OLB in stead of Green. If he get's killed in the run game so be it. But we would have some type of pass rush on those 2nd down passing plays, that could lead to sacks and fumbles.

I would have moved Gunter or Burns to safety and relegated highsmith after the FSU game to sub support only. I feel so bad for the kid, right now his confidence is shot and you can see it on the field. He is terrified to be in 1-on-1 tackling situations.

The scheme is not great but just making those additions right there would get 2-3 more play makers on the field. And thats the biggest problem on D. outside of Tracy Howard and Jenkins who else has routinely made big plays for this team? After the florida game our front 7 has disappeared. The coaches even talked about our lack of strips and guys in the front not having any impact on the game.
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I feel like they are terrified of getting beat deep and are trying to entice people to run consistently on us. I think that is why they trot Green out there as opposed to 17. They think Green allows us a chance to stop the run with minimal people. I disagree with this considering the day and age of the mobile QB. Defense is a numbers game. You have to push the numbers in your favor. Relying on 6 or even 7 to stop a run game is setting yourself up for failure.

IMO they are trying to do too much. Take the run game away by dropping 8 in the box and dare mofos to beat us with the pass. Move to single high and push the action to the outside. I think moving Gunter to Safety (his future position in the NFL; I think he is stiff in the hips for a CB) would help give us the range we lack.

Sorry for all the random thoughts.
 
NorthEastCane said:
There's ceiling for how good this scheme could be even if filled with All Americans across the two deep. It would beat (in some cases easily) the bottom 80% of the teams. It would be in a dogfight with a top 25 team. And it would get *****-slapped by a top five team.

There's a reason that the Big 10 has won only two national championships since 1960's and it's not talent.
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That was the premise for this thread, it just doesn't seem like this scheme is ever going to give us an elite defense no matter how many difference makers we have on defense, they're just not put in the right position to succeed.
 
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It has to be the scheme...look at UF..they lost NFL guys to injury..they still only allowed 180 yards to Vandy and were blown out...

I think our d was horrible just horrible, but turnovers this year has killed this team from excelling and blowing out folks...we gave a ****** team like VT the perfect opportunities and they pounced...
 
Canesfan1899 said:
NorthEastCane said:
There's ceiling for how good this scheme could be even if filled with All Americans across the two deep. It would beat (in some cases easily) the bottom 80% of the teams. It would be in a dogfight with a top 25 team. And it would get *****-slapped by a top five team.

There's a reason that the Big 10 has won only two national championships since 1960's and it's not talent.
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That was the premise for this thread, it just doesn't seem like this scheme is ever going to give us an elite defense no matter how many difference makers we have on defense, they're just not put in the right position to succeed.
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This right here. Talent can cover up a lot of deficiencies but it cannot cover up a passive scheme. Golden and Dorito are terrified of being beat by the big play. These guys do everything in their power to keep everything in front of them. Basically they play to not lose. They're not aggressive and don't play to win. You can't mask passivity with talent.
 
Gamineal said:
It has to be the scheme...look at UF..they lost NFL guys to injury..they still only allowed 180 yards to Vandy and were blown out...

I think our d was horrible just horrible, but turnovers this year has killed this team from excelling and blowing out folks...we gave a ****** team like VT the perfect opportunities and they pounced...
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Agree with you and wonder what it does for a defenses confidence when the coach plays so soft because he doesn't want to give up big plays. Corch Dorito is pretty much telling them right away that he doesn't trust them to make plays. And at that press conference Dorito looked like a beaten man, not a guy that's going to instill confidence into his defense, **** he admits that he knows what's wrong but doesn't seem to be able to fix it.
 
I have also been screaming for more blitzes and pressure but I think until Dorito learns to disguise a blitz we should probably sit back and rush 4. I am able to call out who and where the blitz is coming from nearly 95% of the time with 0 training, it's way too easy for OC's to victimize our blitz packages.
 
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