Article: NCAA Charges Miami With Lack of Institutional Control

[Biscuits]

A few points that particularly grind my gears:

### The NCAA used multiple people to corroborate some of Shapiro’s claims, including several former UM players who were compelled to speak to the NCAA and others that were not.
How did they compel testimony from former players aside from those who are at other institutions, which I'll get to shortly. How would they have compelled Kyle Wright, or TMoss to testify? I'm not aware of a vehicle for that. And for those who testified voluntarily, why? What motivation could they have aside from *****assness? And I'd view someone who wanted to testify against their alma mater due to *****assness as an unreliable witness.

### Also corroborating some of the allegations were some people who were granted immunity -- players recruited by UM but did not attend UM, and players who transferred from UM.
I can't believe this point is being hammered on more - right now. I know it's been *****ed about in the past, but how in God's green earth is testimony at the barrel of a gun reliable? Bobby Marve, tell us what we want to hear, or you're suspended. Joe D'Annunzio, tell us what we want to hear, or you're getting a show-cause. That **** wouldn't fly in a court of law, I don't believe, and infuriates me. Again, UM cooperated more than any other insitution previously, and these are the tactics used? Absurd.

### Shapiro gave the NCAA four boxes of evidence, including credit card receipts and bank statements.
The **** he did. He gave them four boxes of documents. Not evidence. I have a pile of receipts sitting in front of me right now. Guess what? According to me, LaMichael James and De'Anthony Thomas were at the bar with me back in 2010. I HAVE EVIDENCE!!!

I. AM. STEAMED. I can only imagine how UM brass feels.

 

[The Franchise]

But what did she expect? Perhaps she thought Emmert would soften the NOA given the problems with the investigation. Maybe.

Maybe she's just trying to send a message to the COI? But that can be done more diplomatically.

I think the only way to interpret her comments are a signal of defiance in the face of a set of events that she is concerned could play out very badly for us.

This is where you are uninformed. She didn't fire up the laptop and write this last night after she saw the NOA. That statement was calculated and prepared well in advance. With the hired guns we have running this show, there is absolutely nothing that is reactionary. They knew what message they were sending weeks ago. The only question was what time to release it.

Reading comprehension? where did I say she was reactionary and shot this statement out from the hip? I agreed w/ the earlier poster that Shalala's harsh words attacking the NCAA do NOT support the conclusion that the NCAA does not plan to do anything else to us and is just trying to justify the sanctions we've self imposed over the last two years.

He didn't quote you.

 

[Ethnicsands]

But what did she expect? Perhaps she thought Emmert would soften the NOA given the problems with the investigation. Maybe.

Maybe she's just trying to send a message to the COI? But that can be done more diplomatically.

I think the only way to interpret her comments are a signal of defiance in the face of a set of events that she is concerned could play out very badly for us.

This is where you are uninformed. She didn't fire up the laptop and write this last night after she saw the NOA. That statement was calculated and prepared well in advance. With the hired guns we have running this show, there is absolutely nothing that is reactionary. They knew what message they were sending weeks ago. The only question was what time to release it.

I'm uninformed? Wow. Are you an idiot? Where in my quoted comment did I say anything about when her comments were written? I'm addressing the why.

That said, the idea she knew weeks ago what she was going to say is retarded. There's literally no chance that's true. Weeks ago we were wondering what would come from the NCAA's internal investigation. PR messaging isn't done weeks in advance in situations like this. Days, maybe. Hours, certainly. But none of that even matters. Sometimes it's done minutes in advance. Makes no difference. What's interesting to discuss is _why_ that was her message.

 

[drifters1234]

A few points that particularly grind my gears:

### The NCAA used multiple people to corroborate some of Shapiro’s claims, including several former UM players who were compelled to speak to the NCAA and others that were not.
How did they compel testimony from former players aside from those who are at other institutions, which I'll get to shortly. How would they have compelled Kyle Wright, or TMoss to testify? I'm not aware of a vehicle for that. And for those who testified voluntarily, why? What motivation could they have aside from *****assness? And I'd view someone who wanted to testify against their alma mater due to *****assness as an unreliable witness.

### Also corroborating some of the allegations were some people who were granted immunity -- players recruited by UM but did not attend UM, and players who transferred from UM.
I can't believe this point is being hammered on more - right now. I know it's been *****ed about in the past, but how in God's green earth is testimony at the barrel of a gun reliable? Bobby Marve, tell us what we want to hear, or you're suspended. Joe D'Annunzio, tell us what we want to hear, or you're getting a show-cause. That **** wouldn't fly in a court of law, I don't believe, and infuriates me. Again, UM cooperated more than any other insitution previously, and these are the tactics used? Absurd.

### Shapiro gave the NCAA four boxes of evidence, including credit card receipts and bank statements.
The **** he did. He gave them four boxes of documents. Not evidence. I have a pile of receipts sitting in front of me right now. Guess what? According to me, LaMichael James and De'Anthony Thomas were at the bar with me back in 2010. I HAVE EVIDENCE!!!

I. AM. STEAMED. I can only imagine how UM brass feels.

Regarding your second point, prosecutors regularly grant immunity to co-conspirators in order to fry the big fish in criminal proceedings. it's a fact of life, that bad guys hang out w/ bad guys. rarely is a witness with any useful info untainted. Be clear, i'm not defending the NCAA's incompetent witchhunt of an investigation, just addressing your point about securing corroboration for allegations.

However, the idea that shapiro can corroborate his own allegations by repeating them later is beyond laughable. nor would it ever hold up in court.

 

[The Franchise]

One thing I've gleaned from this is that we finally have a local reporter that is pro-UM and on our side instead of constantly trying to f#ck us--Tim Reynolds. Tim Reynolds is a champion. This dude should do a major expose' on this debacle, bury the NCAA and win a Pulitzer Prize in the process.

 

[The Franchise]

Donna Shalala suddenly looks like Miranda Kerr to me. I might pull one out to her at some point in this very day. She's giving me goose bumps.

 

[Ethnicsands]

A few points that particularly grind my gears:

### Also corroborating some of the allegations were some people who were granted immunity -- players recruited by UM but did not attend UM, and players who transferred from UM.
I can't believe this point is being hammered on more - right now. I know it's been *****ed about in the past, but how in God's green earth is testimony at the barrel of a gun reliable? Bobby Marve, tell us what we want to hear, or you're suspended. Joe D'Annunzio, tell us what we want to hear, or you're getting a show-cause. That **** wouldn't fly in a court of law, I don't believe, and infuriates me. Again, UM cooperated more than any other insitution previously, and these are the tactics used? Absurd.

That **** happens every single day in courts of law all around the country. It's Prosecution 101. Capture two guys, threaten them both with harsh charges, cut a deal with one, lower charges, guy sings, other guy fries.

 

[drifters1234]

But what did she expect? Perhaps she thought Emmert would soften the NOA given the problems with the investigation. Maybe.

Maybe she's just trying to send a message to the COI? But that can be done more diplomatically.

I think the only way to interpret her comments are a signal of defiance in the face of a set of events that she is concerned could play out very badly for us.

This is where you are uninformed. She didn't fire up the laptop and write this last night after she saw the NOA. That statement was calculated and prepared well in advance. With the hired guns we have running this show, there is absolutely nothing that is reactionary. They knew what message they were sending weeks ago. The only question was what time to release it.

Reading comprehension? where did I say she was reactionary and shot this statement out from the hip? I agreed w/ the earlier poster that Shalala's harsh words attacking the NCAA do NOT support the conclusion that the NCAA does not plan to do anything else to us and is just trying to justify the sanctions we've self imposed over the last two years.

He didn't quote you.

got it. either there was a glitch when the page reloaded or i'm hallucinating ... or both.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Donna Shalala suddenly looks like Miranda Kerr to me. I might pull one out to her at some point in this very day. She's giving me goose bumps.

Would you imagine putting a can of beer on ...

Oh, nevermind.

 

[hoops156]

the entire organization will be unemployed in a couple months (org meaning NCAA lol) who cares what the NCAA says

 

[Tito Benach]

I'm lost are they saying that the coaches said that they did nothing or that they lied about actually doing **** illegally

 

[Biscuits]

All the discussion about deals and signals and settlement has been wildly uninformed.

There is no one even to talk deal with up to now. The NCAA is not set up well to cut deals. The enforcement arm collects evidence and bring charges. The COI assess them and imposes penalties. You would have to talk deal with the COI, but you can't even consider doing that until there is a NOA.

So go back and ask what DS is angry about. The NOA brings serious charges against the U. That's one thing. The investigation revealed a true witch-hunt against the U. That's another. But what did she expect? Perhaps she thought Emmert would soften the NOA given the problems with the investigation. Maybe.

Maybe she's just trying to send a message to the COI? But that can be done more diplomatically.

I think the only way to interpret her comments are a signal of defiance in the face of a set of events that she is concerned could play out very badly for us.

That's certainly one way to interpret it. It's not the only way, by any stretch.

It's not politically or legally expedient for the NCAA to just let Miami off with time served at this point. That's been a well-documented opinion by several takes I've read on the situation, and I agree with it. Since the process pretty much has to be followed, this NOA has to be issued, and it has to have teeth, given the extent of the investigation and the media attention on the case. Harsh language in the NOA does not directly signal that Miami would get hammered moving forward by the COI. Specifically, I'd be interested to read the NOAs for Boise, UCF, and Ohio State. Their penalties were all relatively light.

My opinion is that Donna's issuing this statement is a public shot across the bow of the NCAA. But it does not mean that she hasn't been given back-channel assurnaces that Miami will getting time-served, at the end of the formal process. As I mentioned earlier, a statement like this in the press by Miami gives the COI and *** Boy Emmert (I'd apply to have his name legally changed, if I could) the cover they need to throw Enforcement under the bus. Everyone knows that Enforcement was way off the reservation in this investigation, and who knows how many others? The head of the deparment has been fired, along with others. There's no one left on the Enforcement side to ***** when they get bus-tossed and Miami gets times served.

There's blood on both sides. We've been muck-raked for over two years; NCAA has been severly undermined.

There's no reason for either side to pursue this further.

 

[Scoot Scoot]

I'd love for them to name Robinson in a suit. Not that Miami would win (it's very difficult to prevail over a "news" organization), but because the number one rule for journalists is don't get sued. That is a death sentence for most careers.

I think the #1 Rule is get the facts, especially if you are an investigative journalist.
Getting the facts right and substantiated beyond reproach ensures that you don't get sued.

It's never what you think, only what you can prove.
If you only think it, but can't prove it, you should never write it.

I wish it was that way and no doubt it's the way it should be. But sadly it's not. The media today almost never publishes full stories with the full set of facts (except the select few, NYT or WSJ) and especially not beyond reproach.

Take Miami's case. In order to prove a libel case, the person must prove: 1) that it was false, 2) caused harm, and 3) made without adequate research. For an institution to sue, they must prove all that and 4) made with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth (proving malice intent - which is extremely hard to do). So Robinson doesn't even need facts to have legal protection, just a belief and a source.

But if journalists want to keep their jobs, they must avoid lawsuits. And 99% of the times, a retraction or correction is enough to avoid it. Robinson surely won't do that.

 

[Mangum]

A few points that particularly grind my gears:

### Shapiro gave the NCAA four boxes of evidence, including credit card receipts and bank statements.
The **** he did. He gave them four boxes of documents. Not evidence. I have a pile of receipts sitting in front of me right now. Guess what? According to me, LaMichael James and De'Anthony Thomas were at the bar with me back in 2010. I HAVE EVIDENCE!!!

I. AM. STEAMED. I can only imagine how UM brass feels.

The NCAA will not corroborate this unless you say it twice.

 

[Ethnicsands]

But what did she expect? Perhaps she thought Emmert would soften the NOA given the problems with the investigation. Maybe.

Maybe she's just trying to send a message to the COI? But that can be done more diplomatically.

I think the only way to interpret her comments are a signal of defiance in the face of a set of events that she is concerned could play out very badly for us.

This is where you are uninformed. She didn't fire up the laptop and write this last night after she saw the NOA. That statement was calculated and prepared well in advance. With the hired guns we have running this show, there is absolutely nothing that is reactionary. They knew what message they were sending weeks ago. The only question was what time to release it.

Reading comprehension? where did I say she was reactionary and shot this statement out from the hip? I agreed w/ the earlier poster that Shalala's harsh words attacking the NCAA do NOT support the conclusion that the NCAA does not plan to do anything else to us and is just trying to justify the sanctions we've self imposed over the last two years.

He didn't quote you.

This guy's clairvoyant. Cuz the guy he was responding to definitely lacks reading comprehension.

 

[Biscuits]

A few points that particularly grind my gears:

### Also corroborating some of the allegations were some people who were granted immunity -- players recruited by UM but did not attend UM, and players who transferred from UM.
I can't believe this point is being hammered on more - right now. I know it's been *****ed about in the past, but how in God's green earth is testimony at the barrel of a gun reliable? Bobby Marve, tell us what we want to hear, or you're suspended. Joe D'Annunzio, tell us what we want to hear, or you're getting a show-cause. That **** wouldn't fly in a court of law, I don't believe, and infuriates me. Again, UM cooperated more than any other insitution previously, and these are the tactics used? Absurd.

That **** happens every single day in courts of law all around the country. It's Prosecution 101. Capture two guys, threaten them both with harsh charges, cut a deal with one, lower charges, guy sings, other guy fries.

Good points by you and drifters, and I knew that in the back of my head. It just ****ed me off.

 

[Ethnicsands]

All the discussion about deals and signals and settlement has been wildly uninformed.

There is no one even to talk deal with up to now. The NCAA is not set up well to cut deals. The enforcement arm collects evidence and bring charges. The COI assess them and imposes penalties. You would have to talk deal with the COI, but you can't even consider doing that until there is a NOA.

So go back and ask what DS is angry about. The NOA brings serious charges against the U. That's one thing. The investigation revealed a true witch-hunt against the U. That's another. But what did she expect? Perhaps she thought Emmert would soften the NOA given the problems with the investigation. Maybe.

Maybe she's just trying to send a message to the COI? But that can be done more diplomatically.

I think the only way to interpret her comments are a signal of defiance in the face of a set of events that she is concerned could play out very badly for us.

That's certainly one way to interpret it. It's not the only way, by any stretch.

It's not politically or legally expedient for the NCAA to just let Miami off with time served at this point. That's been a well-documented opinion by several takes I've read on the situation, and I agree with it. Since the process pretty much has to be followed, this NOA has to be issued, and it has to have teeth, given the extent of the investigation and the media attention on the case. Harsh language in the NOA does not directly signal that Miami would get hammered moving forward by the COI. Specifically, I'd be interested to read the NOAs for Boise, UCF, and Ohio State. Their penalties were all relatively light.

My opinion is that Donna's issuing this statement is a public shot across the bow of the NCAA. But it does not mean that she hasn't been given back-channel assurnaces that Miami will getting time-served, at the end of the formal process. As I mentioned earlier, a statement like this in the press by Miami gives the COI and *** Boy Emmert (I'd apply to have his name legally changed, if I could) the cover they need to throw Enforcement under the bus. Everyone knows that Enforcement was way off the reservation in this investigation, and who knows how many others? The head of the deparment has been fired, along with others. There's no one left on the Enforcement side to ***** when they get bus-tossed and Miami gets times served.

There's blood on both sides. We've been muck-raked for over two years; NCAA has been severly undermined.

There's no reason for either side to pursue this further.

Back-channel assurances by whom? The COI decides penalties, and unless you live in Robert Ludlumville, it's hard to see how they or any amongst them could give us assurances on penalties before they've seen the NOA. It's also hard to see how anyone could speak for that group. And if you think the COI has somehow met and given us assurances before the NOA was issued, well, let's just say that sounds fanciful.

And on the odd chance that somehow you're right, if DS has been given some 'assurances,' then why would she be publicly humiliating the NCAA? When someone cuts a deal with you, the quid pro quo generally includes shutting your trap and letting things play out.

Her going hard after them is pretty clear evidence in my view that there is nothing promised, no wink-winks. She's positioning things for maximum leverage. As she should.

 

[Ethnicsands]

A few points that particularly grind my gears:

### Also corroborating some of the allegations were some people who were granted immunity -- players recruited by UM but did not attend UM, and players who transferred from UM.
I can't believe this point is being hammered on more - right now. I know it's been *****ed about in the past, but how in God's green earth is testimony at the barrel of a gun reliable? Bobby Marve, tell us what we want to hear, or you're suspended. Joe D'Annunzio, tell us what we want to hear, or you're getting a show-cause. That **** wouldn't fly in a court of law, I don't believe, and infuriates me. Again, UM cooperated more than any other insitution previously, and these are the tactics used? Absurd.

That **** happens every single day in courts of law all around the country. It's Prosecution 101. Capture two guys, threaten them both with harsh charges, cut a deal with one, lower charges, guy sings, other guy fries.

Good points by you and drifters, and I knew that in the back of my head. It just ****ed me off.

The people who should really be ****ed off are all the poor blokes behind bars in this country who got railroaded by prosecutors using just this trick.

 

[Biscuits]

Legal folks.

Is that a horrible idea? Does that open the door wide open for the NCAA to hire another lawyer to depose everyone in the Chick Robinsion report? If not, why would UM not do this? Convince me. Convince me.

 

[Bennubird]

Another leak to the media from the NCAA. This is really out of control. They know their position is weak so they are trying to build their case through the media. This after bungling their investigation, which was based on the testimony of a convicted felon who is in prison for being a professional lier and cheat.