A full defensive scheme breakdown (it's ugly)

[AtrainCane]

I agree with OP. There was a minimal pass rush last night, we need to get something going.

The other thing that bothered me last night were 3rd downs. Every time, we had the chance to get them off the field, they would throw to an open crossing route and go for a big gain. It was seen with Stanfords catch, which resulted in the poorest tackling and the play for a TD where Gunter popped the ball out but with just our luck it ended up in the endzone for a VTech TD. Why arent the LBs covering those routes or a safety? pretty much what Im trying to say is why arent we running man coverage? Why not put you young talent out there?

Cornelius is just too slow to react and cover anyone. We have see this the last 2 weeks. Take those senior that you think deserve time to play and actually play the guys that can make plays.

It has been frustrating to see all these players come in and not be used effectively. There needs to be a change!

We continue to put players on the field who aren't as good as the younger guys. That's on corch D

 

[Coach Macho]

We were in man coverage on that play where Gunter popped that ball out. That guy belonged to Gunter.

 

[nyibis]

Why can't we tackle?
Earlier in the schedule it seemed like our tackling had improved.
Then D'onofrio makes the point of wanting more takeaways and turnovers.
So are our players being taught to strip the ball rather than taking the ball carrier to the ground, because it certainly looks like it?

 

[CaneHammer]

We were in man coverage on that play where Gunter popped that ball out. That guy belonged to Gunter.

We have not played man or zone worth a **** all year.

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

Bottom line is, it is a scheme issue. The players have no idea where to be. They are lost. They don't understand their responsibilities. Regardless of how good or bad the scheme is, the scheme needs to be adjusted so the players can play faster and be in the right position. They need to be around the ball before they can make a play. How a 4-5 yard pass goes for 20 yards every time tells me that our players don't have a clue which goes back to coaching.

Seriously. If a defender is 2 or 3 yards away from a receiver when he catches a pass it's either a great route by the receiver or a mistake by the defender, but if the nearest defender is 10-15 yards away how could it not be coaching/scheme (a complete lack of understanding of the defense is something I'd also charge to coaching)?

React > Think.

No scheme calls for a receiver to be open by 10-15 yards so we know it is not the playcall. It is a complete lack of execution. My biggest problem with D since he's been here is that I don't have an idea of what he wants to do--besides be multiple. They want to play a lot of guys and be multiple. That is a recipe for disaster when you don't establish success with any ONE thing. When you get in trouble, you have nothing to fall back on. That's where we are, and it's the same as last year. We don't do anything well, yet we try to do a lot of things. And all the while, we are doing it with a lot of guys, many of whom lack talent.

Nothing is going to happen anytime soon besides damage control, but they are going to have to do a lot of thinking in the offseason. We don't have talented guys, but we do have a fair amount of veterans. We'll get more talented guys, but if old guys can't execute there's no reason to think young guys will. The defense needs an overhaul not as much in the calls as in the philosophy, whatever it is. Get simpler and play faster. React > Think is right.

 

[moshated305]

We were in man coverage on that play where Gunter popped that ball out. That guy belonged to Gunter.

I might need to go back and watch it again but it was hilarious to me seeing Cornelius watch him go right by him and then just turn and stare at the QB LOL Denzel did the same thing on the next 3rd down.

 

[AtrainCane]

We were in man coverage on that play where Gunter popped that ball out. That guy belonged to Gunter.

I might need to go back and watch it again but it was hilarious to me seeing Cornelius watch him go right by him and then just turn and stare at the QB LOL Denzel did the same thing on the next 3rd down.

u saw them thinking...playing slower than they r.....

 

[CaneHammer]

We were in man coverage on that play where Gunter popped that ball out. That guy belonged to Gunter.

I might need to go back and watch it again but it was hilarious to me seeing Cornelius watch him go right by him and then just turn and stare at the QB LOL Denzel did the same thing on the next 3rd down.

I commented on this in another thread. Our LBs are absolutely miserable at reading what the offense is doing. They do not understand when they can pass a guy off and when they have to go and cover cause there is no one left there to pass off to. At this point in the season, every team is going to use this to rape us underneath. We have shown zero propensity to adjust to stop this.

 

[FullyERicht]

Serious question. Is the defense something that nobody has ever run before? I mean, to me there has to be some disconnect somewhere. I would assume that while they add their own wrinkles to a previous coaches defense that this is something that has been run many times over. With that said why is there nobody covering the crossing routes? This has to be unique to Miami's d as no coach would ever run this defense again once they saw how easy it was to beat. Why are the flats open by 15 yds on every play? Again I doubt any coach that has run this d in the past would give this up so easily. Many have questioned having the LBs covering the crossing pattern across the field but I thought we played zone, so shouldnt the wr just get passed along as he crosses the field? This has to go beyond just bad scheme or guys spot dropping or talent. I would really like to know from those that are knowledgeable.

Yes and no. The concepts are nothing weird, but the way they are employing them doesn't make sense or work.

 

[Coach Macho]

We were in man coverage on that play where Gunter popped that ball out. That guy belonged to Gunter.

I might need to go back and watch it again but it was hilarious to me seeing Cornelius watch him go right by him and then just turn and stare at the QB LOL Denzel did the same thing on the next 3rd down.

Yeah, if you watch after the play you'll see one of our other DB's *****ing at Gunter. Also, if you watch the CB at the top of the screen you can see that he's playing man coverage.

 

[Coach Macho]

Personally...

I don't know or care what the play calls are anymore. If the DC is making the right play-calls and the kids aren't executing (at the rate that our's aren't executing) then it falls on coaching. We don't have a bunch of freshmen out there.

 

[FullyERicht]

Gunter also effed up on the first running TD. Was clueless as to where he should be, and then remember when it was too late he had the RB who waltzed into the EZ.

 

[CaneHammer]

Personally...

I don't know or care what the play calls are anymore. If the DC is making the right play-calls and the kids aren't executing (at the rate that our's aren't executing) then it falls on coaching. We don't have a bunch of freshmen out there.

It reeks of stubbornness.

 

[FullyERicht]

Personally...

I don't know or care what the play calls are anymore. If the DC is making the right play-calls and the kids aren't executing (at the rate that our's aren't executing) then it falls on coaching. We don't have a bunch of freshmen out there.

Coaching is the ability to communicate concepts to players and get them to execute those concepts, and we don't do a good job of it.

 

[MoSikes]

Bottom line is, it is a scheme issue. The players have no idea where to be. They are lost. They don't understand their responsibilities. Regardless of how good or bad the scheme is, the scheme needs to be adjusted so the players can play faster and be in the right position. They need to be around the ball before they can make a play. How a 4-5 yard pass goes for 20 yards every time tells me that our players don't have a clue which goes back to coaching.

Seriously. If a defender is 2 or 3 yards away from a receiver when he catches a pass it's either a great route by the receiver or a mistake by the defender, but if the nearest defender is 10-15 yards away how could it not be coaching/scheme (a complete lack of understanding of the defense is something I'd also charge to coaching)?

React > Think.

No scheme calls for a receiver to be open by 10-15 yards so we know it is not the playcall. It is a complete lack of execution. My biggest problem with D since he's been here is that I don't have an idea of what he wants to do--besides be multiple. They want to play a lot of guys and be multiple. That is a recipe for disaster when you don't establish success with any ONE thing. When you get in trouble, you have nothing to fall back on. That's where we are, and it's the same as last year. We don't do anything well, yet we try to do a lot of things. And all the while, we are doing it with a lot of guys, many of whom lack talent.

Nothing is going to happen anytime soon besides damage control, but they are going to have to do a lot of thinking in the offseason. We don't have talented guys, but we do have a fair amount of veterans. We'll get more talented guys, but if old guys can't execute there's no reason to think young guys will. The defense needs an overhaul not as much in the calls as in the philosophy, whatever it is. Get simpler and play faster. React > Think is right.

We're on the same page here. Multiple defensive looks sounds fantastic, but if the kids don't get it then you might as well be playing without 11 guys.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Bottom line is, it is a scheme issue. The players have no idea where to be. They are lost. They don't understand their responsibilities. Regardless of how good or bad the scheme is, the scheme needs to be adjusted so the players can play faster and be in the right position. They need to be around the ball before they can make a play. How a 4-5 yard pass goes for 20 yards every time tells me that our players don't have a clue which goes back to coaching.

Seriously. If a defender is 2 or 3 yards away from a receiver when he catches a pass it's either a great route by the receiver or a mistake by the defender, but if the nearest defender is 10-15 yards away how could it not be coaching/scheme (a complete lack of understanding of the defense is something I'd also charge to coaching)?

React > Think.

No scheme calls for a receiver to be open by 10-15 yards so we know it is not the playcall. It is a complete lack of execution. My biggest problem with D since he's been here is that I don't have an idea of what he wants to do--besides be multiple. They want to play a lot of guys and be multiple. That is a recipe for disaster when you don't establish success with any ONE thing. When you get in trouble, you have nothing to fall back on. That's where we are, and it's the same as last year. We don't do anything well, yet we try to do a lot of things. And all the while, we are doing it with a lot of guys, many of whom lack talent.

Nothing is going to happen anytime soon besides damage control, but they are going to have to do a lot of thinking in the offseason. We don't have talented guys, but we do have a fair amount of veterans. We'll get more talented guys, but if old guys can't execute there's no reason to think young guys will. The defense needs an overhaul not as much in the calls as in the philosophy, whatever it is. Get simpler and play faster. React > Think is right.

Agree. The kids are lost. That's on the staff.

 

[LuCane]

The kids are lost because they're at an inherent disadvantage on many plays. As a defender, it's nice to know you're at an advantage before the ball is snapped.

One interesting thing I noticed from VTech's defense:

On one play, they had their FS literally 25-30 yards from the LOS - he was basically standing inside the 5 yard line when we had the ball around the 30. At the beginning of the play, it looked so odd that I pointed out "hey, 12 guys on the field." I quickly counted and, nope, there were just 11. It was a 3rd and long play for us, so you know what Bud Foster did? He apparently had seen that we have an incredible tendency to send 4 verticals across the field. And, that Stephen Morris takes a quick look there, sees Safety over the top and looks elsewhere. Basically, he eliminated 2 routes with one unusually deep defender. It helped him cover elsewhere and the play went for nothing.

That may sound like something stupid that only affected one play, but it speaks to the difference between preparation and philosophy helping players and "sticking to what we do and we have to execute." This should not be surprising to anyone. We had a **** 16-page thread about this very issue last week. I think we all knew we're sticking with things consciously. This is a decision.

 

[drifters1234]

Excellent post. Very interesting that they are essentially trying to run two defenses rather than one. So they have to simplify both defenses, which results in neither being effective.

It's like a restaurant that has every kind of food under the sun. The end result is nothing is good.

 

[dolpterry]

The amazing thing is if they just ran AGs 3-4 man or D's 4-3 zone, they'd probably solve most of their issues.

So why don't they?

Number 1 reason is lack of quality linebackers, except for Perryman never heard another backers name called last night. Once we lost G Paul and E Johnson were now playing guys who would have never seen the field except on special teams.

 

[Canesfan1899]

The kids are lost because they're at an inherent disadvantage on many plays. As a defender, it's nice to know you're at an advantage before the ball is snapped.

One interesting thing I noticed from VTech's defense:

On one play, they had their FS literally 25-30 yards from the LOS - he was basically standing inside the 5 yard line when we had the ball around the 30. At the beginning of the play, it looked so odd that I pointed out "hey, 12 guys on the field." I quickly counted and, nope, there were just 11. It was a 3rd and long play for us, so you know what Bud Foster did? He apparently had seen that we have an incredible tendency to send 4 verticals across the field. And, that Stephen Morris takes a quick look there, sees Safety over the top and looks elsewhere. Basically, he eliminated 2 routes with one unusually deep defender. It helped him cover elsewhere and the play went for nothing.

That may sound like something stupid that only affected one play, but it speaks to the difference between preparation and philosophy helping players and "sticking to what we do and we have to execute." This should not be surprising to anyone. We had a **** 16-page thread about this very issue last week. I think we all knew we're sticking with things consciously. This is a decision.

Foster knows how to make a qb uncomfortable and puts his players in the best position to aucceed. We were running around with our heads cutoff.