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A Few Guys Arguing Non-Stop [F/K/A "Let’s check on Lane Kiffen"]

crossover22[]_[] said:
Mtsu is a juggernaut that miamis 4 and 5 stars cant compete with. We need 3 more classes.

Duke had a first year coach and dog walked mario last season. With half the talent.


Mario lost 7 of his last 10 last year. Got 40 put on him how many times?
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What does any of that have to do with Lane Kiffin?
 
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Rellyrell said:
I’m well aware, which is y I said when he’s under someone, he’s a better recruiter b/c he has no choice.

U also need to understand that at this time, Kiffin was busting his *** to reach a certain status. Once he achieved that status, he tapered off tremendously.

Like at a certain point, data becomes out dated & irrelevant. What are the current trends? To continue to bring up something that was accomplished 15 yrs ago, or being a benefactor of inheriting a USC program that was legit recruiting itself does not equate to Kiffin being a good recruiter. U know how I know that? B/c there’s tangible data showing from 2012 (while at SC)-present it’s fallen off.

And for the ones defending this **** poor effort this cycle stating “his strategy is to recruit small HS classes & use the portal”, I think he needs a new strategy b/c Ole Miss had the #2 Portal Class for 2022, & all that led to was going from 10-3 in 2021 to 8-5 in 2022, on a 4 game losing streak.
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It's certainly an interesting strategy. It definitely might blow up in his face long-term.
 
razrcane said:
I just state facts. How y'all view them is another thing. And who even started this thread. It wasn't a pro-Kiffen person lol
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Understandable.

First, I could explain to you how I made a joke about Kiffin's "highest average classes" being his smallest, but a certain emotional twink on this board doesn't understand jokes.

Second, who started the thread is not the issue. The real issue is how certain CIS porsters white-knight for Kiffin NO MATTER WHAT.
 
Rellyrell said:
And for the ones defending this **** poor effort this cycle stating “his strategy is to recruit small HS classes & use the portal”, I think he needs a new strategy b/c Ole Miss had the #2 Portal Class for 2022, & all that led to was going from 10-3 in 2021 to 8-5 in 2022, on a 4 game losing streak.
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I'd also point out that this is a "no-IC-limitation" year. So these Kiffin apologists who are trying to act like it was a CHOICE to go after Portal kids instead of high school recruits are just nuts.
 
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Question: if Lane is so good, why did his team play so poorly over the last two months?

CIS fanboys: “your boyfriend lost to MTSU!!”

Not exactly a bunch of college grads posting around here.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Yes, and I wasn't trying to build an Ultimate Marvel unified universe either. I wasn't trying to make fact-by-fact comparison of the entire life story of Coker to the entire life story of Kiffin.

I'm just saying something very simple.

Butch built it at UM, Coker enjoyed that momentum.

Carroll built it at USC, Kiffin enjoyed that momentum.

Did each one (Coker/Kiffin) encounter different fact patterns that brought their rides to a screeching halt? Yes.
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I guess this is where I don't get the theory that Lane took over a juggernaut in USC. When Lane took over USC, they were trending down from being "elite." They were still a good program. I mean, they finished 9-4 the previous year, which is not bad, but certainly not great. Don't know how Lane really had any momentum when he took over seeing that UCS was not elite anymore and were now on probation and under sanctions.

I don't know the real reason Lane was let go. I think he must have rubbed somebody the wrong way. He fared pretty good the first two seasons and had a winning record, although they were ineligible to play in a bowl game due to sanctions. The 3rd season was where he really laid an egg, going 7-6, and losing the bowl game. I think that 2012 season was the initial season the reduction of scholarships started. They were also capped at 75 player roster for 3 year time span from 2012-2014. I might be wrong on this, so if somebody has more accurate information on the impact of the probation, feel free to correct me.

So, Lane was fired in year 4 after starting the season 3-2. USC was in the middle of probation and down 20 scholarships. I just don't see how his firing was all about wins and losses. USC actually finished that season 10-4 and won their bowl game. I'm not saying USC would have finished 10-4 if Lane had coached that entire season. Maybe the admin had had enough of his arrogance and attitude? I don't know. We do know that Coker never had to deal with any sanctions and probation and got worse every year which finally led to his firing, despite being handed the best college football team ever.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I'd also point out that this is a "no-IC-limitation" year. So these Kiffin apologists who are trying to act like it was a CHOICE to go after Portal kids instead of high school recruits are just nuts.
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We've all seen coaches make dumb decisions before. This decision of his could be one. Time will tell.
 
WanderFranco said:
What does any of that have to do with Lane Kiffin?
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He can't help it. I've reminded him a dozen times that this is a "Kiffin recruiting" thread on the Recruiting Board, and not a "Mario can't coach" thread, but he steps back into the bear trap EVERY TIME.
 
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razrcane said:
It's certainly an interesting strategy. It definitely might blow up in his face long-term.
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It’s not a strategy. Lol. I’ve already posted Kiffin’s all time recruits that he was directly involved w/. Kiffin has been in the game for over 20 yrs as an OC, AHC, or WR & u don’t find it strange that’s he’s been involved w/ only 15 recruitments during this time, w/ the majority coming under Pete Carroll 16 yrs ago?

He’s a lazy recruiter & that “strategy” already blew up in his face this yr.
 
Rellyrell said:
It’s not a strategy. Lol. I’ve already posted Kiffin’s all time recruits that he was directly involved w/. Kiffin has been in the game for over 20 yrs as an OC, AHC, or WR & u don’t find it strange that’s he’s been involved w/ only 15 recruitments during this time, w/ the majority coming under Pete Carroll 16 yrs ago?

He’s a lazy recruiter & that “strategy” already blew up in his face this yr.
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We can go round and round about what is or isn't a strategy. The guy himself said it back in 2021. Did he say it and go this route bc he is lazy at recruiting. Sure it's possible. But acting like this wasn't a planned course when he articulated it back in 2021 is not really logical. I don't know if it has blown up in his face. One data point doesn't make or break. I look more at trends than one season.
 
Stats02 said:
I guess this is where I don't get the theory that Lane took over a juggernaut in USC. When Lane took over USC, they were trending down from being "elite." They were still a good program. I mean, they finished 9-4 the previous year, which is not bad, but certainly not great. Don't know how Lane really had any momentum when he took over seeing that UCS was not elite anymore and were now on probation and under sanctions.

I don't know the real reason Lane was let go. I think he must have rubbed somebody the wrong way. He fared pretty good the first two seasons and had a winning record, although they were ineligible to play in a bowl game due to sanctions. The 3rd season was where he really laid an egg, going 7-6, and losing the bowl game. I think that 2012 season was the initial season the reduction of scholarships started. They were also capped at 75 player roster for 3 year time span from 2012-2014. I might be wrong on this, so if somebody has more accurate information on the impact of the probation, feel free to correct me.

So, Lane was fired in year 4 after starting the season 3-2. USC was in the middle of probation and down 20 scholarships. I just don't see how his firing was all about wins and losses. USC actually finished that season 10-4 and won their bowl game. I'm not saying USC would have finished 10-4 if Lane had coached that entire season. Maybe the admin had had enough of his arrogance and attitude? I don't know. We do know that Coker never had to deal with any sanctions and probation and got worse every year which finally led to his firing, despite being handed the best college football team ever.
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OK, I'm going to simplify this, because I cannot reproduce hours worth of conversations I've had with actual USC alums over the past 20 years.

You (like crossover) are overly focused on "record" as an indication of "how good" or "how bad" a team is at any given moment.

I'm not sure where you get this "trending down from being elite". Sure, they were 9-4 under the heat and distraction of an NCAA investigation. But the year before they went 12-1. You had SEVEN YEARS IN A ROW where they finished AT LEAST #4. And then ONE TIME Carroll goes 9-4 and that constitutes a "trend down from being elite"?

No sir.

Also, I fully reject the crossover "one metric" model for analyzing things. Anyone who went to USC or who has followed USC closely can tell you what USC is when they are "on" and what happens when they are not on. And Carroll had re-established a DOMINANT position for USC on the west coast. That's the truth, no matter if he dropped a couple extra games in 2009 that he didn't ordinarily drop.

Again...the alums...the recruiting...the resources...the celebrity...the dominance...the expectations...all of the things that makes USC "special" when they are on top of the world...that's what was there when Carroll left and Kiffin took over. All of those things did not suddenly disappear in ONE 9-4 season (that came right after a 12-1 season).

As for Lane being let go, again, I beg of you...do NOT subscribe to the crossover "one metric" model. It clearly was not about Ws and Ls. USC knew that there would be struggles due to the sanctions. There were a LOT of internal problems, and I was hearing about them regularly because one of my friends & co-workers was a former USC athlete. Kiffin lost the respect and control of the team, it's just that simple. And the USC administration not only did not have confidence that he COULD get it back, but also whether he was even willing to make the effort. THAT is why he was left on the tarmac, he wouldn't even do the bare minimum to try to get things back under control.

Nobody denies that "sanctions" are a part of any reasonable explanation for lack of success. But Kiffin made it ALL about that. He denied that any of the other team-culture issues were the problem. He refused to make changes and get help for what was beginning to spiral out of control.

And no matter what crossover tries to tell you...the vast majority of USC fans are still sore about Kiffin. Not because he "betrayed" USC the way Lane betrayed Oakland and Tennessee. But because the USC fans WANTED to believe in and root for Lane, but his ego and arrogance made it impossible for that to happen. And the problems that began on Lane's watch carried over for YEARS and took down multiple coaches who were trying to stop the bleeding.
 
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razrcane said:
We can go round and round about what is or isn't a strategy. The guy himself said it back in 2021. Did he say it and go this route bc he is lazy at recruiting. Sure it's possible. But acting like this wasn't a planned course when he articulated it back in 2021 is not really logical. I don't know if it has blown up in his face. One data point doesn't make or break. I look more at trends than one season.
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But the data point from 2006 proves he’s a good recruiter though, right? Lol.
 
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razrcane said:
We can go round and round about what is or isn't a strategy. The guy himself said it back in 2021. Did he say it and go this route bc he is lazy at recruiting. Sure it's possible. But acting like this wasn't a planned course when he articulated it back in 2021 is not really logical. I don't know if it has blown up in his face. One data point doesn't make or break. I look more at trends than one season.
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Dude.

It's not a strategy.

It's like saying "I really prefer sleeping on the sofa" after your wife tosses you out of the bedroom for clipping your toenails in bed.

I don't care what he said in 2021.

He hit the Portal hard last year because he had to. He only got 3 Top 247 recruits. And for the record, he got 18 HS commits...and then 17 Portal kids. So it was a crime of opportunity, because if the IC rules had stayed in place, he only would have been able to take 7 Portal kids.

So, yeah, this isn't a strategy. It's a seized opportunity. And good for him, I'm not knocking that.

But with the success that Lane has had, there is NO REASON he can't land better (and bigger) high school classes. Everyone else in the SEC can do it (except Vandy).
 
WanderFranco said:
I absolutely support Mario. You’ll be the clown still talking about MTSU when Mario turns this thing around. Meanwhile, your hero just had an epic collapse in year three.
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If im wrong miami is great again. No problem to me.

If youre wrong we have at leasr 6 more years of sucking.
 
I mean, maybe "Portal" fixes this in 2023, but the alums might be concerned about where Ole Miss is within the SEC recruiting hierarchy:

2023 (so far):
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2022:
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2021:
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2020:
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