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A Few Guys Arguing Non-Stop [F/K/A "Let’s check on Lane Kiffen"]

Rellyrell said:
U’re mental gymnastics to defend a guy is quite amazing. If ur physical gymnastics was half as good as ur mental gymnastics, u would be the defending gold medalist every Olympics.

Did Freeze just get there, yes or no? BTW, AU class was 21st last season, & I’m pretty sure they were out the top 20 b4 he arrived.

And would I have Kiffin as a top 25 recruiter based upon all his class rankings? How about we examine him as a recruiter. Now, do me a favor:

1. I want u to look at how many TOTAL players he’s been responsible for recruiting

2. I want u to click on each player & see the yr they committed & then compare that to his HC resume.

Lane Kiffin All Time Recruits

247sports.com 247sports.com
Click to expand...
Freeze???? One of the dirtiest people in football. Come on man


He brought in 2 top 5 classes. Please break down to me how he isnt a good recruiter. Ive provided article after article. I need evidence broke down proving he sucks at recruiting.

Mental gymnastics? Lol. Rell youre much smarter than that.

He brought in 2 classes ranked higher than mario did this year.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
I'm not going to go too far with this tangent, but one of the biggest sticking points for about 20 pages has been your inability to acknowledge the OVERALL state of a program when a coach steps in. Some are in great shape, some are in terrible shape. And USC was on one HELLUVA recruiting roll when Lane was hired.

No comparisons. No tangents. No worthless "but X wins last year and Y wins this year" nonsense.

Not every coaching job opportunity is created equal.
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Lmao get him some milk


www.kpcc.org

USC to be banned from bowl games, lose scholarships

The NCAA will ban the USC football team from bowl games for two years and strip it of 20 scholarships for rules violations, the Los Angeles Times reported today, citing a source with knowledge of the situation.
www.kpcc.org www.kpcc.org
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
Correct. He brought in better classes than mario did this season. Twice.


Again sorry i was off by 2 spots.
Click to expand...


This is why everyone can see that you are an emotional trainwreck over your Lane Train man-crush.

I complimented you on finally answering a direct question with a direct answer. You couldn't accept the minor victory. You HAD to make it about your feelings. You HAD to make it a comparison to Mario WHEN IT WASN'T A COMPARISON TO MARIO.

Did Lane Kiffin bring in a #1 class at USC?

No.

Thank you. No further questions.
 
Rellyrell said:
U’re mental gymnastics to defend a guy is quite amazing. If ur physical gymnastics was half as good as ur mental gymnastics, u would be the defending gold medalist every Olympics.

Did Freeze just get there, yes or no? BTW, AU class was 21st last season, & I’m pretty sure they were out the top 20 b4 he arrived.

And would I have Kiffin as a top 25 recruiter based upon all his class rankings? How about we examine him as a recruiter. Now, do me a favor:

1. I want u to look at how many TOTAL players he’s been responsible for recruiting

2. I want u to click on each player & see the yr they committed & then compare that to his HC resume.

Lane Kiffin All Time Recruits

247sports.com 247sports.com
Click to expand...


Don't forget:

Freeze has done an amazing job of recruiting at Auburn, AND HE'S NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO USE HIS SOCIAL MEDIA LIKE LANE DOES...




Fair warning, that was a bit of sarcasm, for humorous purposes. That was not an intentional tangent or comparison designed to elicit an ACTUAL response.

It was a joke, people...
 
TheOriginalCane said:
This is why everyone can see that you are an emotional trainwreck over your Lane Train man-crush.

I complimented you on finally answering a direct question with a direct answer. You couldn't accept the minor victory. You HAD to make it about your feelings. You HAD to make it a comparison to Mario WHEN IT WASN'T A COMPARISON TO MARIO.

Did Lane Kiffin bring in a #1 class at USC?

No.

Thank you. No further questions.
Click to expand...
emotional? Lol

You invited me to meet up over football talk. Thats being emotional.


Why haven't you taken the bet since you know who the better coach is?
 
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crossover22[]_[] said:
Lmao get him some milk


www.kpcc.org

USC to be banned from bowl games, lose scholarships

The NCAA will ban the USC football team from bowl games for two years and strip it of 20 scholarships for rules violations, the Los Angeles Times reported today, citing a source with knowledge of the situation.
www.kpcc.org www.kpcc.org
Click to expand...


Good lord. Not only are your porsts really stupid, but they simply do not reflect reality.

I've never said that Lane didn't have any challenges to overcome. But your lack of ACTUAL knowledge about how college football ACTUALLY works (outside of your genius-level ability to google Rivals rankings) is laid bare by your "microphone drop" of an article about lost scholarships.

WHAT Lane inherited at USC...reputationally...organizationally...competitively...was a freaking well-oiled machine. And, hey, Lane is entitled to tinker. And, yes, Lane has some limitations that he has to work around.

But he didn't have to build USC up. Pete Carroll did that.

And (at my own peril by making a comparison) this is a different situation from what Butch inherited at Miami. Because while Butch ALSO had scholarship limitations, he also inherited a broken and bankrupt recruiting operation from Erickson. What Butch and Pete Garcia built was on a level comparable to what Pete Carroll built at USC.

And what Coker accomplished in his first few years at UM was comparable to what Kiffin accomplished in his first few years at USC. Except Coker has a ring.
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
I was wrong based on a article i read.

He brought in the number 3 ranked class twice.



He obviously sucks as a recruiter to bring in 2 top 5 classes.
Click to expand...

Listen, I’m not right about everything, but I tend to base majority of my post on tangible, provable facts vs. emotions. There’s nothing u or any other Kiffin fan boy can tell me about his tenure & time at SC b/c I was part of it w/ a couple of recruits. How he was fired was over reactive, I agree, but it was built up frustration for acting like an entitled prick who didn’t have to put in work.

I’ll repeat what I said b4; when Kiffin is coaching under someone, his work ethic on the recruiting trail is night & day different than him running the show b/c he has no choice. Kiffin is a great #2, but he’s a ?able #1. He would run circles at the G5 level b/c he’s got a great offensive mind, but he’s a smarter than u guy, which is y he struggles against good teams. Always have, always will ala the other CIS favorite Diaz, Manny.

For the umpteenth time, I’m not a Mario fan, but I’m not going to regard his time as a P5 coach as insignificant, nor am I going to hold him hostage for coaching at arguably the worst program in FBS from OVER A DECADE AGO. I give all 1st yr coaches here a mulligan, b/c since Larry Coker, no new coach have stepped in to an ideal situation. I vehemently disagreed w/ hiring Shannon & Diaz b/c both were part of the problems of their predecessors, but even yr 1 I was semi lenient.

So b4 anyone ever accuse me of being a Mario Slurper, Im not. My only gripe w/ u & the other antis r the excruciating task of defending & making excuses for other program’s coaches while getting ur jimmies on bashing ur own.
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
emotional? Lol

You invited me to meet up over football talk. Thats being emotional.


Why haven't you taken the bet since you know who the better coach is?
Click to expand...


I did not "invite" you to do anything. YOU made the (false) claim that I would not speak to you "in person" the way I spoke to you on this board. Which, if I wanted to descend to your level, is obviously you implying that I would somehow fear your physical prowess and violence, that there would be SOME MYSTERIOUS REASON why I would not say things to you in public that I say on this board.

Moving along, I said that you would be welcome to test that (incorrect) hypothesis by meeting me in person. Where does "over football talk" come from? I made a joke, an intentional joke, a joke that EVEYRONE ELSE EXCEPT YOU recognized.

As for "bets", what a joke. You are a joke of a person. You are not serious. You are not intelligent. You are not a person of consequence or importance.

Why you think ANYONE would take your "wanna make a bet" proposition seriously is beyond me. Sure, alllllll of the discussions on this board could just be solved by some dipsh!te saying "wanna make a bet", and when the other person doesn't respond, the dipsh!te runs around with his hands in the air declaring victory?

Seriously?

In nearly 25 years of posting across multiple boards, I've never once accepted a "wanna make a bet" offer. That's a game that second graders engage in. Try again. Or try harder.
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
Click to expand...
We get it. You REALLY like Lane Kiffin yet despise Mario. Is stern criticism of MC fair after the season we just had ? No doubt. There are concerns moving forward, but Lane hypothetically being here wouldn’t guarantee us anything other than a higher scoring offense and better year 1 record.
 
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crossover22[]_[] said:
Freeze???? One of the dirtiest people in football. Come on man


He brought in 2 top 5 classes. Please break down to me how he isnt a good recruiter. Ive provided article after article. I need evidence broke down proving he sucks at recruiting.

Mental gymnastics? Lol. Rell youre much smarter than that.

He brought in 2 classes ranked higher than mario did this year.
Click to expand...

I literally gave u Kiffin’s recruiting list.

But humor me: Do you think Kiffin was recruiting at a clean program at SC? Do you think Ole Miss all of sudden became clean? U do realize Ole Miss was dirty w/ Houston Nutt, too, right?

Do u think Freeze was any dirtier than any other SEC coach? Listen, u can’t keep doing this. It’s OK to be infatuated w/ Kiffin’s personality, & his offense, but continuing to make excuses for him? No bueno. U know what really irks me about his time at SC, & the excuses used to defend his time there? Here’s a fun fact:

-During SC’s sanctions, Kiffin went 18-7. I pointed out before, this 18-7 was impressive, but it was a team still filled w/ Carroll’s recruits as the leaders. When the last of Carroll’s players left, Kiffin went 10-8 AFTER the sanctions. No one ever speaks on that; they tell a half story.

There’s two coaches some on this board will die for even though they’ve not won chit in their lives: Kiffin & Leach (RIP)
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Good lord. Not only are your porsts really stupid, but they simply do not reflect reality.

I've never said that Lane didn't have any challenges to overcome. But your lack of ACTUAL knowledge about how college football ACTUALLY works (outside of your genius-level ability to google Rivals rankings) is laid bare by your "microphone drop" of an article about lost scholarships.

WHAT Lane inherited at USC...reputationally...organizationally...competitively...was a freaking well-oiled machine. And, hey, Lane is entitled to tinker. And, yes, Lane has some limitations that he has to work around.

But he didn't have to build USC up. Pete Carroll did that.

And (at my own peril by making a comparison) this is a different situation from what Butch inherited at Miami. Because while Butch ALSO had scholarship limitations, he also inherited a broken and bankrupt recruiting operation from Erickson. What Butch and Pete Garcia built was on a level comparable to what Pete Carroll built at USC.

And what Coker accomplished in his first few years at UM was comparable to what Kiffin accomplished in his first few years at USC. Except Coker has a ring.
Click to expand...
I have been reading most of this thread and I do agree with some of things you have said. I also agree with some of the posts @crossover22[]_[] has made. Both of you have some valid points to your arguments.

However, I don't agree with your last statement. Two totally different situations. Coker took over the most loaded and talented team in the history of college football. He did indeed win the championship immediately, as expected. Coker had a lot more success in his first few years, but slowly ran us into the ground. Lane took over a good USC team, but nowhere on the talent level of 2001 Canes. That USC team was also put on probation before Lane took over and several key players transferred before the season began. They lost scholarships and bowl eligibility immediately. It was not possible for Lane to have the success like Coker.

Overall, Lane still failed at USC. I think Lanes situation at USC is more comparable to Butch's situation at UM. Both guys taking over a good team, but already on probation and having sanctions already imposed. Started out decent for both, despite the probation. Crashed on the 3rd year for both (as the loss of scholarships were at peak). Obviously, Lane was fired 5 games into 4th year while Butch was retained. Guess we will never know how it would have played out at USC.

This is not a shot at Mario, this is more of a knock on Coker. Mario is doing some great things right now with this recruiting class. This is what he's getting paid the big bucks to do. I just get annoyed when Coker is compared to any competent coach, just because he has a natty.

To make a long story short: Kiffen and Mario>>>>>>>Shannon/Diaz/Golden>>>>>>>Nathaniel Hackett>>>>>>Rich Kotite>>>>>>me>>>>Larry Coker.
 
Rellyrell said:
Listen, I’m not right about everything, but I tend to base majority of my post on tangible, provable facts vs. emotions. There’s nothing u or any other Kiffin fan boy can tell me about his tenure & time at SC b/c I was part of it w/ a couple of recruits. How he was fired was over reactive, I agree, but it was built up frustration for acting like an entitled prick who didn’t have to put in work.

I’ll repeat what I said b4; when Kiffin is coaching under someone, his work ethic on the recruiting trail is night & day different than him running the show b/c he has no choice. Kiffin is a great #2, but he’s a ?able #1. He would run circles at the G5 level b/c he’s got a great offensive mind, but he’s a smarter than u guy, which is y he struggles against good teams. Always have, always will ala the other CIS favorite Diaz, Manny.

For the umpteenth time, I’m not a Mario fan, but I’m not going to regard his time as a P5 coach as insignificant, nor am I going to hold him hostage for coaching at arguably the worst program in FBS from OVER A DECADE AGO. I give all 1st yr coaches here a mulligan, b/c since Larry Coker, no new coach have stepped in to an ideal situation. I vehemently disagreed w/ hiring Shannon & Diaz b/c both were part of the problems of their predecessors, but even yr 1 I was semi lenient.

So b4 anyone ever accuse me of being a Mario Slurper, Im not. My only gripe w/ u & the other antis r the excruciating task of defending & making excuses for other program’s coaches while getting ur jimmies on bashing ur own.
Click to expand...
I dont believe ive ever called you a mario slurper.


Did lane inherit 20 scholarship losses and 2 bowl bans from pete? Im not claiming he is the best recruiter. Never will. He is a top 25 recruiter and thats based on his class rankings.
 
Rellyrell said:
I literally gave u Kiffin’s recruiting list.

But humor me: Do you think Kiffin was recruiting at a clean program at SC? Do you think Ole Miss all of sudden became clean? U do realize Ole Miss was dirty w/ Houston Nutt, too, right?

Do u think Freeze was any dirtier than any other SEC coach? Listen, u can’t keep doing this. It’s OK to be infatuated w/ Kiffin’s personality, & his offense, but continuing to make excuses for him? No bueno. U know what really irks me about his time at SC, & the excuses used to defend his time there? Here’s a fun fact:

-During SC’s sanctions, Kiffin went 18-7. I pointed out before, this 18-7 was impressive, but it was a team still filled w/ Carroll’s recruits as the leaders. When the last of Carroll’s players left, Kiffin went 10-8 AFTER the sanctions. No one ever speaks on that; they tell a half story.

There’s two coaches some on this board will die for even though they’ve not won chit in their lives: Kiffin & Leach (RIP)
Click to expand...
Yes record went down as sanctions hit. Like most places its ever happened.


Ive never said anyone is clean but what happened to freeze?


You gave me a list of players. I asked if hes a top 25 recruiter. He has 2 top 5 classes as a head coach. Then it fell to 8 i believe. Still top 10. Recruits in the top 25 at ole miss.

No information has been brought foward to show he isnt a good recruiter.
 
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crossover22[]_[] said:
Yes record went down as sanctions hit. Like most places its ever happened.


Ive never said anyone is clean but what happened to freeze?


You gave me a list of players. I asked if hes a top 25 recruiter. He has 2 top 5 classes as a head coach. Then it fell to 8 i believe. Still top 10. Recruits in the top 25 at ole miss.

No information has been brought foward to show he isnt a good recruiter.
Click to expand...

Umm, no. His record was actually better when SC was under sanctions. Lol.

And the reason I provided ppl he actually recruited b/c that actually matters.
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
I dont believe ive ever called you a mario slurper.


Did lane inherit 20 scholarship losses and 2 bowl bans from pete? Im not claiming he is the best recruiter. Never will. He is a top 25 recruiter and thats based on his class rankings.
Click to expand...

Yes, he did…and during that period he had the #3, & #3 classes. Lol
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I did not "invite" you to do anything. YOU made the (false) claim that I would not speak to you "in person" the way I spoke to you on this board. Which, if I wanted to descend to your level, is obviously you implying that I would somehow fear your physical prowess and violence, that there would be SOME MYSTERIOUS REASON why I would not say things to you in public that I say on this board.

Moving along, I said that you would be welcome to test that (incorrect) hypothesis by meeting me in person. Where does "over football talk" come from? I made a joke, an intentional joke, a joke that EVEYRONE ELSE EXCEPT YOU recognized.

As for "bets", what a joke. You are a joke of a person. You are not serious. You are not intelligent. You are not a person of consequence or importance.

Why you think ANYONE would take your "wanna make a bet" proposition seriously is beyond me. Sure, alllllll of the discussions on this board could just be solved by some dipsh!te saying "wanna make a bet", and when the other person doesn't respond, the dipsh!te runs around with his hands in the air declaring victory?

Seriously?

In nearly 25 years of posting across multiple boards, I've never once accepted a "wanna make a bet" offer. That's a game that second graders engage in. Try again. Or try harder.
Click to expand...
A joke. No one recognized it and i said you can call me whatever you want after you said you would call me a bunch of names. I said thats fine as you wouldn't say it to me.

25 years congrats. You wont take the bet because you know im right and your wrong. Simple ****.
 
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crossover22[]_[] said:
So scholarship losses dont hurt at all. Thats your point? Really


Why does butch get credit here then.
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O-M-G

U don’t see the irony that his best yrs came under sanctions WITH Pete’s players, & his worst yrs came after the sanctions with HIS players?

Dude, imma be honest, u can have the last word, but u’re not going to win this back & forth on this subject at SC b/c while u were admiring from afar, I was actually here. So pls, carry on & u can debate w/ urself or any other who decide to respond to ur last post.
 
SayWhat said:
Under his control?

Ole Miss, on paper, is at a disadvantage talent wise in most games. Those last 6 games, you really only expect them to play or contend with 3 of those schools, the others they're supposed to lose.

Miss State, rivalry game and a toss up. Went to the wire and they lost.

Arkansas, got beat like a drum on defense and put up yards, but couldn't score enough.

TT, bowl games always offer surprises. Hey, we use the term meaningless game, so can we use it here?

Bama and LSU, they should never be in that game but both were within a touchdown. Talent wise, they shouldn't be on the same field as A&M, but everyone of A&M'w opponents were and they won.

It wasn't a good end to the season, but one guy gets more out of less while the other struggled with teams that shouldn't even be on the same field. If I was an Ole Miss fan, I would've been disappointed with losing to Arkansas and TT, rralise State is a toss up always, and expected to lose against the other three, but we won one.
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Fact is Lane can get more out of less bc of his offensive prowess. Can he recruit at a level that allows him to compete at a high level? Not so far. Throw last nights bowl game out. He was a teenager playing madden, it didn’t matter.

Mario continuously gets less out of more, and need multiple years with good assistants to win.

Nothing wrong with either style if you can make them work long term. But to defend either side of this coin without giving an inch to the other, is disingenuous and shows your feelings toward one coach or the other is clouding your judgement. Neither coach has won big and as it stands today, isn’t even close to doing it any time in the near future. So it really shouldn’t even matter.
 
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