A Few Guys Arguing Non-Stop [F/K/A "Let’s check on Lane Kiffen"]

And don't get me wrong, I'm willing to listen to "reasons" and "explanations".

But for Lane, THUS FAR, he has had one good class at Ole Miss (bump class) and three classes that are in the bottom 3 of the SEC.

And we can sit here and "blame Mario" or act like Lane's classes are better than the rankings...but at the end of the day, SEC FANBASES CARE ABOUT HOW YOU DO AGAINST THE SEC.

I know I've got plenty of people who will back me up on this, but the Gaytor Star-***** fans are constantly griping about how "Top 10" classes are not good enough if they still finish behind Bama and UGa and LSU and Tennessee in recruiting.
 
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Dude.

It's not a strategy.

It's like saying "I really prefer sleeping on the sofa" after your wife tosses you out of the bedroom for clipping your toenails in bed.

I don't care what he said in 2021.

He hit the Portal hard last year because he had to. He only got 3 Top 247 recruits. And for the record, he got 18 HS commits...and then 17 Portal kids. So it was a crime of opportunity, because if the IC rules had stayed in place, he only would have been able to take 7 Portal kids.

So, yeah, this isn't a strategy. It's a seized opportunity. And good for him, I'm not knocking that.

But with the success that Lane has had, there is NO REASON he can't land better (and bigger) high school classes. Everyone else in the SEC can do it (except Vandy).
I guess we should define the term strategy. A strategy is a general plan or set of plans intended to achieve something, especially over a long period/a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim (according to the dictionary).

He articulated his plan in 2021. The plan was to focus more on the portal/go heavy on the portal etc. Hence that was and still is his strategy. You say it's a seized opportunity. But a strategy and seizing an opportunity are not mutually exclusive. In fact strategies can be used to seize opportunities.

At this point I'm more interested in whether what he's doing, whatever you want to call it (strategy/lazy recruiting/seizing opportunities), will work long term in this new environment.
 
OK, I'm going to simplify this, because I cannot reproduce hours worth of conversations I've had with actual USC alums over the past 20 years.

You (like crossover) are overly focused on "record" as an indication of "how good" or "how bad" a team is at any given moment.

I'm not sure where you get this "trending down from being elite". Sure, they were 9-4 under the heat and distraction of an NCAA investigation. But the year before they went 12-1. You had SEVEN YEARS IN A ROW where they finished AT LEAST #4. And then ONE TIME Carroll goes 9-4 and that constitutes a "trend down from being elite"?

No sir.

Also, I fully reject the crossover "one metric" model for analyzing things. Anyone who went to USC or who has followed USC closely can tell you what USC is when they are "on" and what happens when they are not on. And Carroll had re-established a DOMINANT position for USC on the west coast. That's the truth, no matter if he dropped a couple extra games in 2009 that he didn't ordinarily drop.

Again...the alums...the recruiting...the resources...the celebrity...the dominance...the expectations...all of the things that makes USC "special" when they are on top of the world...that's what was there when Carroll left and Kiffin took over. All of those things did not suddenly disappear in ONE 9-4 season (that came right after a 12-1 season).

As for Lane being let go, again, I beg of you...do NOT subscribe to the crossover "one metric" model. It clearly was not about Ws and Ls. USC knew that there would be struggles due to the sanctions. There were a LOT of internal problems, and I was hearing about them regularly because one of my friends & co-workers was a former USC athlete. Kiffin lost the respect and control of the team, it's just that simple. And the USC administration not only did not have confidence that he COULD get it back, but also whether he was even willing to make the effort. THAT is why he was left on the tarmac, he wouldn't even do the bare minimum to try to get things back under control.

Nobody denies that "sanctions" are a part of any reasonable explanation for lack of success. But Kiffin made it ALL about that. He denied that any of the other team-culture issues were the problem. He refused to make changes and get help for what was beginning to spiral out of control.

And no matter what crossover tries to tell you...the vast majority of USC fans are still sore about Kiffin. Not because he "betrayed" USC the way Lane betrayed Oakland and Tennessee. But because the USC fans WANTED to believe in and root for Lane, but his ego and arrogance made it impossible for that to happen. And the problems that began on Lane's watch carried over for YEARS and took down multiple coaches who were trying to stop the bleeding.
I think we are in agreement here on the reason Lane was let go. I don't think it was about wins and losses. I do believe it was about his ego and arrogance. We will probably never know all the reasons that led to him being fired, but I agree 100% that he was full of himself. Maybe not a bad X's and O's guy, but pretty toxic in general and other areas for a head coach. I don't think this can be disputed.

He seems to have matured a bit once he joined Alabama's staff. Does he still have an ego and is he still arrogant? Yes. Is Lane overrated by some? Absolutely. Is Lane a horrible coach? No
 
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Lane’s record at Ole Miss is better than Freeze’s. Even if you don’t count all the forfeited games. Hugh’s best year was 10-3 and. #10 finish. Lane went 10-3 with a #11 finish, so I guess he’s got the advantage there.
In terms of crootin, like I said, Freeze showed the Ole Miss brass what they could be.
 
I think there was more than one point that trended in that direction.

Yeah from his early yrs at SC, which I’ve already clearly defined & have shown his trajectory since, but let’s not let any of that get in the way; let’s hold on to the fact he won recruiter of the year in 2006 & secured his only two top 5 classes 11 going on 12 yrs ago. Lol

Boy, if Miami actually had the fan base like Kiffin fans, this site might become CIS again.
 
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Im not *****ing about anything. I find it all hilarious how bad yalls football takes are.

Show me where i whined please mr titanic.


You dont have to be in this thread if you dont want to. You choose to suck off mario with no evidence to prove hes a good coach.


Keep avoiding the bet i see. Wonder why????
Mr. Titanic??....I beg your pardon....
 
I guess we should define the term strategy. A strategy is a general plan or set of plans intended to achieve something, especially over a long period/a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim (according to the dictionary).

He articulated his plan in 2021. The plan was to focus more on the portal/go heavy on the portal etc. Hence that was and still is his strategy. You say it's a seized opportunity. But a strategy and seizing an opportunity are not mutually exclusive. In fact strategies can be used to seize opportunities.

At this point I'm more interested in whether what he's doing, whatever you want to call it (strategy/lazy recruiting/seizing opportunities), will work long term in this new environment.


Look, you can try to play semantics games on what constitutes a "strategy". Even your own definition indicates a "plan to achieve". Which is something you do in advance, and not when you've run out of options. I would guess that General Custer's final "strategy" was to fight to the death, to fight to the very last man, but I don't think that was his "strategy" a few days earlier.

I've already posted snapshots, Lane's recruiting classes have been rated among the three worst in the SEC for 3 of his 4 years. Only his "bump class" made it up to 6th best in the SEC. And with 8 SEC games each year, Lane isn't going to be earning contract extensions by beating up on 4 OOC teams each year.

I do not deny that he has done fairly well with the little talent he has assembled. He played the Portal brilliantly for ONE YEAR (so far, and Year 2 is To Be Determined).

Here's what he's done thus far:

Y2 (bump class, best class) - 25 HS/JC recruits and 4 transfers
Y3 (Rise of the Portal) - 18 HS/JC recruits and 17 transfers
Y4 (still in progress) - 12 HS/JC recruits and 6 transfers (thus far)

Now, the reason I discount whether Lane will get many more HS/JC recruits for 2023 is that (a) there aren't many left, and (b) there aren't many who list Ole Miss as a finalist. But I certainly do not deny that he can rack up more transfers.

So you're trying to act like this is a "strategy". But let's analyze Y3 (last year). Because the vast majority of the 17 transfers selected Ole Miss as a transfer desination in 2022, after most of the HS recruiting was OVER. Only TWO Ole Miss transfers chose Ole Miss in December 2021, while the high school class was still being recruited.

And, as I suspected, exactly TEN of the Ole Miss transfers chose Ole Miss from the period from January 29, 2022 (a few days before the second high school Signing Day) to June 2022.

Which means that Lane's ORIGINAL "strategy" was to sign 18 HS/JC kids and then take 7 transfers. The OTHER 10 transfers came about because of a desperate CHANGE in strategy that was made possible by the suspension of IC rules.

And now we fast forward to the current time, when we already know that it is POSSIBLE to take 18 HS kids and 17 transfers. And yet...Lane...voluntarily(?)...cuts his HS/JC signees by 50%, only taking TWELVE?

It just doesn't make any rational sense. You can call it a "strategy", but he did it ONE TIME when he couldn't sign more HS kids and the IC rules were suspended. Yay. NOT A STRATEGY. More like a lurch, because the original plan didn't work out.

As for this year? What, is his strategy to take 25 Portal transfers? Fine. Let's see...


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Yeah from his early yrs at SC, which I’ve already clearly defined & have shown his trajectory since, but let’s not let any of that get in the way; let’s hold on to the fact he won recruiter of the year in 2006 & secured his only two top 5 classes 11 going on 12 yrs ago. Lol

Boy, if Miami actually had the fan base like Kiffin fans, this site might become CIS again.
Maybe mario should try opening up the offense and winning some games and people would jump on board.

Remember the ND game under richt? Remember the atmosphere? Yea it was because we were winning.


Not looking like fsu and mtsu *****.


In lanes career hes had what 2 classes outside the top 25? With like 3 or 4 inside the top 10. Yea he sucks at recruiting.
 
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Maybe mario should try opening up the offense and winning some games and people would jump on board.

Remember the ND game under richt? Remember the atmosphere? Yea it was because we were winning.


Not looking like fsu and mtsu *****.


In lanes career hes had what 2 classes outside the top 25? With like 3 or 4 inside the top 10. Yea he sucks at recruiting.

If he doesn't suck at recruiting and doesn't suck at coaching, why was he 1-5 with losses against garbage like Mississippi State, Arkansas, and Texas Tech? A guy who is a good recruiter and a great coach, like you claim, doesn't get blown out by Arkansas.
 
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If he doesn't suck at recruiting and doesn't suck at coaching, why was he 1-5 with losses against garbage like Mississippi State, Arkansas, and Texas Tech? A guy who is a good recruiter and a great coach, like you claim, doesn't get blown out by Arkansas.
This is really your argument?


How does a elite recruiter and good coach. Mario. Get blown the **** out by mtsu, duke, pitt, fsu, and score 14 points in 4 overtimes against Virginia.

Way worse than lanes losses. Not even close.
 
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