5* or Player Devolpment

[CoCaneHead]

Developing 5stars isn't a option??

 

[Miami82]

in the 80s...OK and Neb even ND was still getting the pick of the litter from around the country...while Miami and FSU were building speed over size and stats from HS....

Miami changed the game...NEB and OK would still be in the wishbone if not for Miami. Texas still gets tons of 5 star studs what one ship in 40 years??

Luke K from BC 3 star kid..as a rookie led the NFL in tackles..was not heavily recruited and the fins should have taken him...

its development its playing as one as a team etc..aka Boise/UTAH or even temple under Golden...what is scary guys like Urban that can win with 2 & 3 stars then you give them a Thoroughbred like FL or OSU and ships will happen....

I want 3 years of Golden without his hands tied, clean recruiting and he will have us rolling like 2001 again....bank it

So Golden gets six years before you actually start questioning this team and the misses in recruiting? I guess there will always be excuse makers amongst our fans.

Sure he needs 6 years...I did not say he would not win in 2013 or even compete, I said give him 3 clean years after this mess and we can be like the 2001 guys with dominating games and great recruiting classes Not sure how old you are...we were pretty good in 2001 without Luther and Tim running their mouths and yes we were bashed for okay classes back then we never cracked the top 10 from 97 -2001..yet FSU and FL did, ...

I know some of you watch a game and when we are getting beat by 21 aka BC game post the hate at Golden and staff...then when the game was over ride the bandwagon...those are scum fans in my opinion..and some guys just want al to fail for obvious reasons stated by the hack racist Luther...

LOL, I'm sure you became a fan back in 00/01, and from your post above are clueless as how we got there.

I was at the game in 83 when we beat Nebraska. So that should give you some reference of how long I've been a fan.

You're the typical fan that loves the coach, not what is best for the team and the U itself. I want Golden to succeed, not for the sake of Golden, but because I want my U back on top. Golden hasn't shown anything close to Butch yet. If the D doesn't have you worried, then you are truly are watching this team with your eyes closed.

 

[Gamineal]

The answer is talent. It's always talent. Look back at our recruiting classes for the past 10 years. The best player in the class has never been a 3 star, it's always been a 4 or 5 star.

Believe me - I'm sure Al Golden is more excited about a Stacy Coley who has a rep for being a little lazy, the Herb Waters who has a rep for being a hard worker.

That's not a knock on either - just a fact that coaches want talented players with higher ceilings. you want a 5 star over a 3 star almost every time. You want a 1st round draft pick over a 3rd round draft pick almost every time.

eddie johnson says hello...Stephen Morris says hello,...two huge 3 star guys that lead our team last year...over 4 star guys, do you want jacory or Stephen,,,

Henderson is a 5 star?? Porter a 4 star, Forston was a 5 star? Colin McCarthy was a 3 star..playing very well in the NFL,,,Brandin Harris 5 star...cant find the field..

I do agree you need studs, but football players are just that football players...

There's tons of 3 stars that have worked out great, and tons of 4 & 5 stars that have been busts. We could each pick out individual players to prove that point. But the greater % of the time, it's the 4 and 5 stars that make you an elite team, while a greater % of the time 3 stars become role players rather than elite players.

Look at our roster right now. Going into this season, would you rather have our best 4/5 star player or our best 2/3 star player at each position?

QB: Stephen Morris or Kevin Olsen?
RB: Duke Johnson or Dallas Crawford?
TE: Beau Sandland or Clive Walford?
WR: Stacy Coley or Phillip Dorsett?
OL: Seantrel Henderson or Malcolm Bunche?
DE: Anthony Chickilo or Shayon Green?
DT: Curtis Porter or Olsen Pierre?
LB: Denzel Perryman or Eddie Johnson?
CB: Tracy Howard or Ladarius Gunter?
S: Deon Bush or Rayshawn Jenkins?


Morris obviously, but then maybe Dorsett? Player Developement is huge, but having talented players will always be more important.

Fully agree that more impact players so called 4&5 star guys are needed..but we are not there yet and development is all we have

 

[killa1storm]

People act like you can't have both look at Bama, they get 5 star talent and they develop (or as many suspect, juice) them
Same thing with LSU
4-5 star talent is great, but if they end up like USC or FSU in recent years or even our class of 2008, I rather have2-3 star guys who I know the coaches can develop

More than anything, Bama does their homework better than anyone else when it comes to fully evaluating the 4* and 5* talent they sign. Because of this and not just better player "development", they have fewer busts than just about anyone else.

nope.

it's saban's oversigning which basically allows him to never have a miss. he oversigns and the ones who don't hack it are cut and replaced. so when he does miss on a recruit, it doesn't hurt a position for a year or two like it does most teams. in essence, saban is signing a full class more than his competitors. people say they 'develop' better than anybody but forget those 30+ kids who get cut over a two year span when they don't pan out.

 

[monkey1371]

Look you need both....

Tressel and Beamer were both basically the same exact coach.

The difference was that at OSU you get Top 5-10 classes every year(according to stars)......At VT your getting classes ranked between 15-25.

VT was maxed out at winning 10-11 games and winning a crappy ACC every year and losing to every quality OOC team it has played....while...
OSU was winning 11-12 games and in the MNC hunt every year under Tressel...

Consistently.....Player development alone has a max out factor if you can't sign top 5-10 classes most years....you might catch lightning in a bottle like Auburn with a transcendent QB.....But look at all the participants in BCS title games....over 95%+ had and average class ranking by stars in the top 10.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Give me supreme talent.

Look at Tiger Woods. He messes with his swing and messes with Perkins waitresses but none of it matters with so much talent and therefore margin for error.

I'll take every 5 star kid and let the rest of you worry about vague phrases like player development or true Cane.

So youd rather have Ryan Moore and Lance Leggett over Leonard Hankerson and Tommy Streeter?

Willie Williams over Sean Spence?

Kyle Wright over Stephen Morris?

Tyler McMeans over Brandon Linder?

Marcus Forston over Olsen Pierre?

I would take Marcus Forston over Olsen Pierre... Forston was injured his entire career here with the exception being the 201o season where he had a strong campaign... Pierre shows potential but he hasn't done much... Yea he leaped over an olinman but lets bring some production... Sacks, tfls, hurries... That being, I understand what you are say, but it can work both ways...We can point to Cam, Stafford, Tebow, as being elite qbs and it worked out for them... We can point to Orlando Pace as an elite recruit and its working out for OSU... There are and will be higher ranked players who perform better than our under the radar lower recruits... You need both... You can't just pick and choose to validate your point... Its how bad the players want to succeed and luck(as far as being healthy)...

 

[Ethnicsands]

Forston sucked. One of the most overrated kids we've brought in in a long time. Lazy, out of shape, meh attitude. I'd take Pierre.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Forston sucked. One of the most overrated kids we've brought in in a long time. Lazy, out of shape, meh attitude. I'd take Pierre.

Forston didn't suck... Lets be objective... The kid had 1 healthy season in 2010... He didn't give us AA numbers but he gave us a solid production... The guy was just unhealthy... Too be fair, Pierre hasn't had a seson better than Forston rookie year... Yea you can take him, but I'll take a healthy Forston over Pierre as of right now... It's funny we called him lazy, but Golden praise his worked ethic when he arrived (before his 2011 spring injury)...

 

[Ethnicsands]

Forston sucked. One of the most overrated kids we've brought in in a long time. Lazy, out of shape, meh attitude. I'd take Pierre.

Forston didn't suck... Lets be objective... The kid had 1 healthy season in 2010... He didn't give us AA numbers but he gave us a solid production... The guy was just unhealthy... Too be fair, Pierre hasn't had a seson better than Forston rookie year... Yea you can take him, but I'll take a healthy Forston over Pierre as of right now... It's funny we called him lazy, but Golden praise his worked ethic when he arrived (before his 2011 spring injury)...

Whatever. Golden was making nice, IMO. Forston was lazy, out of shape, and didn't go hard consistently. Pierre's had two years, was no where near physically ready when he got here, and IMO will have his final two years be more productive than any of Forston's years.

In all seriousness, if Forston weren't overrated coming out of MNW, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[Larry]

At a lower tier school, its all about player development.

At a school like Miami...it needs to be both. You need your self motivated super studs that are 5* at everything they do...you need those 3* kids that put in 5* work and push early, and seize opportunity when it presents itself.

At Miami, it can't be one or the other...it needs to be both.

 

[CaneSuger]

In regard to Eddie Johnson, doesn't player development include keeping a kid out of trouble. So far not good with Eddie.

Al has two players from temple in the NFL.

Delaware had two players in the SuperBowl.....so did D2 Washburn.

^
Truth.

 

[CaneSuger]

Forston sucked. One of the most overrated kids we've brought in in a long time. Lazy, out of shape, meh attitude. I'd take Pierre.

Forston didn't suck... Lets be objective... The kid had 1 healthy season in 2010... He didn't give us AA numbers but he gave us a solid production... The guy was just unhealthy... Too be fair, Pierre hasn't had a seson better than Forston rookie year... Yea you can take him, but I'll take a healthy Forston over Pierre as of right now... It's funny we called him lazy, but Golden praise his worked ethic when he arrived (before his 2011 spring injury)...

He sucked, and he continues to suck.

It is what it is.

 

[CaneSuger]

Look you need both....

Tressel and Beamer were both basically the same exact coach.

The difference was that at OSU you get Top 5-10 classes every year(according to stars)......At VT your getting classes ranked between 15-25.

VT was maxed out at winning 10-11 games and winning a crappy ACC every year and losing to every quality OOC team it has played....while...
OSU was winning 11-12 games and in the MNC hunt every year under Tressel...

Consistently.....Player development alone has a max out factor if you can't sign top 5-10 classes most years....you might catch lightning in a bottle like Auburn with a transcendent QB.....But look at all the participants in BCS title games....over 95%+ had and average class ranking by stars in the top 10.

VT should have been pulling the best kids out of Virginia. They never have.

Tressel owned Ohio recruiting. Ohio = Virginia as far as talent.

Ergo.... Tressel>Beamer.

 

[bomb]

Look you need both....

Tressel and Beamer were both basically the same exact coach.

The difference was that at OSU you get Top 5-10 classes every year(according to stars)......At VT your getting classes ranked between 15-25.

VT was maxed out at winning 10-11 games and winning a crappy ACC every year and losing to every quality OOC team it has played....while...
OSU was winning 11-12 games and in the MNC hunt every year under Tressel...

Consistently.....Player development alone has a max out factor if you can't sign top 5-10 classes most years....you might catch lightning in a bottle like Auburn with a transcendent QB.....But look at all the participants in BCS title games....over 95%+ had and average class ranking by stars in the top 10.

VT should have been pulling the best kids out of Virginia. They never have.

Tressel owned Ohio recruiting. Ohio = Virginia as far as talent.

Ergo.... Tressel>Beamer.

Ohio produces about 70 BCS signees a year, while VA produces about 45. In other words Ohio produces over 50% more BCS level players than VA. Its really not close. That said, VA certainly produces enough that the in-state schools should be stronger. Its a top 10 state for sure.

Also Virginia has two in-state major BCS powers fighting over those kids. OSU is the only show in town. They both have to deal with OOS schools.

 

[Genron]

I would rather have 5* that I could develop. But for real, you got to develop your players. If you do a great job you can mold those 4 and 3 star kids int 5 star players....**** even 2 star kids can become great in due time if they have it in their minds. You have to have a great staff though. Everyone has to buy in. I don't know if UM has a great defensive staff. Williams is.... and coach D struggles with game planning

 

[Ethnicsands]

At a lower tier school, its all about player development.

At a school like Miami...it needs to be both. You need your self motivated super studs that are 5* at everything they do...you need those 3* kids that put in 5* work and push early, and seize opportunity when it presents itself.

At Miami, it can't be one or the other...it needs to be both.

At a lower tier school, it's all about evaluations. The pool they are picking from has a much higher variance than that which the majors pick from. When you are scouting 2* and 3* kids, it's hit or miss. Pick badly and there ain't much your development program will do to make you competitive.