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5* or Player Devolpment

Some of it depends on your system. Why sign a 5* recruit if he's not going to fit your system?
 
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It's not an either/or situation. You need both if you want to bring home the hardware consistently. Remember when everyone was all over Grobe because he had a couple good seasons at Wake, but what's he doing now? Did he become a terrible coach all of a sudden? On the flip side, look at Texas. They have a ton of 4-5* talent and have severely underachieved. You need both.
 
jruiz said:
People act like you can't have both look at Bama, they get 5 star talent and they develop (or as many suspect, juice) them
Same thing with LSU
4-5 star talent is great, but if they end up like USC or FSU in recent years or even our class of 2008, I rather have2-3 star guys who I know the coaches can develop
Click to expand...

Says who? LSU gave us Glenn Dorsey and Jemarcus Russell. Patrick Peterson was an FL kid who i'm pretty sure was paid off and he's really the only consistent guy they have and that's reaching because I really don't think he's that great.

Bama gave us Mark Ingram who is a constantly hurt, Trent Richardson who is getting a pass for now due to his rookie year and new head coach who I believe can develop him. and Their only consistent player is Julio Jones.

If i'm missing something, PLEASE advise me. Cause I don't see where this "development" is.
 
jruiz said:
People act like you can't have both look at Bama, they get 5 star talent and they develop (or as many suspect, juice) them
Same thing with LSU
4-5 star talent is great, but if they end up like USC or FSU in recent years or even our class of 2008, I rather have2-3 star guys who I know the coaches can develop
Click to expand...
More than anything, Bama does their homework better than anyone else when it comes to fully evaluating the 4* and 5* talent they sign. Because of this and not just better player "development", they have fewer busts than just about anyone else.
 
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U Know said:
I'm more concern on the development aspect of these young players than the star rating. I hate the star rating system for the simple fact that you always going to have more 3* players than 4* and 5* players on a 85 man roster. So it's imperative that these so called 3* recruits develop into special players. If you look at the speech Micheal Irvin gave to the players before the spring game 2 years ago, he focused on the work ethic that was passed on to him from the older players and didn't want to let them down so they bust there ***. Ed Reed speech to the players a year ago was very similar and focused on the off season training and being a cohesive unit on and off the field. My point is Miami has never been the team that followed the star system, we were known for making guys STARS. I'm happy with whomever decide to sign tomorrow and hope they develop the mentality of the old school canes player and bust there *** in the off season. Hope Crawford and Dillard use the fan base being disappointed that Collins didn't come to TAKE there position as some sort of motivation. COMPETITION is key, but don't let NO FRESHMEN come take your position unless they flat out earned it.

* Also, I'm sure we have more 2-star and 3-star players in the NFL than we have 5-star...
Click to expand...

Exactly right. In Jimmy Johnson's first or second year, he was being panned for mediocre recruiting. He pointed out that a lot of the premier recruits never got any better once they got to college. He said he would rather recruit a kid who gets better and better with each practice.

This is almost an exact quote; I remember it very well. It was the hallmark of our recruiting, and why I'm not always enamored of the marquee players. As a friend of mine, truly an inside member of the Canes community and one of the few I knew who was permitted to go to every practice, the "marquee" players were not Miami players. I saw it happen time and again, with the big name kids going elsewhere and disappearing--Robert Strait to Baylor, Sterling Palmer to FSU, Paul Moore to FSU, Roman "Smoke" Nelson, Slip Watkins, etc. What did these kids ever do that was so great?There seemed to be so many more, I just can't remember them. Even that TE from Merritt Island, Derrick something or other, only caught a pass a game at Notre Dame. Very average career and the same with the Jets.
 
The fact is, the star system has always meant less with south Florida because the recruiting gurus have never been able to completely and thoroughly find and evaluate all the talent in south Florida. For one thing, there are too many big high schools. There are terrific talents in south Florida that only Miami seems to know about. Even Bobby Bowden remarked once that there so many big high schools it was hard to find every player. There are so many kids who could be 4 or 5 stars if they played anywhere else.

For years, Allen Wallace of SuperPrep was the acknowledged know-it-all on California football. If he didn't know about Gino Torretta of Pinole, CA, how is he going to know about all the talent in south Florida? Same with Emfingle, Phlegmiming, Nudleberger, and all the other writers who are fending off the unemployment line.
 
MetiSkeemz said:
jruiz said:
People act like you can't have both look at Bama, they get 5 star talent and they develop (or as many suspect, juice) them
Same thing with LSU
4-5 star talent is great, but if they end up like USC or FSU in recent years or even our class of 2008, I rather have2-3 star guys who I know the coaches can develop
Click to expand...

Says who? LSU gave us Glenn Dorsey and Jemarcus Russell. Patrick Peterson was an FL kid who i'm pretty sure was paid off and he's really the only consistent guy they have and that's reaching because I really don't think he's that great.

Bama gave us Mark Ingram who is a constantly hurt, Trent Richardson who is getting a pass for now due to his rookie year and new head coach who I believe can develop him. and Their only consistent player is Julio Jones.

If i'm missing something, PLEASE advise me. Cause I don't see where this "development" is.
Click to expand...

First of all your always gonn have a bust here and there no matter how good you are, second of all the "development" is in 3 championships in 4 years and a couple heisman finalists
 
TheMatador said:
U Know said:
I'm more concern on the development aspect of these young players than the star rating. I hate the star rating system for the simple fact that you always going to have more 3* players than 4* and 5* players on a 85 man roster. So it's imperative that these so called 3* recruits develop into special players. If you look at the speech Micheal Irvin gave to the players before the spring game 2 years ago, he focused on the work ethic that was passed on to him from the older players and didn't want to let them down so they bust there ***. Ed Reed speech to the players a year ago was very similar and focused on the off season training and being a cohesive unit on and off the field. My point is Miami has never been the team that followed the star system, we were known for making guys STARS. I'm happy with whomever decide to sign tomorrow and hope they develop the mentality of the old school canes player and bust there *** in the off season. Hope Crawford and Dillard use the fan base being disappointed that Collins didn't come to TAKE there position as some sort of motivation. COMPETITION is key, but don't let NO FRESHMEN come take your position unless they flat out earned it.

* Also, I'm sure we have more 2-star and 3-star players in the NFL than we have 5-star...
Click to expand...

Exactly right. In Jimmy Johnson's first or second year, he was being panned for mediocre recruiting. He pointed out that a lot of the premier recruits never got any better once they got to college. He said he would rather recruit a kid who gets better and better with each practice.

This is almost an exact quote; I remember it very well. It was the hallmark of our recruiting, and why I'm not always enamored of the marquee players. As a friend of mine, truly an inside member of the Canes community and one of the few I knew who was permitted to go to every practice, the "marquee" players were not Miami players. I saw it happen time and again, with the big name kids going elsewhere and disappearing--Robert Strait to Baylor, Sterling Palmer to FSU, Paul Moore to FSU, Roman "Smoke" Nelson, Slip Watkins, etc. What did these kids ever do that was so great?There seemed to be so many more, I just can't remember them. Even that TE from Merritt Island, Derrick something or other, only caught a pass a game at Notre Dame. Very average career and the same with the Jets.
Click to expand...

The Notre Dame TE you're referring to is Derrick Brown, who was high school teammates of Daryl Spencer and Hurlie Brown, who ended up going to UM
 
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Development is a prerequisite to the effective utilization of your talent, but in order to have a national championship team it is necessary to have some 5 stars.
 
PensacolaCane said:
jruiz said:
People act like you can't have both look at Bama, they get 5 star talent and they develop (or as many suspect, juice) them
Same thing with LSU
4-5 star talent is great, but if they end up like USC or FSU in recent years or even our class of 2008, I rather have2-3 star guys who I know the coaches can develop
Click to expand...
More than anything, Bama does their homework better than anyone else when it comes to fully evaluating the 4* and 5* talent they sign. Because of this and not just better player "development", they have fewer busts than just about anyone else.
Click to expand...

Evaluation of the star whores on this site, "if hes a 5 star, then recruit him".
 
in the 80s...OK and Neb even ND was still getting the pick of the litter from around the country...while Miami and FSU were building speed over size and stats from HS....

Miami changed the game...NEB and OK would still be in the wishbone if not for Miami. Texas still gets tons of 5 star studs what one ship in 40 years??

Luke K from BC 3 star kid..as a rookie led the NFL in tackles..was not heavily recruited and the fins should have taken him...

its development its playing as one as a team etc..aka Boise/UTAH or even temple under Golden...what is scary guys like Urban that can win with 2 & 3 stars then you give them a Thoroughbred like FL or OSU and ships will happen....

I want 3 years of Golden without his hands tied, clean recruiting and he will have us rolling like 2001 again....bank it
 
Gamineal said:
in the 80s...OK and Neb even ND was still getting the pick of the litter from around the country...while Miami and FSU were building speed over size and stats from HS....

Miami changed the game...NEB and OK would still be in the wishbone if not for Miami. Texas still gets tons of 5 star studs what one ship in 40 years??

Luke K from BC 3 star kid..as a rookie led the NFL in tackles..was not heavily recruited and the fins should have taken him...

its development its playing as one as a team etc..aka Boise/UTAH or even temple under Golden...what is scary guys like Urban that can win with 2 & 3 stars then you give them a Thoroughbred like FL or OSU and ships will happen....

I want 3 years of Golden without his hands tied, clean recruiting and he will have us rolling like 2001 again....bank it
Click to expand...

So Golden gets six years before you actually start questioning this team and the misses in recruiting? I guess there will always be excuse makers amongst our fans.
 
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The answer is talent. It's always talent. Look back at our recruiting classes for the past 10 years. The best player in the class has never been a 3 star, it's always been a 4 or 5 star.

Believe me - I'm sure Al Golden is more excited about a Stacy Coley who has a rep for being a little lazy, the Herb Waters who has a rep for being a hard worker.

That's not a knock on either - just a fact that coaches want talented players with higher ceilings. you want a 5 star over a 3 star almost every time. You want a 1st round draft pick over a 3rd round draft pick almost every time.
 
Hmmm, for all this talk about Bama and player development you'd think they would translate to the NFL better.
 
AboutTheU05 said:
Hmmm, for all this talk about Bama and player development you'd think they would translate to the NFL better.
Click to expand...

i think they develop players well for their system.. not necessarily to be ballers in the league. And really, that's all that should matter to Saban.. what does he care if they have long illustrious NFL careers.
 
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bshaw28 said:
The answer is talent. It's always talent. Look back at our recruiting classes for the past 10 years. The best player in the class has never been a 3 star, it's always been a 4 or 5 star.

Believe me - I'm sure Al Golden is more excited about a Stacy Coley who has a rep for being a little lazy, the Herb Waters who has a rep for being a hard worker.

That's not a knock on either - just a fact that coaches want talented players with higher ceilings. you want a 5 star over a 3 star almost every time. You want a 1st round draft pick over a 3rd round draft pick almost every time.
Click to expand...

eddie johnson says hello...Stephen Morris says hello,...two huge 3 star guys that lead our team last year...over 4 star guys, do you want jacory or Stephen,,,

Henderson is a 5 star?? Porter a 4 star, Forston was a 5 star? Colin McCarthy was a 3 star..playing very well in the NFL,,,Brandin Harris 5 star...cant find the field..

I do agree you need studs, but football players are just that football players...
 
Miami82 said:
Gamineal said:
in the 80s...OK and Neb even ND was still getting the pick of the litter from around the country...while Miami and FSU were building speed over size and stats from HS....

Miami changed the game...NEB and OK would still be in the wishbone if not for Miami. Texas still gets tons of 5 star studs what one ship in 40 years??

Luke K from BC 3 star kid..as a rookie led the NFL in tackles..was not heavily recruited and the fins should have taken him...

its development its playing as one as a team etc..aka Boise/UTAH or even temple under Golden...what is scary guys like Urban that can win with 2 & 3 stars then you give them a Thoroughbred like FL or OSU and ships will happen....

I want 3 years of Golden without his hands tied, clean recruiting and he will have us rolling like 2001 again....bank it
Click to expand...

So Golden gets six years before you actually start questioning this team and the misses in recruiting? I guess there will always be excuse makers amongst our fans.
Click to expand...


Sure he needs 6 years...I did not say he would not win in 2013 or even compete, I said give him 3 clean years after this mess and we can be like the 2001 guys with dominating games and great recruiting classes Not sure how old you are...we were pretty good in 2001 without Luther and Tim running their mouths and yes we were bashed for okay classes back then we never cracked the top 10 from 97 -2001..yet FSU and FL did, ...

I know some of you watch a game and when we are getting beat by 21 aka BC game post the hate at Golden and staff...then when the game was over ride the bandwagon...those are scum fans in my opinion..and some guys just want al to fail for obvious reasons stated by the hack racist Luther...
 
Gamineal said:
bshaw28 said:
The answer is talent. It's always talent. Look back at our recruiting classes for the past 10 years. The best player in the class has never been a 3 star, it's always been a 4 or 5 star.

Believe me - I'm sure Al Golden is more excited about a Stacy Coley who has a rep for being a little lazy, the Herb Waters who has a rep for being a hard worker.

That's not a knock on either - just a fact that coaches want talented players with higher ceilings. you want a 5 star over a 3 star almost every time. You want a 1st round draft pick over a 3rd round draft pick almost every time.
Click to expand...

eddie johnson says hello...Stephen Morris says hello,...two huge 3 star guys that lead our team last year...over 4 star guys, do you want jacory or Stephen,,,

Henderson is a 5 star?? Porter a 4 star, Forston was a 5 star? Colin McCarthy was a 3 star..playing very well in the NFL,,,Brandin Harris 5 star...cant find the field..

I do agree you need studs, but football players are just that football players...
Click to expand...

There's tons of 3 stars that have worked out great, and tons of 4 & 5 stars that have been busts. We could each pick out individual players to prove that point. But the greater % of the time, it's the 4 and 5 stars that make you an elite team, while a greater % of the time 3 stars become role players rather than elite players.

Look at our roster right now. Going into this season, would you rather have our best 4/5 star player or our best 2/3 star player at each position?

QB: Stephen Morris or Kevin Olsen?
RB: Duke Johnson or Dallas Crawford?
TE: Beau Sandland or Clive Walford?
WR: Stacy Coley or Phillip Dorsett?
OL: Seantrel Henderson or Malcolm Bunche?
DE: Anthony Chickilo or Shayon Green?
DT: Curtis Porter or Olsen Pierre?
LB: Denzel Perryman or Eddie Johnson?
CB: Tracy Howard or Ladarius Gunter?
S: Deon Bush or Rayshawn Jenkins?


Morris obviously, but then maybe Dorsett? Player Developement is huge, but having talented players will always be more important.
 
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