3-4 Defensive Depth

[Coach Macho]

Why would D'nofrio wait till year 3 to implement an entirely "new" defensive scheme when he has been the DC the entire time???..... what coach does that??

Coach D hasn't waited until year #3 to implement a new scheme. Miami was a 4-3 defense and he's ran a 4-3 defense and added 3-4 to it as the right personnel has arrived and developed for it. When all is said and done Miami will run a multiple look 3-4 Hybrid defense. Yes, South FL kids who are supposed to be the most talented kids in the country are being asked to learn big boy defenses. This horse**** that South FL doesn't produce the right kind of talent to run a 3-4 is just that, horse****.

How the fvck would you know that it's horse****? You don't coach down here. You don't know what kind of athletes populate this region.

Big boy defense? So LSU doesn't run a big boy defense? We didn't run big boy defense at Miami for the last 30 years?

Fvck outta here with that dumb ****.

Some of the South FL coaches are the biggest ******* idiots going. Keep thinking South Fl can't produce talent to run 3-4. Vince Wilfork played at Miami and he may be the best Nose to ever play in a 3-4 at the NFL level. I could go on and on but you won't get it. Your theory is a weakness. Thank god Miami has real coaches to coach this South FL talent up and get the most out of them.

See, this is why you're a *****. Instead of making points for your argument you just say dumb **** like "you're an idiot blah blah blah".

If my theory is a weakness, explain how, don't just start spewing off insults like a little hoe. If you can go "on and on" then by all means...

LOL @ this dude mentioning Wilfork like those guys grown on trees down here. And I'm the idiot?

 

[Picksix]

Why would D'nofrio wait till year 3 to implement an entirely "new" defensive scheme when he has been the DC the entire time???..... what coach does that??

Coach D hasn't waited until year #3 to implement a new scheme. Miami was a 4-3 defense and he's ran a 4-3 defense and added 3-4 to it as the right personnel has arrived and developed for it. When all is said and done Miami will run a multiple look 3-4 Hybrid defense. Yes, South FL kids who are supposed to be the most talented kids in the country are being asked to learn big boy defenses. This horse**** that South FL doesn't produce the right kind of talent to run a 3-4 is just that, horse****.

How the fvck would you know that it's horse****? You don't coach down here. You don't know what kind of athletes populate this region.

Big boy defense? So LSU doesn't run a big boy defense? We didn't run big boy defense at Miami for the last 30 years?

Fvck outta here with that dumb ****.

Some of the South FL coaches are the biggest ****ing idiots going. Keep thinking South Fl can't produce talent to run 3-4. Vince Wilfork played at Miami and he may be the best Nose to ever play in a 3-4 at the NFL level. I could go on and on but you won't get it. Your theory is a weakness. Thank god Miami has real coaches to coach this South FL talent up and get the most out of them.

See, this is why you're a ****. Instead of making points for your argument you just say dumb **** like "you're an idiot blah blah blah".

If my theory is a weakness, explain how, don't just start spewing off insults like a little hoe. If you can go "on and on" then by all means...

LOL @ this dude mentioning Wilfork like those guys grown on trees down here. And I'm the idiot?

No no you're right! 3-4 defense can't be run with South FL talent. Now sit back and watch Golden and Coach D run a 3-4 hybrid defense at Miami with South FL talent. Moron...

There's plenty of South FL talent playing in 3-4 defenses. Just because some of these idiot South FL HS coaches have this BS theory doesn't make it true. That's what they're comfortable running because that's what they're used to running so that's how the fable will be told.

Just because you're a football coach in South FL doesn't make your fairy tale true.

By the way Vince Wilfork didn't just grow on any tree he grew on the South FL tree. The state of Miami has the most pro's in the NFL by a large margin. Your BS theory holds zero water. Like I said, it takes coaching.

 

[courcy75]

Coach D hasn't waited until year #3 to implement a new scheme. Miami was a 4-3 defense and he's ran a 4-3 defense and added 3-4 to it as the right personnel has arrived and developed for it. When all is said and done Miami will run a multiple look 3-4 Hybrid defense. Yes, South FL kids who are supposed to be the most talented kids in the country are being asked to learn big boy defenses. This horse**** that South FL doesn't produce the right kind of talent to run a 3-4 is just that, horse****.

How the fvck would you know that it's horse****? You don't coach down here. You don't know what kind of athletes populate this region.

Big boy defense? So LSU doesn't run a big boy defense? We didn't run big boy defense at Miami for the last 30 years?

Fvck outta here with that dumb ****.

Some of the South FL coaches are the biggest ****ing idiots going. Keep thinking South Fl can't produce talent to run 3-4. Vince Wilfork played at Miami and he may be the best Nose to ever play in a 3-4 at the NFL level. I could go on and on but you won't get it. Your theory is a weakness. Thank god Miami has real coaches to coach this South FL talent up and get the most out of them.

See, this is why you're a ****. Instead of making points for your argument you just say dumb **** like "you're an idiot blah blah blah".

If my theory is a weakness, explain how, don't just start spewing off insults like a little hoe. If you can go "on and on" then by all means...

LOL @ this dude mentioning Wilfork like those guys grown on trees down here. And I'm the idiot?

No no you're right! 3-4 defense can't be run with South FL talent. Now sit back and watch Golden and Coach D run a 3-4 hybrid defense at Miami with South FL talent. Moron...

There's plenty of South FL talent playing in 3-4 defenses. Just because some of these idiot South FL HS coaches have this BS theory doesn't make it true. That's what they're comfortable running because that's what they're used to running so that's how the fable will be told.

Just because you're a football coach in South FL doesn't make your fairy tale true.

But none of our starting defensive linemen are actually from south florida....

 

[Coach Macho]

Coach D hasn't waited until year #3 to implement a new scheme. Miami was a 4-3 defense and he's ran a 4-3 defense and added 3-4 to it as the right personnel has arrived and developed for it. When all is said and done Miami will run a multiple look 3-4 Hybrid defense. Yes, South FL kids who are supposed to be the most talented kids in the country are being asked to learn big boy defenses. This horse**** that South FL doesn't produce the right kind of talent to run a 3-4 is just that, horse****.

How the fvck would you know that it's horse****? You don't coach down here. You don't know what kind of athletes populate this region.

Big boy defense? So LSU doesn't run a big boy defense? We didn't run big boy defense at Miami for the last 30 years?

Fvck outta here with that dumb ****.

Some of the South FL coaches are the biggest ****ing idiots going. Keep thinking South Fl can't produce talent to run 3-4. Vince Wilfork played at Miami and he may be the best Nose to ever play in a 3-4 at the NFL level. I could go on and on but you won't get it. Your theory is a weakness. Thank god Miami has real coaches to coach this South FL talent up and get the most out of them.

See, this is why you're a ****. Instead of making points for your argument you just say dumb **** like "you're an idiot blah blah blah".

If my theory is a weakness, explain how, don't just start spewing off insults like a little hoe. If you can go "on and on" then by all means...

LOL @ this dude mentioning Wilfork like those guys grown on trees down here. And I'm the idiot?

No no you're right! 3-4 defense can't be run with South FL talent. Now sit back and watch Golden and Coach D run a 3-4 hybrid defense at Miami with South FL talent. Moron...

There's plenty of South FL talent playing in 3-4 defenses. Just because some of these idiot South FL HS coaches have this BS theory doesn't make it true. That's what they're comfortable running because that's what they're used to running so that's how the fable will be told.

Just because you're a football coach in South FL doesn't make your fairy tale true.

The fact that I'm a coach in South FLA, and have run a successful 3-4, and I know my ****...means everything I'm saying in here is true. See, I have credentials and an opinion, you just have an opinion.

Did I say Miami can't run a 3-4? (no)

I simply shot holes in some of the theories in this thread, that's all.

 

[zone3cane]

I definitely agree with Wildcat's post. The biggest issue I have with the 3-4 at Miami is our recruiting base's skill sets don't cater to that type of defense. I'm not from South Florida, but it seems that the defenses are super simple. One-gap, see-ball-get-ball in the front seven. This read and react **** seems to go against the nature of SoFla players.

Most high school defenses are simple, you cant have a simple defense in college now a days b/c coaches are going to eat that **** up regardless....

its a learning curb with learning this type of defense but if the coaches at the high school level started teaching players this types of system it will get easier to coach overtime.... Just like how Saban seems to have all of Alabama's high schools catering to his defensive philosophy at Bama.

Before Saban the state of Bama wasnt a hotbed for elite recruits now they spit out 5 star 3-4 OLBs every year.

And that's why Bama and Miami are different, and the 3-4 works for Bama. South Florida coaches ain't never gonna switch to the 3-4 (in bulk) so you can forget about it.

This "engage, read and react" stuff that we're doing on the D-line at Miami is foreign language to these kids down here.

OK but i think thats why Miami's defense is a hybrid front w/ the base being the 4-3. Its not a complete big slow man 3-4 like Bama or UGA. Which allows the SFL athletes like the Chad Thomas's and Trent Harris's to still be able to use their athleticism while on the field.

I dont think the 3-4 "switch" is the learning curb that just takes practice for a GOOD player to get comfortable. I think the learning curb is the "read and react" that you are referring too.... but Mark Stoops had the same philosophy when he was at FSU, its a talent and depth issue imo.

FSU got DTs that would start at Miami but are 2nd and 3rd string at FSU, while they are waiting for their turn to be the main guy, they are learning how to play "engage, read and react" while the other "more veteran DTs" in front of them are able to do it effectively. Miami just hasnt had the talent or the depth to do it effectively until now.

The reason why coaches are teaching this system is b/c d-lineman have to learn how to maintain gap control and be a "playmaker" at the same time. If you dont focus on gap control then a team is going to wash your entire defense out of the play every time. I dont think the talent in SFL cant learn how to do it they just have to be taught how to do it.

Every team not just Miami, when they land a SFL recruit, has to teach them technique and the importance of technique b/c most BCS teams are going to have nothing but the "best athlete" at their high school on the team. High school coaches in SFL are so spoiled w/ talent that they just let the best athlete "out athlete" everybody, which is understandable.... it makes their job easier in high school but makes CFB coaches job difficult at the next level b/c nobody plays football like that in CFB or the NFL.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

We'v run base 4-3. We've run 4-3 over (primarily). We've run 3-4 with Shayon as an OLB and normal personnel. We've run 3 down lineman rush stuff with Chick at nose. So my caps will stay until post like yours stop happening and the fan base is more educated about what their team is actually doing.

I must of missed when this happen (Chick at Nose??) What game?

 

[SebastianTheIbis]

We'v run base 4-3. We've run 4-3 over (primarily). We've run 3-4 with Shayon as an OLB and normal personnel. We've run 3 down lineman rush stuff with Chick at nose. So my caps will stay until post like yours stop happening and the fan base is more educated about what their team is actually doing.

I must of missed when this happen (Chick at Nose??) What game?

We had Chick at nose a few times (don't remember the specific games) during obvious passing downs (3rd and long), along with rush guys on the outside. He stands out so it was pretty noticeable.

I share dg's frustration with people not realizing we ran the 3-4 a lot last year. Either you aren't watching the game or aren't watching closely enough. If I had video of last year's games I'd screencap it.

 

[SebastianTheIbis]

Oh look! The 3-4! NO WAY!

/borrowed from ridler's thread

 

[CaneAlmighty]

We'v run base 4-3. We've run 4-3 over (primarily). We've run 3-4 with Shayon as an OLB and normal personnel. We've run 3 down lineman rush stuff with Chick at nose. So my caps will stay until post like yours stop happening and the fan base is more educated about what their team is actually doing.

I must of missed when this happen (Chick at Nose??) What game?

We had Chick at nose a few times (don't remember the specific games) during obvious passing downs (3rd and long), along with rush guys on the outside. He stands out so it was pretty noticeable.

I share dg's frustration with people not realizing we ran the 3-4 a lot last year. Either you aren't watching the game or aren't watching closely enough. If I had video of last year's games I'd screencap it.

So you watch the games really really close but can't remember the game(s) Chick played @ Nose?

 

[CanesAreAble]

3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE are very similar positions in build and athleticism. Not sure why anybody would possibly think we have the athletes for one position and not the other. If anything, 3-4 OLB is more demanding. You have to play the run the same way a 4-3 DE does, you have to set the edge, you have to play coverage, and you have to do it all standing up.

Everybody just wants to talk about height and weight when referring to positions but nobody has taken SKILL-SET into account. Just cause a guy is a 330lbs doesn't mean he can play NT. Just cause a guy is 6'4" 290 doesn't mean he can play DE. Just cause a guy is 6'3" 245 doesn't mean he can play OLB. The athletes who are bred in South FLorida are more suited for the 4-3 when it comes to size AND skill-set.

3-4 isn't even a speed-based scheme. I don't know why anybody thinks we'll have more speed on the field. In the the standard Miami style 4-3 you only have two "slow" guys on the field, the Defensive Tackles. You have five "quick twitch" or "speed" guys, the DE's and LB's. Once you switch to the 3-4 you incorporate THREE "slower" players at the NT and DE positions. You then take your 4-3 Defensive Ends and move them to OLB. Now you've essentially got five Defensive Linemen on the field. (three DT's and two DE's)

You don't NEED to be 270 pounds to play DE in the 4-3 one-gap defense. You can make an impact at around 250 pounds, especially in college football. Chad Thomas and AQM are prototypical Miami 4-3 DE's and when they get here we're gonna ask them to do all kinds of other **** that's outside of their strongest skill-sets.

The 3-4 is also a more complex scheme and will take longer for our South Florida kids to adjust to. Nobody runs that scheme down here.

We're asking more of the front 7, but I don't think the scheme is unfeasible. It's going to take some time to get it fully implemented, but once things are rolling, we should be fine.

 

[eleganttomcat]

I would like Gaines and Kirby manning the two inside spots. I really think Kirby is an absolute stud. Keep Perryman on the outside in coverage and wrecking opponents there. Tyriq on the other outside spot and I'm loving that ****. Maybe this is kinda questionable to some peeps that wanna put Perryman on the inside in a 3-4 but I really believe that:

OLBerryman
ML: Kirby
ML: Gaines
OLB: McCord/Figs

would be really special. Depth at the Middle is obviously highly questionable as well. Maybe shuffle Figs in there too? Not sure. Idk.Either way we should have our 4 best LB's on the field.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I definitely agree with Wildcat's post. The biggest issue I have with the 3-4 at Miami is our recruiting base's skill sets don't cater to that type of defense. I'm not from South Florida, but it seems that the defenses are super simple. One-gap, see-ball-get-ball in the front seven. This read and react **** seems to go against the nature of SoFla players.

Most high school defenses are simple, you cant have a simple defense in college now a days b/c coaches are going to eat that **** up regardless....

its a learning curb with learning this type of defense but if the coaches at the high school level started teaching players this types of system it will get easier to coach overtime.... Just like how Saban seems to have all of Alabama's high schools catering to his defensive philosophy at Bama.

Before Saban the state of Bama wasnt a hotbed for elite recruits now they spit out 5 star 3-4 OLBs every year.

And that's why Bama and Miami are different, and the 3-4 works for Bama. South Florida coaches ain't never gonna switch to the 3-4 (in bulk) so you can forget about it.

This "engage, read and react" stuff that we're doing on the D-line at Miami is foreign language to these kids down here.

But historically we've recruited nationally at Dline. Our current starting DTs are out of state recruits.
We'll be aight...

 

[zone3cane]

Oh look! The 3-4! NO WAY!

/borrowed from ridler's thread

Its a lot of ppl on this board that was sleep when Miami was running this **** all year...smh

Its really the 4-3 under look but the line is shifted and the DE is now in the 3-4 OLB position.

D'onofrio has this version of the 4-3 under 3-4 hybrid as another base (run or pass) and they also have the 3-4 hybrid package w/ the 9-tech edge rushers like McCord when its just time to get to the QB.

 

[IndayArtHauz]

Oh look! The 3-4! NO WAY!

/borrowed from ridler's thread

They've said and run multiple fronts from their first, Vernon-absent press huddles before fall practices in 2011. This argument's nadir has similarly always boiled down to "will they ever run a 3-4 BASE?" and the answer will forever be "NO."

Why? Because they've said so. But why? Because it suits them to run it this way, because that's what they've chosen to do. Consequently, the only "valuable" debate would be "Is this effective (enough)" and iterations thereof. Not "See! Here! 3-4! I figured them out!"

You might (MIGHT) go so far as to ask the philosophical question of "Does 'base' have any real meaning anymore?", but I don't know enough to answer that. Or care, because I'm satisfied with the words out of ther mouths and the play on the field matching.

This conversation was had as soon as Golden was hired, and D'O was believed to be turning down the Temple HC offer, if it even came. It was the premier question of his hiring. And why the answers they gave then still aren't good enough blows my little, frustrated and under-luminous mind. You should always see 3-4 under these guys. It is a situational scheme they use for myriad reasons. That's it. That's all there is. There's no deeper conspiracy.

Unless they change. Then whatever.

 

[zone3cane]

Oh look! The 3-4! NO WAY!

/borrowed from ridler's thread

Its a lot of ppl on this board that was sleep when Miami was running this **** all year...smh

Its really the 4-3 under look but the line is shifted and the DE is now in the 3-4 OLB position.

D'onofrio has this version of the 4-3 under 3-4 hybrid as another base (run or pass) and they also have the 3-4 hybrid package w/ the 9-tech edge rushers like McCord when its just time to get to the QB.

This defense is so multiple they can put 2 LBs on the edge to make it more athletic, or they can put 2 DEs on the edge to make it more stout, or they can put a guy like McCord on the edge w/ Gilbert on the other edge to create a scary pass rush... its just a lot of interchangeable parts in this system.

You can go w/ nothing but big guys as your 3 down lineman or you can have a pure pass rush defense w/ 3 down d-lineman like AQM, Chick, Pierre, w/ Edge rushers (9-tech guys) just to mix it up.

 

[User-4525]

Our whole defensive roster isn't made up of south Florida kids....Lol

Who on our front 7 is from south Florida and will get quality pt this year?

Jelani Hamilton
Denzel Perryman
Thurston Armbrister

 

[CanesAreAble]

Interesting article about Saban's Bama defense:

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/01/nick_saban_says_hes_still_comm.html

 

[Coach Macho]

I would like Gaines and Kirby manning the two inside spots. I really think Kirby is an absolute stud. Keep Perryman on the outside in coverage and wrecking opponents there. Tyriq on the other outside spot and I'm loving that ****. Maybe this is kinda questionable to some peeps that wanna put Perryman on the inside in a 3-4 but I really believe that:

OLBerryman
ML: Kirby
ML: Gaines
OLB: McCord/Figs

would be really special. Depth at the Middle is obviously highly questionable as well. Maybe shuffle Figs in there too? Not sure. Idk.Either way we should have our 4 best LB's on the field.

No. Perryman's short *** has no business on the outside, setting the edge against Offensive Tackles and Tight-Ends.

Not only that, but he's your best "seek and destroy" player on the entire defense. That guy belongs in the middle.

 

[RiDLer80]

Interesting article about Saban's Bama defense:

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/01/nick_saban_says_hes_still_comm.html

“I'm very committed to it, if anybody would play regular people against us,” he said.

What the **** is real people? Saban be acting like real ***** regarding spread offenses and hurry-up offenses.

MF that is normal now.

The difference is Saban seems to not be so stubborn that he'll actually leave his base defense against 3 and 4 wide. Dorito will leave our base defense in against the same personnel no matter what and let our OLBs get exposed in the passing game.

 

[SebastianTheIbis]

We'v run base 4-3. We've run 4-3 over (primarily). We've run 3-4 with Shayon as an OLB and normal personnel. We've run 3 down lineman rush stuff with Chick at nose. So my caps will stay until post like yours stop happening and the fan base is more educated about what their team is actually doing.

I must of missed when this happen (Chick at Nose??) What game?

We had Chick at nose a few times (don't remember the specific games) during obvious passing downs (3rd and long), along with rush guys on the outside. He stands out so it was pretty noticeable.

I share dg's frustration with people not realizing we ran the 3-4 a lot last year. Either you aren't watching the game or aren't watching closely enough. If I had video of last year's games I'd screencap it.

So you watch the games really really close but can't remember the game(s) Chick played @ Nose?

I don't watch the games really really close, but we ran the 3-4 in just about every game last year so it's hard not to notice it (which was my point). Chick at nose only happened a few times so it's a lot harder to remember when it was in a 12 game season a year ago.