WR recruiting and Dugans Evaluations

[IcemanArcade]

Recent lackluster performance of our upperclassmen WR core heading into the midpoint of their senior/junior season has me thinking and looking back at previous evaluations for WR recruiting. And boy did we strike out... A lot... Remember when we held Dugans and Hartley as our best recruiters on this staff a few years ago?... looking back at Dugans evaluations in which he was listed as either the P (primary) S (secondary) recruiter from 2016-2018. With the exception of Ahmon Richards and Jeff Thomas the first 3 weeks of the 2018 season (after the LSU loss) None have lived up to expectations or have played a significant snap/down for Miami. This group is what they are at this point. 2017-2018 core has had 3 different WR coaches and though Stubberfck was awful, we simply chalk it up to missed evaluations. (Pope/Hartley over Elijah Moore) We simply cannot expect to compete at a high level in P5 football with such a high bust rate at the WR position.

Looking back at hindsight those guys were Huge pickups after a 10-4 season. But in comparison Alabama picked up J.Juedy, D. Smith, H.Ruggs 3 first rounders in one class.... Cristobal and Burton are insane for that and we know they’re Bama but even then that’s impressive asf. The only other positional group even more lackluster is CB, and the only other with just has high of a bust rate is O-line. This simply cannot continue, Manny has the staff for it, so we’ll see but overall this isn’t a post to bash our current WRs. Few wanted Harley, Pope and Wiggins to succeed under Enos more than me. I say this as a reflection post because unfortunately Dugans and CMR set WR recruitment back a few years, hopefully Manny and Likens can bring us back to being competitive at that position with the 2020-2022 class. Need these freshmens to get some burn next few games tho.

 

[CDWright40]

I don't have the time or energy to do so, but I would be very interested to see a breakdown of the 3star 4 star and 5 star WRs out of the "state of Miami" over the last 3-5 years and see who we opted not to recruit. Guys like Elijah Moore, Tutu Atwell, Steve Ishmael (may be older but you get the point).

Someone brought the idea to our WR issues discussion that UM places too much emphasis on 7v7 performance and not enough real football evaluations. I think there may be a lot to this discussion. I remember during his recruitment Harley was described as a guy who could not be covered on the camp circuit. But now we see that with pads and physicality mike is barely a 3rd or 4th WR on a power five squad (if that).

 

[DMoney]

Dugans was a disaster. Completely botched South Florida WR recruiting and did bad out of state (see Ezzard, Njoku and Hightower).

 

[Astcloud11]

I don't have the time or energy to do so, but I would be very interested to see a breakdown of the 3star 4 star and 5 star WRs out of the "state of Miami" over the last 3-5 years and see who we opted not to recruit. Guys like Elijah Moore, Tutu Atwell, Steve Ishmael (may be older but you get the point).

Someone brought the idea to our WR issues discussion that UM places too much emphasis on 7v7 performance and not enough real football evaluations. I think there may be a lot to this discussion. I remember during his recruitment Harley was described as a guy who could not be covered on the camp circuit. But now we see that with pads and physicality mike is barely a 3rd or 4th WR on a power five squad (if that).

We botched his recruitment, not because we didn't want him, but I think the staff at the time treated him as a QB only prospect...which meant his spot got taken technically when we elected to recruit Jarren Williams after Sitkowski's decommitment...which would've made him a Plan C QB behind probably another guy considering he's 5'8.

People like to pound the missed evaluation rock on Tutu (including me). But we were recruiting so many receivers that year that we simply couldn't get to commit. Just a reminder that there were some solid receviers that were pretty close to committing in Kevin Austin and Xavier Williams. I want to say we also chased Anthony Schwartz for a bit.

 

[Canesq]

I don't have the time or energy to do so, but I would be very interested to see a breakdown of the 3star 4 star and 5 star WRs out of the "state of Miami" over the last 3-5 years and see who we opted not to recruit. Guys like Elijah Moore, Tutu Atwell, Steve Ishmael (may be older but you get the point).

Someone brought the idea to our WR issues discussion that UM places too much emphasis on 7v7 performance and not enough real football evaluations. I think there may be a lot to this discussion. I remember during his recruitment Harley was described as a guy who could not be covered on the camp circuit. But now we see that with pads and physicality mike is barely a 3rd or 4th WR on a power five squad (if that).

Yep Pope was a 7v7 hall of famer.

 

[Astcloud11]

We botched his recruitment, not because we didn't want him, but I think the staff at the time treated him as a QB only prospect...which meant his spot got taken technically when we elected to recruit Jarren Williams after Sitkowski's decommitment...which would've made him a Plan C QB behind probably another guy considering he's 5'8.

People like to pound the missed evaluation rock on Tutu (including me). But we were recruiting so many receivers that year that we simply couldn't get to commit. Just a reminder that there were some solid receviers that were pretty close to committing in Kevin Austin and Xavier Williams. I want to say we also chased Anthony Schwartz for a bit.

Piggy backing off this because I had to check...Kevin Austin and Xavier were both heavily pursued by Dugans... Checking for stats and unless there are some websites that aren't updated. Williams has 0 catches while Austin has 5 (all in his freshman year).

 

[CDWright40]

Piggy backing off this because I had to check...Kevin Austin and Xavier were both heavily pursued by Dugans... Checking for stats and unless there are some websites that aren't updated. Williams has 0 catches while Austin has 5 (all in his freshman year).

I think williams ended up at DB? I know a lot of teams projected him there.

 

[Astcloud11]

I think williams ended up at DB? I know a lot of teams projected him there.

Yeah, he was recruited for either/or position by a lot of schools. He's been a WR at Bama though. RS his first year after taking some snaps against Louisville. Played in 4 games last year, and is listed as getting in the game against TAMU this year. All snaps at WR and never recorded a catch. I guess my main point was even the ones we almost had are JAGS up to this point as well. Outside of Schwartz.

 

[rustywalkedaway]

I think this is some revisionist history.

1. We recruited studs at WR.
2. We lost out on the highest profile guys, most regularly to Alabama. There will also ALWAYS be a South Florida guy like Atwell that we missed, for whatever reason, but who balls out elsewhere. Let's not get outlier obsessed.
3. We also signed some studs. Pope was a big get. Who didn't think Wiggins could play? The problem is they didn't become anything special and it hurts bad now.

IMO this really exposes two issues. First, we have had a **** of a time keeping the real tri-county studs home. Hopefully this class changes that trend. Second, our receivers just have not gotten much better during their time here. I don't see any change in that regard yet.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Dugans was a disaster. Completely botched South Florida WR recruiting and did bad out of state (see Ezzard, Njoku and Hightower).

With all due respect, we could use those big bodies right now, especially Hightower.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

I think this is some revisionist history.

1. We recruited studs at WR.
2. We lost out on the highest profile guys, most regularly to Alabama. There will also ALWAYS be a South Florida guy like Atwell that we missed, for whatever reason, but who balls out elsewhere. Let's not get outlier obsessed.
3. We also signed some studs. Pope was a big get. Who didn't think Wiggins could play? The problem is they didn't become anything special and it hurts bad now.

IMO this really exposes two issues. First, we have had a **** of a time keeping the real tri-county studs home. Hopefully this class changes that trend. Second, our receivers just have not gotten much better during their time here. I don't see any change in that regard yet.

Hopefully Likens changes that. He did have 2 first round WRs, so he has some cred for recruiting and development.

 

[305407cane]

Jacolby george ain’t no workout 7v7 warrior. That guy is productive as ****. And brashard smith has a ridiculous touchdown to catch ratio. And brinson is a dog at a local feeder school/power. He’s good. Brinson and George need weight but smith steps in day one of you ask me. Guy is like Amari Rogers in physical makeup sort of maybe taller. But he shifty and makes plays

 

[CDWright40]

So for ***** and giggles I looked at the rivals database (because it was easiest to navigate) and looked at all WRs in the 17 and 18 classes that were from Florida and rated 3 stars or better. It is amazing how many of the total WRs in this category are from the state of Florida. It is also amazing how few of them have found success up to this point in college football. I'm starting to wonder if Florida boys are not cut out to be big time wide recievers with a few exceptions like Jeudy.

 

[CDWright40]

Jacolby george ain’t no workout 7v7 warrior. That guy is productive as ****. And brashard smith has a ridiculous touchdown to catch ratio. And brinson is a dog at a local feeder school/power. He’s good. Brinson and George need weight but smith steps in day one of you ask me. Guy is like Amari Rogers in physical makeup sort of maybe taller. But he shifty and makes plays

Im a huge advocate for Brashard Smith. I think he is very similar to the Toney dude at UFag right now who like it or not is a baller.

 

[ATXCane86]

Looking at the haul Likens has brought in (and his track record), I’m way more confident in his abilities than Dugans moving forward

 

[IcemanArcade]

I think this is some revisionist history.

1. We recruited studs at WR.
2. We lost out on the highest profile guys, most regularly to Alabama. There will also ALWAYS be a South Florida guy like Atwell that we missed, for whatever reason, but who balls out elsewhere. Let's not get outlier obsessed.
3. We also signed some studs. Pope was a big get. Who didn't think Wiggins could play? The problem is they didn't become anything special and it hurts bad now.

IMO this really exposes two issues. First, we have had a **** of a time keeping the real tri-county studs home. Hopefully this class changes that trend. Second, our receivers just have not gotten much better during their time here. I don't see any change in that regard yet.

Its exactly revisionist history, I stated.
“I say this as a reflection post because unfortunately Dugans and CMR set WR recruitment back a few years”

And I know those guys were “huge” and “studs” when they committed to us but as I’ve stated at this point, **** what they did in HS or the 7v7 camp circuit. We chalk it up as misses . 3 WR coaches between 2016-2020 and none have brought out anything from our guys. The two before Likens weren’t technique wizards either. Dugans set us back big time. Alabama just so happened to get the cream of the crop.

 

[IcemanArcade]

So for ***** and giggles I looked at the rivals database (because it was easiest to navigate) and looked at all WRs in the 17 and 18 classes that were from Florida and rated 3 stars or better. It is amazing how many of the total WRs in this category are from the state of Florida. It is also amazing how few of them have found success up to this point in college football. I'm starting to wonder if Florida boys are not cut out to be big time wide recievers with a few exceptions like Jeudy.

Someone on twitter the other day mentioned that SFL WRs unfortunately still rely on their speed, and that they’re not properly training with weights to become stronger. And so the game of CFB is only getting faster and recruits from other states are adapting. Speed, Technique and Strength.

 

[j06smith]

Some folks act like nobody else was recruiting the receivers we have on our team. The big power 5 teams were recruiting alot of the guys that's currently on our roster. There's just been no development, various offensive coordinators, and systems, oh and lets not forget, world beaters at qb. Everybody has to take the blame on their lack luster performance, not just Dugan.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

Evaluations matter. Development matters more.

If blocking for receivers get them on the field then that’s what they’ll do. Had Dugans, or Stubblefield for that matter, set the bar at winning 50/50’s…they might be better at that. Miami has receivers who don’t WANT the ball and though some want to big up Jordan as a first rounder…his biggest criticism aside from size and blocking is — not winning the contested catches more. And I can say the same about Mallory.

That isn’t genetic. It’s not whether or not they have “that dawg” in them, it’s concepts and coaching to make them understand that is a receiver’s job: catch the ball or stop the other guy from catching it. Some kids intuitively get it, some don’t … and that’s the coaches job, to make them get it.

- Wiggins was a 3-star…some thought at the time that he should’ve been dropped. And there’s a video of him using excellent footwork and a double move to beat Josh Jobe at some camp (I think it was Paradise). His issues aren’t his evaluation, it’s his development. Everything he struggles with could’ve been coached out of him. Why? Because Harley, and Pope do the same ****. Which tells me it’s NOT being coached! And, yes, I include Likens in that, but to a lesser extent because COVID severely limited his time with the receivers.

It’s not just the 3-stars like Atwell and Moore that are missed, it’s the 4-star, and 3-stars who enroll at Miami and need coaching — but don’t get it. This is a coaching issue more than just evaluations.

 

[IcemanArcade]

Dugans was a disaster. Completely botched South Florida WR recruiting and did bad out of state (see Ezzard, Njoku and Hightower).

Thinking if this staff current staff was in place during CMR tenure 2015-2018. Manny could’ve landed one of Juedy, Smith, Atwell (maybe), we’d even have a better chance Targeting OOS guys that we offered (amon ra st brown, Higgins)