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WR Dont'e Thornton (Oregon transfer) is visiting this weekend LOL commits to Vols

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Juancane said:
Understood except i'd argue that the biggest obstacle in our not getting a top WR is the fact that we haven't had a first round WR since Dorsett and he's hardly done a thing in the league. The last great one was probably Andre Johnson, 20 years ago. Gattis has been here 1 year......he's not responsible for the last 15-20 years of not getting top WRs either. So while i don't like him, its not like we fire him tomorrow and Trader, Smith, and everyone else comes running home while music plays in the background. We still have the same history. And everyone here seems to think it gets fixed magically just on one hire. Same with Enis, same with whomever before. We've got a bigger overall problem that takes a bit to fix.
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Strongly disagree. If we hire an OC that has a track record of coaching a dynamic offense and a WR coach that has a track record of developing receivers, the recruiting will improve significantly overnight.
 
dk72 said:
Wow, that video shows how bad it was. Every single receiver was within a 20 yard radius. So defenders could react to and defend multiple receivers at the same time.
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That's fuccin awful. Can't believe were paying $1.8mil for that. It looks as though we may be trying to run a "mesh" type concept... but everything is wrong. No spacing! Holee ****!!!
 
Juancane said:
Understood except i'd argue that the biggest obstacle in our not getting a top WR is the fact that we haven't had a first round WR since Dorsett and he's hardly done a thing in the league. The last great one was probably Andre Johnson, 20 years ago. Gattis has been here 1 year......he's not responsible for the last 15-20 years of not getting top WRs either. So while i don't like him, its not like we fire him tomorrow and Trader, Smith, and everyone else comes running home while music plays in the background. We still have the same history. And everyone here seems to think it gets fixed magically just on one hire. Same with Enis, same with whomever before. We've got a bigger overall problem that takes a bit to fix.
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Bad argument. If you hire a legit OC that can point to his history of creative vertical WR routes and WR successes- then you have immediate credibility and have a chance to land him. That’s why the OC hire is so critical.
 
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crossover22[]_[] said:
I absolutely agree thats what he should do but this IS marios preferred offense. His time at oregon showed this is what he likes.

Like you, i truly hope he brings in a great OC and lets them run what will work.
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Is it?

I understand the perception, and I get why.

But in 2019, Herbert's senior season, they threw the ball 446 times and ran it 510 times.

This past season, Lane Kiffin at Ole Miss ran the ball 614 times and threw it 387 times.

I think sometimes people confuse "conservative" and "effective". When people think of Lane, do they think boring and conservative? I don't think so. But he historially runs the ball much more than he throws it. The reason he's considered a great offensive mind, is his offense works, and it's high-paced, so people think he's some "air raid" type of coach. And this is just 1 example, there are plenty more.

Even Lincoln Riley this year....he had one of the best QBs in the country, and they played a decent bit of close games this year, but still it was only 473 runs to 515 passes.

We don't need Mike Leach type offense here (RIP to the GOAT, by the way). Mario is going to put together a well above-average offensive line who *should* be very good in run blocking and pass pro. The key is hiring someone who can scheme points using a dominant OL, and I promise you offensive recruits will follow. But people have this notion that Mario is only willing to run an offense you'd see at Army or Air Force. It's simply not true. As a matter of fact, Gattis had a very high first-down passing rate this year before Jacurri came into the picture. He just did a poor job of scheming a competent passing game, and it was limited by poor receivers and a subpar OL. Mario is willing to play the type of game that most guys are playing in 2023. No doubt about it. He just wants to do it with an elite OL, because that's what he specializes at. And that's great. But he needs to find a way to hire an innovative coach who can score points, and hand that elite OL over to him and let him cook. This stuff that Mario wants to be some three yards and a cloud of dust coach simply isn't correct.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Is it?

I understand the perception, and I get why.

But in 2019, Herbert's senior season, they threw the ball 446 times and ran it 510 times.

This past season, Lane Kiffin at Ole Miss ran the ball 614 times and threw it 387 times.

I think sometimes people confuse "conservative" and "effective". When people think of Lane, do they think boring and conservative? I don't think so. But he historially runs the ball much more than he throws it. The reason he's considered a great offensive mind, is his offense works, and it's high-paced, so people think he's some "air raid" type of coach. And this is just 1 example, there are plenty more.

Even Lincoln Riley this year....he had one of the best QBs in the country, and they played a decent bit of close games this year, but still it was only 473 runs to 515 passes.

We don't need Mike Leach type offense here (RIP to the GOAT, by the way). Mario is going to put together a well above-average offensive line who *should* be very good in run blocking and pass pro. The key is hiring someone who can scheme points using a dominant OL, and I promise you offensive recruits will follow. But people have this notion that Mario is only willing to run an offense you'd see at Army or Air Force. It's simply not true. As a matter of fact, Gattis had a very high first-down passing rate this year before Jacurri came into the picture. He just did a poor job of scheming a competent passing game, and it was limited by poor receivers and a subpar OL. Mario is willing to play the type of game that most guys are playing in 2023. No doubt about it. He just wants to do it with an elite OL, because that's what he specializes at. And that's great. But he needs to find a way to hire an innovative coach who can score points, and hand that elite OL over to him and let him cook. This stuff that Mario wants to be some three yards and a cloud of dust coach simply isn't correct.
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This is the best summary of the situation, I agree with you 100%.
 
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Rickd said:
Bad argument. If you hire a legit OC that can point to his history of creative vertical WR routes and WR successes- then you have immediate credibility and have a chance to land him. That’s why the OC hire is so critical.
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Yea i've heard this story a few times. Meantime, Georgia's leading WRs are TEs and they seem to get better WRs than we do. Nothing changes till we win games.
 
Alex Del Piero said:
If we fire Gattis tomorrow and hire an OC capable of putting 45/50 burgers on (almost) everybody I like our chances for all the top kids in 2024 and in the portal.

Elite WRs could care less about the numbers of the last 15-20 years and why should they?

LSU pre-Brady fixed the offense in 1 year, the same as Tennessee and USC. It's not rocket science.
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I disagree but thats fine. Hopefully we get a chance to see it happen and you are right and i'm wrong and we get all the WRs. Couldn't be happier to be wrong.
 
Juancane said:
Yea i've heard this story a few times. Meantime, Georgia's leading WRs are TEs and they seem to get better WRs than we do. Nothing changes till we win games.
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Look no further than OSU and Brian Hartline. A legit WR coach who is putting WR's into the NFL. Mario needs to sign a legit OC/ QB coach and a killer WR coach ... then the situation will improve dramatically (winning games and recruiting WR's).
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Is it?

I understand the perception, and I get why.

But in 2019, Herbert's senior season, they threw the ball 446 times and ran it 510 times.

This past season, Lane Kiffin at Ole Miss ran the ball 614 times and threw it 387 times.

I think sometimes people confuse "conservative" and "effective". When people think of Lane, do they think boring and conservative? I don't think so. But he historially runs the ball much more than he throws it. The reason he's considered a great offensive mind, is his offense works, and it's high-paced, so people think he's some "air raid" type of coach. And this is just 1 example, there are plenty more.

Even Lincoln Riley this year....he had one of the best QBs in the country, and they played a decent bit of close games this year, but still it was only 473 runs to 515 passes.

We don't need Mike Leach type offense here (RIP to the GOAT, by the way). Mario is going to put together a well above-average offensive line who *should* be very good in run blocking and pass pro. The key is hiring someone who can scheme points using a dominant OL, and I promise you offensive recruits will follow. But people have this notion that Mario is only willing to run an offense you'd see at Army or Air Force. It's simply not true. As a matter of fact, Gattis had a very high first-down passing rate this year before Jacurri came into the picture. He just did a poor job of scheming a competent passing game, and it was limited by poor receivers and a subpar OL. Mario is willing to play the type of game that most guys are playing in 2023. No doubt about it. He just wants to do it with an elite OL, because that's what he specializes at. And that's great. But he needs to find a way to hire an innovative coach who can score points, and hand that elite OL over to him and let him cook. This stuff that Mario wants to be some three yards and a cloud of dust coach simply isn't correct.
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i know why you brought up lane and other coaches. I didnt bring any other coach up.

I never brought up run vs pass ever. I dont care which we do more if we are successful.

you dont believe this is marios preferred offense? Well list me marios top rated offenses. Where they ranked in points scored and time of possession.


This is absolutely the style offense mario prefers.
 
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Mario Cristobal, who coached Oregon Football for four seasons before departing for Miami, had a different mindset, preferring to play a more smashmouth style that focused on wearing opponents down al la Stanford for the last decade or so.

Though the Ducks had multiple offensive coordinators during his tenure, they never really seemed to generate a lot of excitement on that side of the ball, it simply wasn’t Cristobal’s style. Most of the big plays and excitement came from having Justin Herbert under center, as his brilliance at the position helped make up for what was a somewhat droll offensive scheme.
 
Juancane said:
Yea i've heard this story a few times. Meantime, Georgia's leading WRs are TEs and they seem to get better WRs than we do. Nothing changes till we win games.
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Can you give an example outside of Georgia? Because we aren't anywhere near them talent wise so they can play this style. They are winning championships. Of course WR's are willing to take less targets for a chance to win rings.

The issue I see is that unless you have the talent on the OL (which we hopefully now do) and at TE (unproven) + a defence that can make stops (at this time unlikely) -- you cant get away with a roster that doesn't have outside receivers that can spread the field. You need to be able to put points up to keep up.

Is this strategy working for anyone else?
 
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crossover22[]_[] said:
i know why you brought up lane and other coaches. I didnt bring any other coach up.

I never brought up run vs pass ever. I dont care which we do more if we are successful.

you dont believe this is marios preferred offense? Well list me marios top rated offenses. Where they ranked in points scored and time of possession.


This is absolutely the style offense mario prefers.
Click to expand...

Genuinely didn’t bring up Lane because of the other thread. He’s just a very popular coach with successful offenses, that’s the only reason and was the first coach to pop into my mind that I knew would have a surprising (to some) run/pass ratio.

As far as your other point, I would bet you 98% of college coaches would run the ball every play if they could. But Mario’s preferred offense is one he can score a lot of points with and win games with. He wants to be physical, no doubt about it. He wants to be big and imposing on the lines. But he’s not resigned to only running a pro-style offense in order to do that.
 
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