Williams versus Perry

[gcane44]

He was getting reps with the 2s when Weldon was out. Now that’s Weldon is back, Williams is right back at 4th . The order that they throw warm ups in has been indicative of the same order they have been on the depth chart all spring . Now that it doesn’t fit the narrative all of a sudden it’s not indicative ? Ok

Silly over valuing of the order of warm ups. I maintain that the early practice notes that Stefan posts does more damage than good when it comes to creating quality dialogue regarding the team. People take it as some sort of gospel and project it into the entirety of the goings-on of practice when it's basically seniority.

They have all been getting reps with different units.

Rosier - 1s and 2s
Perry - 1s and 2s
Weldon - 2s and 3s
Williams - 2s and 3s

EDIT: I'd love to see this depth chart you're referencing. I haven't seen one come out since Spring started.

 

[jjacks93]

Silly over valuing of the order of warm ups. I maintain that the early practice notes that Stefan posts does more damage than good when it comes to creating quality dialogue regarding the team. People take it as some sort of gospel and project it into the entirety of the goings-on of practice when it's basically seniority.

They have all been getting reps with different units.

Rosier - 1s and 2s
Perry - 1s and 2s
Weldon - 2s and 3s
Williams - 2s and 3s

EDIT: I'd love to see this depth chart you're referencing. I haven't seen one come out since Spring started.

What was the lineup for both scrimmages ? The line up in warm ups for the scrimmages ? The same line up it’s been for the practice session last the media has been having . You’re suggesting that the line up is switched in the practice sessions we can’t see because it’s fits your narrative . There’s no reason to believe that .

To be clear , I’m in the camp of just waiting to see who the starter is against LSU i don’t put too much stock into what “insiders” and guys who out of nowhere know somebody or have access to practices say. At the end of the day we gon see definitively in a few months

 

[gcane44]

What was the lineup for both scrimmages ? The line up in warm ups for the scrimmages ? The same line up it’s been for the practice session last the media has been having . You’re suggesting that the line up is switched in the practice sessions we can’t see because it’s fits your narrative . There’s no reason to believe that .

To be clear , I’m in the camp of just waiting to see who the starter is against LSU i don’t put too much stock into what “insiders” and guys who out of nowhere know somebody or have access to practices say. At the end of the day we gon see definitively in a few months

I don't have a narrative. What I have is exposure to college football practices and an understanding that the warmups order is not nearly as indicative of anything concrete at this juncture of spring as you make it out to be, especially with regards to something as fluid as a QB competition including 3 guys who have never taken a college snap.

The older player is going to be lined up ahead of the younger one. Richt will call on whoever he **** well pleases to get reps with whichever unit he deems fit. That's how it's happening.

I'm all for letting it play out. So, let's let it play out rather than assume that 15 minutes of stretching and throwing in warmups is indicative of some imaginary depth chart.

 

[Hoyacane1620]

Who said he's running out with the 4th team? You're basing that out of Stefan Adams' observations of the order that the QBs do throwing warmups in. That is not completely reflective of what reps each QB is getting in team sessions.

We've seen it reported here numerous times that Williams has, at the least, worked his way to getting reps with the 2s[/Q team, too.

And the 1st team a few times, I believe, too All qbs have gone against the 1s per some other post Just no live tackling

 

[jjacks93]

I don't have a narrative. What I have is exposure to college football practices and an understanding that the warmups order is not nearly as indicative of anything concrete at this juncture of spring as you make it out to be, especially with regards to something as fluid as a QB competition including 3 guys who have never taken a college snap.

The older player is going to be lined up ahead of the younger one. Richt will call on whoever he **** well pleases to get reps with whichever unit he deems fit. That's how it's happening.

I'm all for letting it play out. So, let's let it play out rather than assume that 15 minutes of stretching and throwing in warmups is indicative of some imaginary depth chart. Thanks

Oh ok now you’re an expert on college practices and how each coach runs them. Gotcha

The reps they got in the scrimmages matches the line up they’ve been in in warm ups. Thats a fact.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

I agree Rosier has his faults and many of you think someone else will start because that someone got better. Why can't Rosier get the benefit that he got better too? I expect a large improvement from Rosier. Enough to hold the others off, who knows.

I think we're all going to get what we want no matter what. Rosier will have to play better and be more accurate or he will lose his job sometime during the season. The competition is going to produce a better more accurate QB no matter who wins the job . That is something we all can look forward to.

 

[Loose Cannon]

So now the transitive property applies to who starts at QB? "Well, last year we were burned with N'Kosi, so we must be getting burned with all this great talk about Jarren Williams, you're not going to fool me!" One has nothing to do with the other. Different styles and, most importantly, one seems to care a lot more about the game. I get it. It's been years and years since we've had a great QB around here. You're skeptical. You think the reports are bogus and we're stuck with Rosier for forever.

I'm not crowning the dude just yet, but I sure as **** like each and every report I'm reading about him.

I don't think anyone is trying to apply the transitive property here. I don't see it as a "You may have fooled me with N'kosi, but you won't fool me with Jarron," type of situation. I think it's kind of ironic that all the people who've been calling me a Perry hater because I dared to suggest that we don't be too quick to anoint the guy based off of his HS highlight reel are the first **** ones ready to write him of as a bust or JAG that may as well transfer if he wants to play. Some people do best when you put a carrot on a stick; when they're the #2 guy and chasing #1. Some guys play their best when you sick the dogs on that *** and make them have to hustle to stay ahead. N'kosi Perry is STILL a freshman. Let's see what kind of competitor he turns out to be when summer turns to fall before we write him off for the new guy.

 

[gcane44]

Oh ok now you’re an expert on college practices and how each coach runs them. Gotcha

The reps they got in the scrimmages matches the line up they’ve been in in warm ups. Thats a fact.

/facepalm

 

[DemCanesByke]

All of the QB analysis has made me get to a point where no matter who it is as long as they can complete a minimum of 60% of their passes and beat LSU, I don't have a preference. That is a game we need to win in primetime and LSU even when not good their defense is usually pretty strong.

 

[Poptimus]

I don't think anyone is trying to apply the transitive property here. I don't see it as a "You may have fooled me with N'kosi, but you won't fool me with Jarron," type of situation. I think it's kind of ironic that all the people who've been calling me a Perry hater because I dared to suggest that we don't be too quick to anoint the guy based off of his HS highlight reel are the first **** ones ready to write him of as a bust or JAG that may as well transfer if he wants to play. Some people do best when you put a carrot on a stick; when they're the #2 guy and chasing #1. Some guys play their best when you sick the dogs on that *** and make them have to hustle to stay ahead. N'kosi Perry is STILL a freshman. Let's see what kind of competitor he turns out to be when summer turns to fall before we write him off for the new guy.

I agree that no one should be writing off any freshman QB at any school, period. And no true Cane fan should have a preference for who starts other than that we start the best QB. We've seen what Rosier can do. My thoughts are the same as the others in this thread that think Richt starts Rosier against LSU, but if we so much as have a few 3-&-outs to start the game, he gets benched by the 2nd quarter.

All that aside, you can't make a judgment about who should start if you don't give starting reps to each guy on the squad. Let's see how Williams does with the 1's. ****, lets see how Weldon does with the 1's. Nobody should be written off until they get a shot. Sometimes running with the 2's and 3's can make a QB look worse than he is if guys aren't running routes like they should or the OLine isn't giving him enough time.

 

[kryptonite]

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question, to which I can only infer your answer to be:

"If Perry isn't doing well in Richt's system, the system is the problem and needs to change."
Is this the gamble you'd prefer over "playing it safe?" You want us to overhaul our entire offensive philosophy to cater to every freshman who struggles to grasp the offense immediately?

I was wrong. This isn't stupid. It's ******* retarded.

People don't want Rosier to start (hard to blame them) so they've decided that if he does it's only because Richt is scared or inflexible or some sht. There's no possible way that he's the best option we have. No possible way that any of the other guys might not be better right now.

Personally, I find it pretty easy to envision a situation where all 3 are equally likely to fck up in a game situation and Right decides Rosier's experience outweighs the potential of the other guys at this point.

As always, we won't know for a few more months so picking a winner right now is just stupid.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

All of the QB analysis has made me get to a point where no matter who it is as long as they can complete a minimum of 60% of their passes and beat LSU, I don't have a preference. That is a game we need to win in primetime and LSU even when not good their defense is usually pretty strong.

FIFY

I really don’t care about passing stats for this opener.

The goal is to beat LSU on the big stage in a marquee opener. Something that will give a huge boost and momentum to the program...another big prime time marquee win.

We won 2 out of 3 of those last year. To start out that way ... you can’t put a price on that.

Fūck the stats.

Just fūcking win and don’t get caught in the weeds about stats. Rick sees the big picture.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I agree that no one should be writing off any freshman QB at any school, period. And no true Cane fan should have a preference for who starts other than that we start the best QB. We've seen what Rosier can do. My thoughts are the same as the others in this thread that think Richt starts Rosier against LSU, but if we so much as have a few 3-&-outs to start the game, he gets benched by the 2nd quarter.

All that aside, you can't make a judgment about who should start if you don't give starting reps to each guy on the squad. Let's see how Williams does with the 1's. ****, lets see how Weldon does with the 1's. Nobody should be written off until they get a shot. Sometimes running with the 2's and 3's can make a QB look worse than he is if guys aren't running routes like they should or the OLine isn't giving him enough time.

This is football. This ain't communism and this ain't a democracy. There is no fairness nor equal sharing of reps. You get what you earn when you earn it. The team practices to get better, There are only so many practices we're allowed to have before we play LSU which means there are only so many reps between now and then. Sorry if it comes off as rash or crude, but at some point you have to draw the line on where who gets reps with the ones and who doesn't. That line is drawn between those that know what to do and those who are still learning. The reason for this is that there are 10 other guys on that 1st team who need practice and are working to master their responsibilities on the offense before facing LSU in Texas. Every rep spent on one guy who doesn't yet know what he's doing is a wasted rep for the other 10. If you're a guard who's just now earned the right to work with the first unit, you can't exactly perfect your responsibilities on an outside zone right with a QB who doesn't know how to run it, and you're gonna be terrible in pass-pro everytime an inexperienced QB fails to slide protection and adjust to a blitz.

Right now Rosier is the only guy who didn't see time against anybody but the ones in the Spring game because he's the only one who knows what he's doing, and until somebody else proves that they have earned 1st team reps it needs to stay that way. A guy getting reps with the 3rd team because he doesn't understand what's going on well enough to run the ones is not going to look better with the ones. He's going to look worse, and he's going to make everyone else worse in the process.

 

[Calinative]

I don't think anyone is trying to apply the transitive property here. I don't see it as a "You may have fooled me with N'kosi, but you won't fool me with Jarron," type of situation. I think it's kind of ironic that all the people who've been calling me a Perry hater because I dared to suggest that we don't be too quick to anoint the guy based off of his HS highlight reel are the first **** ones ready to write him of as a bust or JAG that may as well transfer if he wants to play. Some people do best when you put a carrot on a stick; when they're the #2 guy and chasing #1. Some guys play their best when you sick the dogs on that *** and make them have to hustle to stay ahead. N'kosi Perry is STILL a freshman. Let's see what kind of competitor he turns out to be when summer turns to fall before we write him off for the new guy.

Yup, the only one that should be written off is Rosier.

 

[Bk1]

Williams may be legit for this year.

I don’t know.

Let’s review some facts from last year at this time and from last summer.

We were being told by the same insiders that Rosier was looking really bad in practices, thereby his chances at being the starter were very poor, that the coaches were planning to try to start Perry, or at the very least give him every single possible chance to be the man last year.

Do I need to pull up those posts?

Remember all the “Perry da gawww” porsts?

About 90% of the board was in the throes of the N’Kosi rapture. Until about the 2nd or 3 rd week in August.

That info was real info from the same real insiders. I would never question that. It’s how that information is interpreted and processed that’s not so easy. Things can get lost in translation,

I don’t doubt that Williams has looked good to some in some spots. I just wonder if these observers are getting the whole picture. They sure weren’t last year.

In my opinion, I wouldn’t count Perry out. Just like I thought Malik would get the job last year. Malik has the lead now. I still think Perry could unseat him because I’m not buying any evaluations unless they come from Rick. Or Rosier could still end up ahead.

I’m not even counting out Williams.

But this business about Williams already blowing by Perry?

Nah....not unless we hear it after the scrimmage on Saturday from Rick.

I agree with this except if Williams is ahead of Perry i dont think he is gonna at right say that....

 

[Cribby]

Williams may be legit for this year.

I don’t know.

Let’s review some facts from last year at this time and from last summer.

We were being told by the same insiders that Rosier was looking really bad in practices, thereby his chances at being the starter were very poor, that the coaches were planning to try to start Perry, or at the very least give him every single possible chance to be the man last year.

Do I need to pull up those posts?

Remember all the “Perry da gawww” porsts?

About 90% of the board was in the throes of the N’Kosi rapture. Until about the 2nd or 3 rd week in August.

That info was real info from the same real insiders. I would never question that. It’s how that information is interpreted and processed that’s not so easy. Things can get lost in translation,

I don’t doubt that Williams has looked good to some in some spots. I just wonder if these observers are getting the whole picture. They sure weren’t last year.

In my opinion, I wouldn’t count Perry out. Just like I thought Malik would get the job last year. Malik has the lead now. I still think Perry could unseat him because I’m not buying any evaluations unless they come from Rick. Or Rosier could still end up ahead.

I’m not even counting out Williams.

But this business about Williams already blowing by Perry?

Nah....not unless we hear it after the scrimmage on Saturday from Rick.

The difference is Perry was a lot more raw than most thought , he also didn’t Ee.

JW is a football nerd , that ee to battle for the job. He’s also been coached up ( unlike Perry). JW as an Ee is already night and day better than Kosi was last fall.

I’m a kosi guy but he has no chance against Williams, none. He’s already smarter , more accurate , better mechanics and student of the game than kosi.

The only thing I’d give kosi is he’s a tad faster and has unreal physical talent , which means nothing if that’s all you have.

The real question is if and when he passes Malik?The only things Malik has on him is reps and game experience. Nothing else . Which might be enough for now.

 

[brock]

Look who knows what will happen, malik accuracy is bad. If he fixes it we might have something but im not holding my breath on that happening. But I also won’t just write someone off as if they can’t improve. In the fall if one of the young guns can’t beat him out then we roll with Malik until we need to make a change. Feel much better about this season than i did last year considering the talent that’s all over the roster and malik like it or not has some games under his belt which isn’t what he had in 2017 other than that 2015 duke win. Regardless I love The talent of the 2 young qbs.


Side note. I think It’s time to stop writing people off the moment they don’t come on to campus guns blazing. It takes some guys more time than others and some weren’t working with the same resources as other players in highschool. Take Perry and Williams for example. Williams came from central Gwinnett which plays good comp, seemingly better coaches and weight program than what Perry had at vanguard. So Williams might be more prepared than Perry was last year(he is). It’s still Perry’s 2nd semester in college and he still needs to grow as a player. He’s not a finish product, in fact no one is.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Yup, the only one that should be written off is Rosier.

The only one who's ever won a game outside of high school. Have you considered applying to be an assistant coach? I'm sure they need a ton of brilliant minds like yours.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

The difference is Perry was a lot more raw than most thought , he also didn’t Ee.

JW is a football nerd , that ee to battle for the job. He’s also been coached up ( unlike Perry). JW as an Ee is night and day better than Kosi was in August.

I’m a kosi guy but he has no chance against Williams, none. He’s already smarter , more accurate , better mechanics and student of the game than kosi.

The only thing I’d give kosi is he’s a tad faster and has unreal physical talent , which means nothing of that’s all you have.

The real question is if and when he passes Malik.The only things Malik have on him is reps and game experience. Nothing else .

You’re making a ton of assumptions based on limited information and wishful thinking.

First, I’m not so sure that Perry can’t get better between now and the season if he sets his mind to do it.

He hasn’t been on campus a year yet and people are already writing him off.

They’re doing the same thing as last year when they crowned him, just in reverse.

Now we’re doing the same thing with Williams. While I think he’s definitely better prepared than Perry last year, how couldn’t he be - he’s an EE, it’s still a lot to learn.

I hope what you’re saying is true and we’ve found a stud 3 year starter, but there’s not enough info.

Again, people keep making the same mistakes. Basing projections on limited information and wishful thinking. It’s happening again this year.

Let’s see what happens in the scrimmage.

If Williams has indeed caught up to, or passed Perry, you’ll hear it from the coaches, and see it in the results after the scrimmage.

Pay attention to actual facts, and who each QB lines up with and what Rick says...and don’t massage the facts to fit your wishful thinking.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Look who knows what will happen, malik accuracy is bad. If he fixes it we might have something but im not holding my breath on that happening. But I also won’t just write someone off as if they can’t improve. In the fall if one of the young guns can’t beat him out then we roll with Malik until we need to make a change. Feel much better about this season than i did last year considering the talent that’s all over the roster and malik like it or not has some games under his belt which isn’t what he had in 2017 other than that 2015 duke win. Regardless I love The talent of the 2 young qbs.


Side note. I think It’s time to stop writing people off the moment they don’t come on to campus guns blazing. It takes some guys more time than others and some weren’t working with the same resources as other players in highschool. Take Perry and Williams for example. Williams came from central Gwinnett which plays good comp, seemingly better coaches and weight program than what Perry had at vanguard. So Williams might be more prepared than Perry was last year(he is). It’s still Perry’s 2nd semester in college and he still needs to grow as a player. He’s not a finish product, in fact no one is.

One thing I'm optimistic about this season over last is what I touched on above. If your QB doesn't know how to properly run the offense, if he doesn't have a real good grasp on what he's doing under center, then the rest of the offense isn't getting effective reps. The overall quality of practice suffers on both sides of the ball because the defense isn't competing against a properly run offense, they're feasting on mistakes. Defense is good when it succeeds in spite of the offense executing flawlessly. When you just get out there and snuff a play out for minimal gain with a nice form tackle. You can't practice that effectively when half the reps you're exploiting QB misreads and mistakes.

This season, CMR says Rosier knows what he's doing out there and the rest of the guys trust him to know what to do and get them in the right play. That means a ton as far as the overall quality of each rep in each practice. You can despise Rosier all you want and pray for someone to pass him on the chart, but he is giving our guys quality reps that we desperately need in order to get better at each position.