Williams showing he has plenty of potential

[CaneSB]

Despite all of the mountains of fail that Ive seen from al golden, this is the one that irks me most. The fact that golden blamed every single loss in 2014 on the offense yet refused to allow Ryan Williams to take a single meaningful snap is very telling of the type of man golden is. We all know the upperclassmen on the roster wanted Williams getting time. We also know that golden blamed the entire season on those seniors for not buying into his bull**** system. I have no doubt that golden withheld playing time from Williams because he felt he'd be losing to his own team.

I would absolutely love to see Ryan Williams become the next Luther Robinson.

So you would've preferred an inferior talent start at quarterback simply because that's what the players wanted?

I get your point but I don't see how you could've started Williams after Kaaya had that breakthrough in the middle of the season.

You are making the assumption that Kaaya had a great season. He was the QB of a team that went 6-7 and the coach blamed every single loss on the offense. Something doesnt mesh up here. Im certainly not of the opinion that a 5th year senior version of Ryan Williams was inferior to a true freshman Brad Kaaya. And the fact that golden did everything in his power to avoid us finding out for certain gives me fuel.

I understood Williams not looking good at UNC in 2012, but there are a lot of variables in play there. We were running an offensive system that was designed for Stephen Morris (i.e.: lots of long balls and deep outs). We never utilized the TE or the middle of the field under that system. The system we had in place in 2014 suited Ryan Williams much better and I have little doubt that he would have excelled in that system. But golden simply refused to give him a chance.

****, we were a 6-5 team playing a meaningless home game against a 5-6 Pittsburgh Panther team and golden wouldn't give Ryan Williams a few snaps on senior day. This guy is a piece of **** in my opinion. This argument is valid as far as I can tell. Please tell me what you see differently? What did Brad Kaaya do to actually win games for us this season?

Again - none of this is meant to be knock on Brad Kaaya. He is a good kid, hard worker and has a pretty good freshman year, but he was far from infallible and far from deserving of every single snap, especially given the team's record.....and goldens post game comments after every single loss.

Pretty good freshman? Dude you need to see a doctor.

Here is a "quick" comparison of some notable QBs freshman season stats. Some SO for those who didnt play at freshman.

Yea. This list only includes Russell Wilson, Phil Rivers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Adrew Luck, AJ McCarron, and Danny Wuerfell.

Seriously, you are embarrassing to read.

 

[L A M P]

So you would've preferred an inferior talent start at quarterback simply because that's what the players wanted?

Elite talent that is undeveloped is not anymore valuable than average talent that has been maximized.

You start Ryan Williams bc we would've won more than 6 games with him at QB.

 

[SFbayCane]

View attachment 29829

Pretty good freshman? Dude you need to see a doctor.

Here is a "quick" comparison of some notable QBs freshman season stats. Some SO for those who didnt play at freshman.

Yea. This list only includes Russell Wilson, Phil Rivers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Adrew Luck, AJ McCarron, and Danny Wuerfell.

Seriously, you are embarrassing to read.

Im not sure what that mini table is saying, can barely read it and it has no source link. If you want QB comparisons, I too can provide one from the same conference that seems comparable.



Chris Rix (2001). ACC ROY winner:

165 of 286 (58%)
2734 yards
24 TD's
13 Int's
156.6 QB Rating




Brad Kaaya (2014) ACC ROY winner:
221 of 378 (58.5%)
3198
26 TD's
12 Int's
145.9 Rating





Now ask yourself, who among all of the QB's listed on both of our comparative examples had the most surrounding talent?? My guess (without having reviewed all of the rosters) is that it would be Brad Kaaya circa 2014. Think about that.

Save your embarrassment bull**** for someone else. My input is sound. You don't have to agree but Im not just speaking to speak. Maybe, juuuuuust maybe there's a reason why the bulk of the starters wanted Ryan Williams to start. And that's likely also the reason why Golden refused to give the kid a couple series on senior day.


BTW - Can you offer up an explanation as to why coach golden blamed every loss on the offense?

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

View attachment 29829

Pretty good freshman? Dude you need to see a doctor.

Here is a "quick" comparison of some notable QBs freshman season stats. Some SO for those who didnt play at freshman.

Yea. This list only includes Russell Wilson, Phil Rivers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Adrew Luck, AJ McCarron, and Danny Wuerfell.

Seriously, you are embarrassing to read.

Im not sure what that mini table is saying, can barely read it and it has no source link. If you want QB comparisons, I too can provide one from the same conference that seems comparable.



Chris Rix (2001). ACC ROY winner:

165 of 286 (58%)
2734 yards
24 TD's
13 Int's
156.6 QB Rating




Brad Kaaya (2014) ACC ROY winner:
221 of 378 (58.5%)
3198
26 TD's
12 Int's
145.9 Rating





Now ask yourself, who among all of the QB's listed on both of our comparative examples had the most surrounding talent?? My guess (without having reviewed all of the rosters) is that it would be Brad Kaaya circa 2014. Think about that.

Save your embarrassment bull**** for someone else. My input is sound. You don't have to agree but Im not just speaking to speak. Maybe, juuuuuust maybe there's a reason why the bulk of the starters wanted Ryan Williams to start. And that's likely also the reason why Golden refused to give the kid a couple series on senior day.


BTW - Can you offer up an explanation as to why coach golden blamed every loss on the offense?

Meh, sounds like you're beating the same drum here...more downplaying of Kaaya and more baseless assumptions that Williams would have performed as well or better.

You ask "who among all of the QB's listed on both of our comparative examples had the most surrounding talent?" Well, Payton Manning's UT team, Wuerfell's team at UF, McCarron at Bama all won national titles and only lost a small handful of games in their respective careers. I'd say they had better supporting casts based on that fact.

Maybe, just maybe a few of the starters considered Williams a friend, and so didn't want their friend benched in favor of a young upstart.

Maybe, just maybe a few of the starters didn't want to take orders from some young hotshot punk fresh outta some exclusive HS in Cali.

You're putting wayyyyy too much emphasis on what a bunch of finicky kids wanted rather than what the coaches saw on a daily basis.

Granted, it's difficult to trust the evaluations of this coaching staff (Golden and D'Onofrio in particular), but Coley has a pretty decent eye for talent as far as I'm aware, and Kaaya's stats bear that out.

 

[CaneSB]

View attachment 29829

Pretty good freshman? Dude you need to see a doctor.

Here is a "quick" comparison of some notable QBs freshman season stats. Some SO for those who didnt play at freshman.

Yea. This list only includes Russell Wilson, Phil Rivers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Adrew Luck, AJ McCarron, and Danny Wuerfell.

Seriously, you are embarrassing to read.

Im not sure what that mini table is saying, can barely read it and it has no source link. If you want QB comparisons, I too can provide one from the same conference that seems comparable.



Chris Rix (2001). ACC ROY winner:

165 of 286 (58%)
2734 yards
24 TD's
13 Int's
156.6 QB Rating




Brad Kaaya (2014) ACC ROY winner:
221 of 378 (58.5%)
3198
26 TD's
12 Int's
145.9 Rating





Now ask yourself, who among all of the QB's listed on both of our comparative examples had the most surrounding talent?? My guess (without having reviewed all of the rosters) is that it would be Brad Kaaya circa 2014. Think about that.

Save your embarrassment bull**** for someone else. My input is sound. You don't have to agree but Im not just speaking to speak. Maybe, juuuuuust maybe there's a reason why the bulk of the starters wanted Ryan Williams to start. And that's likely also the reason why Golden refused to give the kid a couple series on senior day.


BTW - Can you offer up an explanation as to why coach golden blamed every loss on the offense?

As a moderator, i would expect a more articulate argument. Please, clearly, state your point?

Chris Rix had a fantastic freshman season. Not sure how that comparison supports your absolutely ridiculous idea that Ryan Williams should have been the starter.

Who gives a **** that SOME players wanted Ryan Williams to start. The actual premise of the players dividing the team over this is the exact reason why this program has sucked for 10 years. Duke Johnson's 3 fumbles in critical situations were significantly more of a factor to losing games than ANY other variable on the planet. IT IS A MATHEMATICAL FACT. Why don't you bash him?

You should take a step back and take a deep breath. Look at the guys the other QBs who had similar freshman years stats played with and you will understand that Kaaya had the LEAST talented team of all of them.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

I think Kaaya has a ways to go. I do believe he benefitted from playing with an experience cast. Like mean he played with the school all-time leading rusher, all-time leading tight end and arguably our fastest wide out in school history. The last qb to walked into that type of talent was Brock Berlin. Although his stats were good he made a lot of mistakes. That being said, I was still impressed because he came during the summer and won the position in the fall. He still made some nice plays that showed his potential and gives us hope for the future. I don't think Williams was ever a good qb here. He was here for 3 years and outside a few people touting his size and number he didn't do much. I mean even an NFL scout said we would have been in trouble a couple of years ago if Mortis went down. The kid may have been nice but he wasn't that talented. I could careless what the players wanted. Outside of 3 people, no one on the offense has done anything to openly vouch for anyone. Kaaya did his thing. Too be honest I don't think Williamd would have matched Kaaya's numbers. We talk about under utilized PD was if Williams played we may not have seen any deep balls...

Although I said Kaaya has a ways to go, that doesn't mean I wasn't impressed. The kid balled but he was inconsistent even with the weapons. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that the comparison to Rix may be closer than we realize. PD, Duke and Walford all either were signed and committed by the prior staff. You can see it as well because I don't see anyone on the roster that can match physical and playmaking attributes as the aforementioned 3. We're going to be slower and less explosive. Dobsrd may be productive but I don't see him matching Walford's production. I don't see anyone matching PD's or Dukes impact either. It's going to be a transition year for Kaaya.

Oh back on the topic. Kaaya was/is better than Williams. I have been watching the guy since he was in high school but I was never impressed...

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

I think Golden is an incompetent boob but let's be serious -- if he would have benched Kaaya for Williams mid season this entire fanbase would have crucified him, and for good reason. Once Kaaya's redshirt was burnt you have to stick with him unless he was totally stinking up the field, which was not the case. The last thing you want to do is mess with Kaaya's head after he won the starting job. And let's be real -- Williams is a great kid and I wish him nothing but the best, but it's not like we had 2001 Ken Dorsey sitting on the bench. He wasn't going to single handedly overcome Golden's ****** scheme and Coley's awful play calling. Of all the things we can rightfully criticize Golden for, this is not one of them.

 

[ThomasM]

Had Williams not been hurt and unable to play to start the season, he'd have been the starter. Period. Had Kaaya struggled more than he did when Williams was ready, Williams would have played. The only problem I have is Williams not playing in his last game against Pitt. The game was 100% meaningless, and the kid absolutely deserved some real playing time. Kaaya had done more than enough to solidify his starter label going into next season, and got enough experience under his belt that missing ONE game would have done him no harm. It might have even done him some good watching a game from the sidelines.

I have no problem with Kaaya starting, and keeping the job. I just feel that Williams deserved SOMETHING for all the hard work he'd put in over the last few years. Especially when we were eliminated from everything anyway. What the heck do we have to lose? If Williams struggles, put Kaaya in. If he plays great, it builds some momentum moving forward for him.

 

[MarcoD70]

So you would've preferred an inferior talent start at quarterback simply because that's what the players wanted?

Elite talent that is undeveloped is not anymore valuable than average talent that has been maximized.

You start Ryan Williams bc we would've won more than 6 games with him at QB.

Ummmm
Unless Ryan Williams played defense, I don't agree. All the love in the world to Duke Johnson but I actually felt like 2 of his fumbles cost us games. Kaaya did fine.

 

[MarcoD70]

Had Williams not been hurt and unable to play to start the season, he'd have been the starter. Period. Had Kaaya struggled more than he did when Williams was ready, Williams would have played. The only problem I have is Williams not playing in his last game against Pitt. The game was 100% meaningless, and the kid absolutely deserved some real playing time. Kaaya had done more than enough to solidify his starter label going into next season, and got enough experience under his belt that missing ONE game would have done him no harm. It might have even done him some good watching a game from the sidelines.

I have no problem with Kaaya starting, and keeping the job. I just feel that Williams deserved SOMETHING for all the hard work he'd put in over the last few years. Especially when we were eliminated from everything anyway. What the heck do we have to lose? If Williams struggles, put Kaaya in. If he plays great, it builds some momentum moving forward for him.

agree with this...
It would have been nice to see him get out there....UNLESS there was some sort of redshirt hopes?? I thought that was talked about at one point...that they may have had a way to redshirt him...some loophole?
Am I crazy?

 

[L A M P]

Kaaya did fine.

Stats wise, yes.. but I think he was the main reason our offense struggled to consistently move the football (besides having a high school OC calling plays). Not a knock on Kaaya though. When a coach starts a true freshman he should expect turnovers, low completion %, unnecessary sacks, etc..

 

[SFbayCane]

As a moderator, i would expect a more articulate argument. Please, clearly, state your point?

Chris Rix had a fantastic freshman season. Not sure how that comparison supports your absolutely ridiculous idea that Ryan Williams should have been the starter.

Who gives a **** that SOME players wanted Ryan Williams to start. The actual premise of the players dividing the team over this is the exact reason why this program has sucked for 10 years. Duke Johnson's 3 fumbles in critical situations were significantly more of a factor to losing games than ANY other variable on the planet. IT IS A MATHEMATICAL FACT. Why don't you bash him?

You should take a step back and take a deep breath. Look at the guys the other QBs who had similar freshman years stats played with and you will understand that Kaaya had the LEAST talented team of all of them.

You seem really fired up about this. lol

Here's my point as succinctly as I can type it: I take issue (to an extent) with al golden never giving Ryan Williams any meaningful playing time during his entire career. I felt he deserved some in 2013 and in 2014. I take major issue with golden not giving him playing time on senior day when the other seniors (and some juniors) approached him about it. We were a 6-5 team playing at home against a 5-6 team. It was senior day and the only thing on the line was 8th or 9th place in the entire ACC, yet golden would not do it.

As it relates to this topic, this sub-point is part of my opinion: Brad Kaaya had a wonderful freshman year but his performance was far from being above reproach.

 

[Tad Footeball]

Ryan Williams. Seemingly nice kid... that showed us absolutely nothing ever to lead anyone to believe he would have been even remotely "good" as the starter under the current atmosphere. I think reasonable people are more apt in assuming that he would have had promise to be an average to decent QB if he was in some great system under a great head corch or OC. His talent/potential alone, however, is probably why the kid should probably expect to follow that original narrative we were fed about him wanting to get on with his life and not count on even making a CFL roster.

 

[MIA42178]

I guess this debate will go on for awhile..I do think RW would have been worth a couple more victories. Which ones? Not sure. Does it even matter? At the end of the day, if BK balls out this year, it was all worth it.

We would have won last two or three had we switched just based on team giving up after FSU.
But it would've been a bad decision to do that at the time

 

[Crazy4thecanes]

Thinking back to year before last - it does give one pause to consider that he didn't get any playing time when Morris was hobbling around on one ankle. Even though we generally don't respect the coaches involved, wouldn't a reasonable person assume that the kid just didn't have it? If he rode the bench when Morris was gimping around and completely immobile - I'd have to assume he wasn't even a serviceable QB.

And if he blows it up in the league then I will 'up vote' every single post bashing Golen as a complete ******* moron.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

Thinking back to year before last - it does give one pause to consider that he didn't get any playing time when Morris was hobbling around on one ankle. Even though we generally don't respect the coaches involved, wouldn't a reasonable person assume that the kid just didn't have it? If he rode the bench when Morris was gimping around and completely immobile - I'd have to assume he wasn't even a serviceable QB.

This is actually a better debate and more legitimate question to ask than whether Williams should have replaced Kaaya this past season.

 

[Tad Footeball]

The thing I also don't understand about the Williams apologists is the lack of "big picture" vision even if we assume their best case scenario. Let's say RW was good for 2 more wins and possibly a bowl victory. You know what that would have negated in the present? Alfredo being on a legitimate hot seat and Kaaya getting the "learning" year under his belt. Instead it'd be this year where Golden would have to completely **** the bed to be placed on the hot seat NEXT season because he was coming off an acceptable (in the administration's eyes) season and was dealing with a "first year" QB in Kaaya this year. So y'all can wear the rose colored glasses about what might have been with RW but in the end the best thing happened even if you were right.

 

[Port Knox]

Thinking back to year before last - it does give one pause to consider that he didn't get any playing time when Morris was hobbling around on one ankle. Even though we generally don't respect the coaches involved, wouldn't a reasonable person assume that the kid just didn't have it? If he rode the bench when Morris was gimping around and completely immobile - I'd have to assume he wasn't even a serviceable QB.

This is actually a better debate and more legitimate question to ask than whether Williams should have replaced Kaaya this past season.

The coach has never fired an assistant. So doubt he'd ever fire his starting qb.

 

[MarcoD70]

I guess this debate will go on for awhile..I do think RW would have been worth a couple more victories. Which ones? Not sure. Does it even matter? At the end of the day, if BK balls out this year, it was all worth it.

We would have won last two or three had we switched just based on team giving up after FSU.
But it would've been a bad decision to do that at the time

If youre telling me that we had the type of players who were willing to let themselves get treated like *****es on tv to UVA and PITT becsuse Ryan Williams didnt get to play then I say....tell them to keep bending over. Thats garbage....
Wait till their nfl coach makes them run punt coverage....smh.

 

[ThomasM]

I think that was blown earlier in the year with some real meaningless snaps. I was HOPING Williams would sit out all year and try for a medical redshirt, because IF Kaaya goes down next year with an injury, we are in deep, deep doodoo.

Had Williams not been hurt and unable to play to start the season, he'd have been the starter. Period. Had Kaaya struggled more than he did when Williams was ready, Williams would have played. The only problem I have is Williams not playing in his last game against Pitt. The game was 100% meaningless, and the kid absolutely deserved some real playing time. Kaaya had done more than enough to solidify his starter label going into next season, and got enough experience under his belt that missing ONE game would have done him no harm. It might have even done him some good watching a game from the sidelines.

I have no problem with Kaaya starting, and keeping the job. I just feel that Williams deserved SOMETHING for all the hard work he'd put in over the last few years. Especially when we were eliminated from everything anyway. What the heck do we have to lose? If Williams struggles, put Kaaya in. If he plays great, it builds some momentum moving forward for him.

agree with this...
It would have been nice to see him get out there....UNLESS there was some sort of redshirt hopes?? I thought that was talked about at one point...that they may have had a way to redshirt him...some loophole?
Am I crazy?