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Who, exactly, ranks the recruits?

Martycane

Martycane

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Can someone in the know —Stefan, DMoney, anyone else — explain how 247, Rivals, Scout, ESPN decide on who gets 2, 3, 4, stars?
— Do they hire experienced coaches/ex-players, etc to do this?
— Do they send scouts to camps to watch recruits up close?
— Do they attend a lot of games?
— Do they operate off of highlight films or full game films?
— Are there specialists by region, position?
— Are recommendations sent to a grand committee of wise men?
— Is the most important criterion who the top schools are recruiting?
— Are there quotas — i.e., South Florida can only get so many.
— Are there 400-pound guys in pajamas in their basements putting it all together from the Internet?

We follow these ranks like it’s life or death. Just want to know how it all works...
 

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its evolved and it has gotten a lot better. IDK exactly how it works but it has became a lot more accurate
 
Martycane said:
Can someone in the know —Stefan, DMoney, anyone else — explain how 247, Rivals, Scout, ESPN decide on who gets 2, 3, 4, stars?
— Do they hire experienced coaches/ex-players, etc to do this?
— Do they send scouts to camps to watch recruits up close?
— Do they attend a lot of games?
— Do they operate off of highlight films or full game films?
— Are there specialists by region, position?
— Are recommendations sent to a grand committee of wise men?
— Is the most important criterion who the top schools are recruiting?
— Are there quotas — i.e., South Florida can only get so many.
— Are there 400-pound guys in pajamas in their basements putting it all together from the Internet?

We follow these ranks like it’s life or death. Just want to know how it all works...
Click to expand...


You're asking the question of recruiting questions. After.. "who exactly is a take for us" anyway?
Most of them DO go to games to watch certain players or teams with multiple prospects in person. And most of their actual scouts (not the reporters or beat writers) know what they're doing. They do watch highlight films. The camp settings also have a huge impact on their rankings. They do assign regions to their scouts. And yes, rankings are determined by committee.

The problem is the sheer number of recruits mean most will go unscouted. Ive seen wealthy kids go from camp to camp to camp just to get their name out. They're essentially buying a ranking at that point.

For example Rivals hears about a 6'7 - 315 lb tackle, from the middle of nowhere in Idaho, who supposedly benches 400 lbs and runs a 4.5 forty. They know how unrealistic this is. They would first contact instate coaches and other industry scouts to see if he's the real deal and worth seeing in person. If he is, they'll send someone out to watch him. If he is legit, they'll invite him to a regional camp to see how he does in a 1v1 camp setting and they'll go from there. If nobody can confirm the guys numbers, they'll either end it right there or wait until someone shows them something real.

Then there is his offer list. Just google bama bump in recruiting. Basically Bama is god, we are peasants and if Bama offers, he MUST be legit. Technically... it applies whenever a big name school accepts a commitment from an unranked player. For some reason I seem to remember Rivals not having Michael Jackson ranked until he committed. Though it couldve been another one of our guys. Anyway, after he committed, they reviewed his film and measurments and he went from NR to a 3*, eventually ending up as a 4*. Looking at his offer list on Rivals (Michael Jackson, 2015 Cornerback - Rivals.com) and I'm pretty sure it was him.

That works both ways unfortunately. Unranked kids are notorious for using schools just to get their names out.

Size plays a role as well. The example of the 6'7 mystery tackle from Idaho has a leg up on any 6'1 tackle, just for being that big. Scaife is patient zero for this example. He crushed Rivals camp last year. Over and over again, he embarrassed everyone who got in his way. He made it up to #61 overall. But they just couldn't bring themselves to rank a 6'3 - 270 lb tackle any higher due to those measurements.
Brevin Jordan is another example. Ive said before that I coached TEs. Ive watched every second of his available film. He is an absolute monster, but he is 6'3, not 6'5. I actually took a screenshot of the scout on 247 talking about Brevin's height keeping him from being ranked higher and @IndayArtHauz (hope you and twins are good man) sent it to Brevin. He was less than thrilled. Good times.
 
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For 247, there's a 5 person committee that has the final say, it currently is:

-Barton Simmons - national recruiting analyst
-Steve Wiltfong - same
-Luke Stampini -UF recruiting insider (lol)
-Greg Biggins - west coast analyst
-Gabe Brooks - state of Texas analyst

Per Ivins, they ask other people for their opinions on guys, but those 5 have the final say
 
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TheRichtShow said:
For 247, there's a 5 person committee that has the final say, it currently is:

-Barton Simmons - national recruiting analyst
-Steve Wiltfong - same
-Luke Stampini -UF recruiting insider (lol)
-Greg Biggins - west coast analyst
-Gabe Brooks - state of Texas analyst

Per Ivins, they ask other people for their opinions on guys, but those 5 have the final say
Click to expand...
Georgia writers be virtually begging for their recruits to be rated higher after last cycle. Now they are involved in the rankings a bit too. Maybe that explains the disparity in high rankings recruits in Florida vs the amount georgia this year.
 
Martycane said:
Can someone in the know —Stefan, DMoney, anyone else — explain how 247, Rivals, Scout, ESPN decide on who gets 2, 3, 4, stars?
— Do they hire experienced coaches/ex-players, etc to do this?
— Do they send scouts to camps to watch recruits up close?
— Do they attend a lot of games?
— Do they operate off of highlight films or full game films?
— Are there specialists by region, position?
— Are recommendations sent to a grand committee of wise men?
— Is the most important criterion who the top schools are recruiting?
— Are there quotas — i.e., South Florida can only get so many.
— Are there 400-pound guys in pajamas in their basements putting it all together from the Internet?

We follow these ranks like it’s life or death. Just want to know how it all works...
Click to expand...
they are mostly rejected sports reporters who failed miserably at t-ball and flag football... or they weasels being paid off by some of the bigger schools around the country!
 
The only question I can answer is they do limit the amount of 5 star players within a state. Florida may have 10 players deserving a 5 star rating, but only so many of them will actually get 5 stars. I read it awhile back and I never forgot it. That alone tells me the rankings are a bit off in one way or another.
 
AtrainCane said:
The only question I can answer is they do limit the amount of 5 star players within a state. Florida may have 10 players deserving a 5 star rating, but only so many of them will actually get 5 stars. I read it awhile back and I never forgot it. That alone tells me the rankings are a bit off in one way or another.
Click to expand...
It’s horrible this year only 3 players from the state of Florida are 5 stars, 4 if you include Nolan smith at img who is from Georgia
 
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SCarolina Ibis said:
You're asking the question of recruiting questions. After.. "who exactly is a take for us" anyway.
Most of them DO go to games to watch certain players or teams with multiple prospects in person. And most of their actual scouts (not the reporters or beat writers) know what they're doing. They do watch highlight films. The camp settings also have a huge impact on their rankings. They do assign regions to their scouts. And yes, rankings are determined by committee.

The problem is the sheer number of recruits mean most will go unscouted. Ive seen wealthy kids go from camp to camp to camp just to get their name out. They're essentially buying a ranking at that point.

For example Rivals hears about a 6'7 - 315 lb tackle, from the middle of nowhere in Idaho, who supposedly benches 400 lbs and runs a 4.5 forty. They know how unrealistic this is. They would first contact instate coaches and other industry scouts to see if he's the real deal and worth seeing in person. If he is, they'll send someone out to watch him. If he is legit, they'll invite him to a regional camp to see how he does in a 1v1 camp setting and they'll go from there. If nobody can confirm the guys numbers, they'll either end it right there or wait until someone shows them something real.

Then there is his offer list. Just google bama bump in recruiting. Basically Bama is god, we are peasants and if Bama offers, he MUST be legit. Technically... it applies whenever a big name school accepts a commitment from an unranked player. For some reason I seem to remember Rivals not having Michael Jackson ranked until he committed. Though it couldve been another one of our guys. Anyway, after he committed, they reviewed his film and measurments and he went from NR to a 3*, eventually ending up as a 4*. Looking at his offer list on Rivals (Michael Jackson, 2015 Cornerback - Rivals.com) and I'm pretty sure it was him.

That works both ways unfortunately. Unranked kids are notorious for using schools just to get their names out.

Size plays a role as well. The example of the 6'7 mystery tackle from Idaho has a leg up on any 6'1 tackle, just for being that big. Scaife is patient zero for this example. He crushed Rivals camp last year. Over and over again, he embarrassed everyone who got in his way. He made it up to #61 overall. But they just couldn't bring themselves to rank a 6'3 - 270 lb tackle any higher due to those measurements.
Brevin Jordan is another example. Ive said before that I coached TEs. Ive watched every second of his available film. He is an absolute monster, but he is 6'3, not 6'5. I actually took a screenshot of the scout on 247 talking about Brevin's height keeping him from being ranked higher and @IndayArtHauz (hope you and twins are good man) sent it to Brevin. He was less than thrilled. Good times.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I get it better now.
 
I know one of them played ball at Yale I forgot which one. I respect his opinion.
 
TheRichtShow said:
For 247, there's a 5 person committee that has the final say, it currently is:

-Barton Simmons - national recruiting analyst
-Steve Wiltfong - same
-Luke Stampini -UF recruiting insider (lol)
-Greg Biggins - west coast analyst
-Gabe Brooks - state of Texas analyst

Per Ivins, they ask other people for their opinions on guys, but those 5 have the final say
Click to expand...

Outside of reporting on FBS ball and following certain teams or conferences have any of these guys actually played at a collegiate level?
 
AtrainCane said:
The only question I can answer is they do limit the amount of 5 star players within a state. Florida may have 10 players deserving a 5 star rating, but only so many of them will actually get 5 stars. I read it awhile back and I never forgot it. That alone tells me the rankings are a bit off in one way or another.
Click to expand...

The other weird thing some others have said is they make it exactly 32 5* players each year. Supposedly to line up with the first round of the NFL draft. Feels like a bad way to go about it. I know it is all subjective but on forecasting how players will be, but it seems like you could get in a weak year and get bumped up to a 5* just because numbers, while someone 10 times better than you the next year can't break the 5* because it a strong year.
 
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The same type of guys that post on this board who have the athletic ability of this guy throwing the football

 
— Do they hire experienced coaches/ex-players, etc to do this?
No
— Do they send scouts to camps to watch recruits up close?
Yes but calling them scouts is generous
— Do they attend a lot of games?
No
— Do they operate off of highlight films or full game films?
Former, if at all
— Are there specialists by region, position?
By region, for convenience purposes. There is nothing special about these "analysts"
— Are recommendations sent to a grand committee of wise men?
There is a ranking committee and they leverage contacts throughout the industry and football circles. But they are far from wise - see Brevin Jordan example above
— Is the most important criterion who the top schools are recruiting?
Yes, but athletic testing and camp exposure are big too. These rankings are very political and biased
— Are there quotas — i.e., South Florida can only get so many.
In theory? no. In practice? probably
— Are there 400-pound guys in pajamas in their basements putting it all together from the Internet?
Pretty much closest example to reality out of all these questions. These are largely overweight white men with minimal athletic experience advancing through amateur reporting backgrounds to become the 'authority' on projecting HS football players.
 
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Although getting recruited by the top schools and camp exposure are important, let’s not forget that by far the most important factor is elite 400 meter track times
 
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