What Miami fans can take away from ND's turn around

Their interior DLine sets the foundation for the entire team. We're at least 2 years away from any kind of sustained dominance in that area.

This. We are nowhere near where we need to be on the defensive line. Guys like McCord, Hamilton, Rico Williams, Ivery, Moore have a big time offseason in front of them.

Notre Dame did it by their third year and have a defensive line whose best players are a true sophomore and true junior and the two deep on defense has like 16 "Brian Kelly Guys" aka, guys he recruited (true juniors, true sophomores, and freshmenz).

So do you think Porter, Pierre and Robinson will be sufficient to reach that status?

I actually like all three guys, but the bigger issue is that we need depth. Its not enough to have 2 or 3 guys competent enough to play the position. In order to take that next step we need 8-10 guys who we can count on up front. Losing a guy like Porter shouldn't be catastrophic. Let's face it, none of these guys are superstars either. On great UM teams, guys like these are the second line guys, the guys who set us apart because we can bring them in so we have waves of dominant fresh d linemen.

To that end I don't really like the "well he did it in year 3" line of thinking. Randy on COH used to always say that if you cant get it done by year 2 you aint getting it done. Each situation is unique and different. Its certainly possible, but in my view its more dependent on getting the other guys, like Ivery, Moore, Hamilton, McCord to the point where we can rely upon them to play big snaps when called on.
 
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I was thinking something similar, but more in general terms than specifics. ND has returned to relevance once again. Stanford has been a 4 year consistent top 20 team. Both schools have to field students and not thugs and they have managed to win.
Heck even Vandy has an 8 win season in the SEC. Ped St, the only coach/team/program with more of an albatross on them than us, somehow manages to stay focused for a respectable season. Washington, for crying out loud snuck into the top 25 this year. How is that? They were further down the hole than we were. Do they have better recruits? Better coaches? Players that care more about playing college ball instead of checking draft status? Do they have dominant interior DL? Or OL?

As usual we're at that point on the calendar when the excuse makers roll out the littany of the why's, when, and what if's. Not interested. The admin is wholly comfortable with performances like this year and last. Keep the players out of trouble and keep the academic rankings steady and all is well. A perfect example would be to see if Shalala calls for O'NoDbeingplayedoutthereonceagain's head. Any coach, AD, or President that accepts as pathetic season long performance as we suffered under this DC , shows me how inept they all are. We were as awful against Duke as we were against BC. Not one single element of the defense improved over the course of the season.

We have spent how many years tyring to get back from the Coker era. We are about to enter into depths that will take another decade to recover from. One or two DT's will be the least of our worries over the next few years.
 
I was thinking something similar, but more in general terms than specifics. ND has returned to relevance once again. Stanford has been a 4 year consistent top 20 team. Both schools have to field students and not thugs and they have managed to win.
Heck even Vandy has an 8 win season in the SEC. Ped St, the only coach/team/program with more of an albatross on them than us, somehow manages to stay focused for a respectable season. Washington, for crying out loud snuck into the top 25 this year. How is that? They were further down the hole than we were. Do they have better recruits? Better coaches? Players that care more about playing college ball instead of checking draft status? Do they have dominant interior DL? Or OL?

As usual we're at that point on the calendar when the excuse makers roll out the littany of the why's, when, and what if's. Not interested. The admin is wholly comfortable with performances like this year and last. Keep the players out of trouble and keep the academic rankings steady and all is well. A perfect example would be to see if Shalala calls for O'NoDbeingplayedoutthereonceagain's head. Any coach, AD, or President that accepts as pathetic season long performance as we suffered under this DC , shows me how inept they all are. We were as awful against Duke as we were against BC. Not one single element of the defense improved over the course of the season.

We have spent how many years tyring to get back from the Coker era. We are about to enter into depths that will take another decade to recover from. One or two DT's will be the least of our worries over the next few years.


This is delusional. Do you really think our defensive talent this year was even in the same stratosphere as Stanford or ND? I question whether anyone on our def line would get any playing time on either of those teams, much less start.

Denzel is probably the only player on our defense that would start on those teams, and he was hobbled or out for 1/2 the season.
 
If it's one thing that is completely obvious to even the most casual college football fan, it's one year can absolutely CHANGE EVERYTHING.
 
I feel if Moore,Ivery,King and Briscoe can go bonkers in the weight room over the next 9 months we will make a huge leap. They know what it feels like to be manhandled and what they need to do to reverse the trend.
 
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I was thinking something similar, but more in general terms than specifics. ND has returned to relevance once again. Stanford has been a 4 year consistent top 20 team. Both schools have to field students and not thugs and they have managed to win.
Heck even Vandy has an 8 win season in the SEC. Ped St, the only coach/team/program with more of an albatross on them than us, somehow manages to stay focused for a respectable season. Washington, for crying out loud snuck into the top 25 this year. How is that? They were further down the hole than we were. Do they have better recruits? Better coaches? Players that care more about playing college ball instead of checking draft status? Do they have dominant interior DL? Or OL?

As usual we're at that point on the calendar when the excuse makers roll out the littany of the why's, when, and what if's. Not interested. The admin is wholly comfortable with performances like this year and last. Keep the players out of trouble and keep the academic rankings steady and all is well. A perfect example would be to see if Shalala calls for O'NoDbeingplayedoutthereonceagain's head. Any coach, AD, or President that accepts as pathetic season long performance as we suffered under this DC , shows me how inept they all are. We were as awful against Duke as we were against BC. Not one single element of the defense improved over the course of the season.

We have spent how many years tyring to get back from the Coker era. We are about to enter into depths that will take another decade to recover from. One or two DT's will be the least of our worries over the next few years.


This is delusional. Do you really think our defensive talent this year was even in the same stratosphere as Stanford or ND? I question whether anyone on our def line would get any playing time on either of those teams, much less start.

Denzel is probably the only player on our defense that would start on those teams, and he was hobbled or out for 1/2 the season.

Ok, what about Washington, Vandy or Ped St? Do those teams have All Americans across the board on D?
 
They had one drive late in the game where they ran the ball 5 straight times and moved it like 70 yards. Our lines are not in the same atmosphere when it comes to physicality as the top teams. UF and ND were the two that stood out yesterday when comparing them to us. On both sides of the football, their lines dominate. We are laughably behind them in that regard.

Excellent points. You really have to give credit to Brian Kelly and Will Muschamp. I've been watching the relevant numbers all year. Notre Dame has jumped all the way up to 40.5 rushes per game, from below 33 and 32 in Kelly's first two seasons, and Muschamp has Florida at 42.

For reference purposes, we're at 30. That's all the difference in legitimately being able to compete at the line of scrimmage late in games, or being stuffed like USC at the goal line last night. USC somehow became preseason #1 despite ranking 98th in rushes per game in 2011. That's sheer ignorance, by the voters and public opinion.

I've followed that rushing attempt category for more than 25 years. Only two teams have made BCS bowls while ranking at the extreme bottom of the rushing attempt category -- Hawaii in 2007 and Cincinnati in 2009. I salivated to bet against both of them. And those games were among the most lopsided first half destructions in major bowl history, with Georgia and Florida trying not to laugh. If Mike Leach and Texas Tech had made it to a BCS bowl in 2008 they would have suffered a similar mangling. Instead, Mississippi routed Texas Tech in the Cotton Bowl as an underdog.

I'm very surprised Kelly is running the ball so often at Notre Dame. His Cincinnati teams won despite low rushes and more often than not a coach will be arrogant enough to transfer the same approach regardless of results. Early in his Notre Dame tenure the rushes were very low, and Notre Dame often suffered in the trenches, like when Navy embarrassed them. As other have pointed out, his interior defensive personnel is outstanding. It enables the more physical approach on both sides of the ball.

In Florida's case, they've been one of the more underrated teams in recent memory. Basic blue collar excellence. After watching how they took apart Texas A&M on the road in the second half it was surreal they were underdogs at pantyhose Tennessee. The +7 yesterday at FSU was absurd. I guess fans actually believe the nonsense that simply because a low scoring team doesn't rout undermanned foes they will get torn up by top opponents. Reminds me of 2002 Ohio State.

Muschamp will probably run the ball less often once the skill position players catch up. But he made a brilliant choice this year.

As always, Larry and Lu took care of many of the valid points. I wanted to specify the rush attempt numbers.
 
I was thinking something similar, but more in general terms than specifics. ND has returned to relevance once again. Stanford has been a 4 year consistent top 20 team. Both schools have to field students and not thugs and they have managed to win.
Heck even Vandy has an 8 win season in the SEC. Ped St, the only coach/team/program with more of an albatross on them than us, somehow manages to stay focused for a respectable season. Washington, for crying out loud snuck into the top 25 this year. How is that? They were further down the hole than we were. Do they have better recruits? Better coaches? Players that care more about playing college ball instead of checking draft status? Do they have dominant interior DL? Or OL?

As usual we're at that point on the calendar when the excuse makers roll out the littany of the why's, when, and what if's. Not interested. The admin is wholly comfortable with performances like this year and last. Keep the players out of trouble and keep the academic rankings steady and all is well. A perfect example would be to see if Shalala calls for O'NoDbeingplayedoutthereonceagain's head. Any coach, AD, or President that accepts as pathetic season long performance as we suffered under this DC , shows me how inept they all are. We were as awful against Duke as we were against BC. Not one single element of the defense improved over the course of the season.

We have spent how many years tyring to get back from the Coker era. We are about to enter into depths that will take another decade to recover from. One or two DT's will be the least of our worries over the next few years.


This is delusional. Do you really think our defensive talent this year was even in the same stratosphere as Stanford or ND? I question whether anyone on our def line would get any playing time on either of those teams, much less start.

Denzel is probably the only player on our defense that would start on those teams, and he was hobbled or out for 1/2 the season.

Ok, what about Washington, Vandy or Ped St? Do those teams have All Americans across the board on D?

Washington lost to Wazzu to finish 7-5. Vandy's 3 out of conference wins were against Wake Forest, PRESBYTERIAN, and UMass. Penn State lost to Virginia by 1(sound familiar) then beat Temple and Navy. I got a feeling if we replace K-State and Notre Dame with some combination of UMass, Presbyterian, Temple, Navy or Washington's OOC of San Diego State and Portland State we would get to 9 wins. Credit to Washington. They did play LSU.
 
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sarkisian also just finished his 4th year as HC. please don't invoke UW.

i don't think we can compare Notra Dame/Kelly and our situation. we have far fewer rapes and we don't kill our film staff.
 
Vinn's gone Grassy on us, lol. Yes, Coach D needs to get more creative. But the sky is not falling, we'll get it right... ND teaches me that it's all about interior defense (DTs and MLB). Nix was committed to the U for almost a year before being reeled away in the final weeks from our weak-**** former staff. We would be 9-3 with Nix in the interior this year. He is Wilfork Jr.
 
As Miami's Defense grows up our offense will get better right along with them. Kind of hard for the O-line to learn how to dominate quality opponents when you can't duplicate what you'll be playing against in practice. The defense was a JV squad this year. Expect a huge jump out of the entire defense next season.
 
Their interior DLine sets the foundation for the entire team. We're at least 2 years away from any kind of sustained dominance in that area.

Agree, we should see some big time improvement next year. Sucks to see Louis Nix anchoring the middle of their DL knowing he was committed to us for a while.
 
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Their interior DLine sets the foundation for the entire team. We're at least 2 years away from any kind of sustained dominance in that area.

This. We are nowhere near where we need to be on the defensive line. Guys like McCord, Hamilton, Rico Williams, Ivery, Moore have a big time offseason in front of them.

Notre Dame did it by their third year and have a defensive line whose best players are a true sophomore and true junior and the two deep on defense has like 16 "Brian Kelly Guys" aka, guys he recruited (true juniors, true sophomores, and freshmenz).

So do you think Porter, Pierre and Robinson will be sufficient to reach that status?

Nope.

But that is kind of besides the point...Brian Kelly recruited the right guys to make that kind of a jump early on...Golden hasn't done that yet. Just a general statement that timelines don't always need to be a "process".

IF Golden doesn't have the guys yet, he only has himself to blame, is what I am saying. To be fair, as I've said before, Miami's '13 class could be very similar to Notre Dame's '11 class defensively that is the catalyst to their undefeated season. I think that kind of talent is coming in this class, should the key players stick with or come aboard (Bryant, Bostwick, Thomas, Grace, Burns, Carter). It is why I've constantly pointed to 2014 as the year...that is how important the 2013 class is.
 
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I take away that our o-line and d-line play has not been up to par the last 7-8 years and their line-play was built to perfection within 3 years. In other words we haven´t won in the trenches in a long long time.
 
notre dame sucks right now compared to how good were gonna be, 10-3 at half with a young team nough said
 
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Their interior DLine sets the foundation for the entire team. We're at least 2 years away from any kind of sustained dominance in that area.

My thoughts as well.


Does your opinion about needing two years change if Porter comes back and we get 1-2 JUCO's?

As I said in the other thread, if Porter stays, I think we take a leap next year. I think we take another leap the following year. "Sustained dominance" is a high bar, though. It'd have to be a special JuCo player to get anywhere near that next year, I think.

I don't want to overdo it, but I think Pierre is an NFL player. I think he and Mccord (if he hits the roids/weights) are the most likely to change our defensive expectations.

Is the thinking that he WON'T come back? Has he done enough to reasonably consider going pro? All I've seen is a guy that is talented but hasn't been able to stay on the field for long.
 
Their interior DLine sets the foundation for the entire team. We're at least 2 years away from any kind of sustained dominance in that area.

My thoughts as well.


Does your opinion about needing two years change if Porter comes back and we get 1-2 JUCO's?

As I said in the other thread, if Porter stays, I think we take a leap next year. I think we take another leap the following year. "Sustained dominance" is a high bar, though. It'd have to be a special JuCo player to get anywhere near that next year, I think.

I don't want to overdo it, but I think Pierre is an NFL player. I think he and Mccord (if he hits the roids/weights) are the most likely to change our defensive expectations.

Is the thinking that he WON'T come back? Has he done enough to reasonably consider going pro? All I've seen is a guy that is talented but hasn't been able to stay on the field for long.

There's some concern he may simply opt to take his chances. If he does, which I think is a mistake for him, we're in trouble (unless we sign some very special JuCo guy or Earl Moore has the offseason of his life).
 
My thoughts as well.


Does your opinion about needing two years change if Porter comes back and we get 1-2 JUCO's?

As I said in the other thread, if Porter stays, I think we take a leap next year. I think we take another leap the following year. "Sustained dominance" is a high bar, though. It'd have to be a special JuCo player to get anywhere near that next year, I think.

I don't want to overdo it, but I think Pierre is an NFL player. I think he and Mccord (if he hits the roids/weights) are the most likely to change our defensive expectations.

Is the thinking that he WON'T come back? Has he done enough to reasonably consider going pro? All I've seen is a guy that is talented but hasn't been able to stay on the field for long.

There's some concern he may simply opt to take his chances. If he does, which I think is a mistake for him, we're in trouble (unless we sign some very special JuCo guy or Earl Moore has the offseason of his life).

I agree with you, it would be a huge mistake for him to go. You'd think that seeing what happened to our kids last year in the draft would open some the eyes of current players that are toying with the idea of going pro early.
 
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