We are in Vernon Carey's final 4

[Squid Bumciorek]

I'm amazed at how some small schools like Gonzaga go deep in the tournament almost every year, but Miami can't manage to do the same. I know the ACC is tough, but do you really think Gonzaga gets superior basketball players over Miami? I don't think elite recruits are clamoring to go Walla Walla or that the Zags are dropping bags.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Lol at posters thinking Carey can’t be a lottery pick if he comes to Miami over Duke or whom ever.

There is no precedent for it. He is probably looking at Ls track record. He had 3 potential 1 and dones Huell, Brown, Walker. Huell may end up not even making the NBA. Brown may have to wait till Junior year and Lonnie may drop out of a lottery pick. I hope he comes here of course, but that is probably his logic. Before anyone starts talking about Huell, there was a ton of talk about Huell being a 1 and done in HS.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

I'm amazed at how some small schools like Gonzaga go deep in the tournament almost every year, but Miami can't manage to do the same. I know the ACC is tough, but do you really think Gonzaga gets superior basketball players over Miami? I don't think elite recruits are clamoring to go Walla Walla or that the Zags are dropping bags.

This is why I laugh when Canes fans are content with making the tournament every other year.

 

[Consigliere]

This is why I laugh when Canes fans are content with making the tournament every other year.

That isn't what happen though. If we make it this year, that would be 3 years straight. That isn't every other year.

Forget about us...

How many teams in the ACC made the tourney the last 3 years?

How many teams in the country made the tourney the last 3 years?

---------------

I don't think, for the most part, people are "content". I think they see a coach who is doing things that we hardly do. I don't think anyone is seriously calling for his head.

I do think that he clearly has lifted the bar (for expectations) and created higher expectations for a school with no real history or standards.

 

[Consigliere]

I'm amazed at how some small schools like Gonzaga go deep in the tournament almost every year, but Miami can't manage to do the same. I know the ACC is tough, but do you really think Gonzaga gets superior basketball players over Miami? I don't think elite recruits are clamoring to go Walla Walla or that the Zags are dropping bags.

Mark Few has coached at Gonzaga For 18 years (before this season). This is just a frame of reference for the numbers below.

A few things:

1. Deep in the tourney almost every year? I don't know what you quantify as deep but Gonzaga has made it to the Elite Eight (or further) 2 out of 18 years. Yes, 2 out of 18. And Mark Few didn't make the Elite Eight until year 16. This is just factually incorrect.

2. Do you know anything about the West Coast Conference? Gonzaga has won the WCC regular season 16/18 times. Gonzaga has won the WCC Championship 14/18 times.

The only other teams of relevance, in that conference, are Saint Marys and BYU. In the last 5 years (2012-13), they each made the tourney 2 times.

3. I don't understand the correlation between Gonzaga and us. Because Gonzaga had success, we should have success.

4. With everything said, Mark Few is a great coach and built that program.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

That isn't what happen though. If we make it this year, that would be 3 years straight.

How many teams in the ACC made the tourney the last 3 years?

How many teams in the country made the tourney the last 3 years?

Over the past 6 years we have made the tourney 3 times. So we are on pace for 1 every 2 years. 34 teams currently have 2 year NCAAT streaks. There are 5 ACC teams with streaks of 2 NCAAT or longer. I don't really see your point. Yes, that puts us right outside the to 10% of the league, but Miami is not some scrub school in the middle of nowhere. We are a top 50 school academically, one of the nicest campuses in the country, top 3 nicest college city(if not the best), and a decent amount of funds. All else equal if you took all of the 5 stars in the nation I guarantee 95% would choose to live in Miami or LA over any other college town.

 

[Consigliere]

Over the past 6 years we have made the tourney 3 times. So we are on pace for 1 every 2 years. 34 teams currently have 2 year NCAAT streaks. There are 5 ACC teams with streaks of 2 NCAAT or longer.

You're not answering my questions. I asked you two simple questions.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

You're not answering my questions. I asked you two simple questions.

Because we haven't even made the tournament this year yet. The ACC numbers don't change it will still be 5. Overall it drops to 25, but of those 9 teams 6 have as good a chance(if not better) to make the tournament as Miami. Active NCAAT streaks isnt a good indicator of success though. Lousville and Syrause are both very succesul teams, but dont have the 3 year streak beacause they had 1 down year recently.

 

[Consigliere]

Because we haven't even made the tournament this year yet. The ACC numbers don't change it will still be 5. Overall it drops to 25, but of those 9 teams 6 have as good a chance(if not better) to make the tournament as Miami.

It clearly says (FORGET ABOUT US). Did you see that?

Active NCAAT streaks isnt a good indicator of success though. Lousville and Syrause are both very succesul teams, but dont have the 3 year streak beacause they had 1 down year recently.

Of course it isn't a good indicator of success because it weakens your argument. There are many goals and making the NCAAT consistently is one and a difficult one. This is for many schools. Not for every school, some schools expect a lot more (e.g. Duke) and some schools couldn't come close to making it 3 years straight (let alone once every three years).

It doesn't mean that this should be the end all for us, it just means that we're doing things few teams do.

Again, I am not saying this is enough for me. It isn't. I want more.

With that said, I am saying that these are actual accomplishments and something we "normally" don't do. And not that it matters, if you make it the last 3 years, you made it the last 3 years. It means that currently you're NOT making the tourney every other year, you're doing it consistently.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

It clearly says (FORGET ABOUT US). Did you see that?



Of course it isn't a good indicator of success because it weakens your argument. There are many goals and making the NCAAT consistently is one and a difficult one. This is for many schools. It doesn't mean that this should be the end all for us, it just means that we're doing things few teams do.

I still want to go further and if

No because you edited it after I quoted it. Do you expect me to reread your intial post in hopes that you would have edited it? After reading your edit I agree. I am not calling for Ls head and I am happy that he has raised the bar. That doesn't mean we should be happy with our current success we still have much room to improve. If we where a mid major school or a smaller p6 I would be content. No, it doesn't weaken my argument. Louisville made the tournament 9 years in a row missed it one year and then made it again. So is Miami more succesfull because we can currently claim 2 tournaments in a row compared to their 1? I think a good indicator of current success is number of tournaments made over the past 10-15 years. Since L has only been here for 6 I would be willing to cut it down to 6 for arguments sake. With that said we are still in the bottom half of the ACC in tournament appearances over the past 6 years out of the ACC teams.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

Mark Few has coached at Gonzaga For 18 years (before this season). This is just a frame of reference for the numbers below.

A few things:

1. Deep in the tourney almost every year? I don't know what you quantify as deep but Gonzaga has made it to the Elite Eight (or further) 2 out of 18 years. Yes, 2 out of 18. And Mark Few didn't make the Elite Eight until year 16. This is just factually incorrect.

2. Do you know anything about the West Coast Conference? Gonzaga has won the WCC regular season 16/18 times. Gonzaga has won the WCC Championship 14/18 times.

The only other teams of relevance, in that conference, are Saint Marys and BYU. In the last 5 years (2012-13), they each made the tourney 2 times.

3. I don't understand the correlation between Gonzaga and us. Because Gonzaga had success, we should have success.

4. With everything said, Mark Few is a great coach and built that program.

If I'm not mistaken they have made the tournament for 18 consecutive years and have won at least one game in 16 of those 18 years. We are on the bubble (again). Maybe it's an unreasonable expectation but I feel Miami should be at least good enough to be a lock for the Big Dance every year.

 

[Consigliere]

If you want to have an actual conversation, cut the bullchit with the hyperbole. Stick to what is actually said.

Louisville made the tournament 9 years in a row missed it one year and then made it again. So is Miami more succesfull because we can currently claim 2 tournaments in a row compared to their 1?

The point of the 3 NCAATs clearly went over your head. The reason I brought it up was because it is considered success to make it 3 straight years. Not success for Duke or other similar programs (e.g. UNC), which I already said and was clear. But it is success for us and most of the country. Again, this doesn't mean this is enough or the ceiling, it just is considered success.

Nobody thinks we're better than UL. Do I really need to say this? UL had one of the best coaches in the country. UL is a great program. We're not on their level at all. Why even bring this up? We're not a blue blood.

I think a good indicator of current success is number of tournaments made over the past 10-15 years. Since L has only been here for 6 I would be willing to cut it down to 6 for arguments sake. With that said we are still in the bottom half of the ACC in tournament appearances over the past 6 years out of the ACC teams.

I am glad you don't count the last 10-15 years against Coach L. Why 6 years? What is the relevance of a season 3-6 years ago. Don't things change. Does anyone still think of 2012-13 UVA when they judge Tony Bennett today?

Pitt, 6 years ago, was making the tourney. Now they don't and have a different coach.

So to review. If we make the NCAAT this year...I am saying that these are actual accomplishments and something we "normally" don't do. And not that it matters, if you make it the last 3 years, you made it the last 3 years. It means that currently you're NOT making the tourney every other year, you're doing it consistently.

 

[Consigliere]

If I'm not mistaken they have made the tournament for 18 consecutive years and have won at least one game in 16 of those 18 years. We are on the bubble (again). Maybe it's an unreasonable expectation but I feel Miami should be at least good enough to be a lock for the Big Dance every year.

You missed the majority of the post.

1. We're not on the bubble. Being on the bubble is one of the last 4 in/out/bye etc. As of this moment...We're not on the bubble. In addition, we control our destiny.

2. If we make it this year, that will be 3 straight years. Under your standard, that is an accomplishment.

3. What is the relevance between us and Gonzaga? Besides nothing.

 

[hotshot]

Gonzaga's talent in most years has been slightly superior to UM's. Where they have really out-recruited us (and most other major programs) is in their frontcourt -- with quality Euros, Aussies, Canadians, etc.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

If you want to have an actual conversation, cut the bullchit with the hyperbole. Stick to what is actually said.



The point of the 3 NCAATs clearly went over your head. The reason I brought it up was because it is considered success to make it 3 straight years. Not success for Duke or other similar programs (e.g. UNC), which I already said and was clear. But it is success for us and most of the country. Again, this doesn't mean this is enough or the ceiling, it just is considered success.

Nobody thinks we're better than UL. Do I really need to say this? UL had one of the best coaches in the country. UL is a great program. We're not on their level at all. Why even bring this up? We're not a blue blood.



I am glad you don't count the last 10-15 years against Coach L. Why 6 years? What is the relevance of a season 3-6 years ago. Don't things change. Does anyone still think of 2012-13 UVA when they judge Tony Bennett today?

Pitt, 6 years ago, was making the tourney. Now they don't and have a different coach.

So to review. If we make the NCAAT this year...I am saying that these are actual accomplishments and something we "normally" don't do. And not that it matters, if you make it the last 3 years, you made it the last 3 years. It means that currently you're NOT making the tourney every other year, you're doing it consistently.

I haven't used hyperbole once in our conversation. My point is that how many NCAAT bids you get over a certain time period is more important than how many you received in a row. I brought UL up beacuse it proves my point. We have a current streak of 2 NCAAT appearances, they have 1. So using the streak logic that must mean we are better. Why 6 years? Because thats how long he has been here this will be his 7th season and its not over yet so I am leaving it off. You are correct over the course of the past 2 years we have made the tournament each year(potentially we will make it 3 in a row). Am I happier with our team now then ten years ago? Yes, but am I content? No.

 

[Consigliere]

I haven't used hyperbole once in our conversation.

By bringing up UL and comparing them to Miami. That is a joke.

My point is that how many NCAAT bids you get over a certain time period is more important than how many you received in a row. I brought UL up beacuse it proves my point. We have a current streak of 2 NCAAT appearances, they have 1. So using the streak logic that must mean we are better.

I never said it was the most important metric. I only said it was a metric to determine recent success. I thought it was obvious that UL was better and Pitino was/is a beast.

Why 6 years? Because thats how long he has been here this will be his 7th season and its not over yet so I am leaving it off. You are correct over the course of the past 2 years we have made the tournament each year(potentially we will make it 3 in a row). Am I happier with our team now then ten years ago? Yes, but am I content? No.

But again, who cares what happened then? At what point does that part become irrelevant (3-6 years ago)?

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

By bringing up UL and comparing them to Miami. That is a joke.



I never said it was the most important metric. I only said it was a metric to determine recent success. I thought it was obvious that UL was better and Pitino was/is a beast.




But again, who cares what happened then? At what point does that part become irrelevant (3-6 years ago)?

You asked how many ACC teams have a current streak of 3 NCAAT appearances. I brought up the fact that Syracuse and UL both have a shorter streak, but are clearly the better programs which throws a wrench in your theory. It seemed like you where insinuating that was the most important metric. We agree now that you clarified. I care because it paints the picture of the programs success. You can't just shrink the window to prove your point. Maybe an example would better illustrate my point. Lets imagine you were a George Mason fan in the year 2007 and we had this discussion. I could say we made it to the final 4 last year, but haven't made it to the tournament for 4 years prior to that. You then come along and say who cares about a 5 year time period. How many teams made it to the final 4 last year? How many in the A10? Who cares what happened then? Clearly GWU is one of the 4 elite programs in the nation. The only reason I am willing to cut the time period down to 6 years is because that's how long L was here for and Frank Haith was a scrub so I won't drag his teams records into this discussion.

 

[Consigliere]

You asked how many ACC teams have a current streak of 3 NCAAT appearances. I brought up the fact that Syracuse and UL both have a shorter streak, but are clearly the better programs which throws a wrench in your theory. It seemed like you where insinuating that was the most important metric. We agree now that you clarified. I care because it paints the picture of the programs success. You can't just shrink the window to prove your point. Maybe an example would better illustrate my point. Lets imagine you were a George Mason fan in the year 2007 and we had this discussion. I could say we made it to the final 4 last year, but haven't made it to the tournament for 4 years prior to that. You then come along and say who cares about a 5 year time period. How many teams made it to the final 4 last year? How many in the A10? Who cares what happened then? Clearly GWU is one of the 4 elite programs in the nation. The only reason I am willing to cut the time period down to 6 years is because that's how long L was here for and Frank Haith was a scrub so I won't drag his teams records into this discussion.

We’re not arguing the same thing and your examples and logic are bad, no disrespect. This is a big waste of time, so agree to disagree.

Also, not sure how GWU (George Washington) got thrown in.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

We’re not arguing the same thing and your examples and logic are bad, no disrespect. This is a big waste of time, so agree to disagree.

Also, not sure how GWU (George Washington) got thrown in.

None taken. I was just using them as an example to prove that you cant judge a team off 1-2 years. You need to look at the bigger picture. But yes we really arent arguing anything I just expect more out of a power 5 team with tons of advantages to do better then staggering into the tournament.

 

[Consigliere]

Everyone besides us is named (Schools Carey are considering).

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...n-reveals-basketball-powers-broken-ncaa-rules