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Transfer Portal watch

chipcane said:
So I find myself AGAIN in the unenviable position of defending the Semenholes. Firstly, the blowback from my standpoint is with those 1000% certain that we have the strategy for success, while also 1000% certain that they don't. The argument rings hollow when those who said they sucked a year ago are now assuring us their 'formula' isn't sustainable. Ok, so a borderline top 10 program with a marketable brand can't begin to sell itself? How 'bout simply giving credit where credit's due. Tell ya what, if I go out to the woodshed with a guy and get bludgeoned, then watch him add to his ****nal - think I'll just keep my mouth shut. When we meet again and he bloodies my nose, I sure as **** won't be spouting on about his 'methods' not being sustainable.
Now I was absolutely thrilled when Cristobal was hired. Today..tempered expectations. Even his stellar class has holes (wr, DT, qb (?)). Hard to believe Gattis's status is still up in the air. Is the offensive philosophy dated? How's his history with qb's? I understand we've only finished year 1, but there aren't any guarantees of success, at least in my estimation.
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Ok you so like what they have donethar. Could just leave it at that.
Your position is not "Unenviable". Nobody asked you to write essays defending the virtue of the semenhole program. That's on you.
Yes they are having success in year three. They failed a lot in years one and two. We shall see what year four brings.
By the same logic...we had a lot of failure I year one...we shall see what years two and three bring.
 
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Torocane said:
Ok we can agree not to dismiss their strategy but ALSO acknowledge they are in year three AND THAT there was a lot of coaching failure in their first two years.
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Exactly. Where was the Great Portal Strategy in his first few years at F$U?

The fact remains, there were a few schools that went HARDCORE to the Portal last year, particularly with Quantity (including USC). There was a lot of uncertaintly last year on the suspension of the IC rules (which happened late) and some more this year (the Portal official visits having to be commingled with HS official visits).

But now that more colleges are devoting more resources to scouting and signing Portal kids, why does anyone think that Kiffin and Norvell and Riley will maintain some sort of dominant position in this regard? Maybe they can, but maybe they won't.

I give Ole Miss and F$U and USC credit for being early innovators, but I'm not giving them the Top 3 Portal classes every year by virtue of that early success. Now that there is a lot more acceptance of the Portal and competition for commits, the "success stories" will be spread more thin. When you sign 14 (F$U) or 17 (Ole Miss) or 20 (USC) from the Portal, it is easier to hit "success" in spite of whatever misses you have. And the REASON that those schools had so many slots was because of PAST FAILURES.

Soooo...it becomes a bit of an ouroboros. If the best Portal classes tend to be the biggest...yet you need a lot of available slots to get a big transfer class (at least for now, when the IC slots are suspended)...then you either need a lot of "failure" in your other areas of recruiting...or you need a lot of "success" with the Portal transfers, in that they move on to the NFL draft.

Either way, it's not like you are signing all your HS kids for 5 years and all your Portal kids for 4 years. There is some level of one-and-done that may not result in an equal level of Portal success each year, particularly when there is not nearly the same time frame to scout, build relationships, and recruit kids out of the Portal as there is with HS kids.

So, yeah, plenty of valid questions as to whether what Norvell does is going to be repeatable on an annual basis. Which, of course, has NOTHING to do with what Mario is doing specifically, it has everything to do with the general concept of trying to build ANY kind of a team with continuity and sustainability.
 
Angry Ibis said:
Very fair. We can be clearly not everyone can based on the rant above 👆🏼… I don’t think we are that far off in our thinking here. (I’m concerned about lack of adapting on our end on multiple fronts.)
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You have said (I belive it was you) that there are different ways to build this thing. I agree with that. We are doing better than they are in HS recruiting and they are doing better in portal. I agree we need both and we shall see were we are overall when the portal closes. We do have more high end HS recruits that are hopefully a foundation for the future.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Exactly. Where was the Great Portal Strategy in his first few years at F$U?

The fact remains, there were a few schools that went HARDCORE to the Portal last year, particularly with Quantity (including USC). There was a lot of uncertaintly last year on the suspension of the IC rules (which happened late) and some more this year (the Portal official visits having to be commingled with HS official visits).

But now that more colleges are devoting more resources to scouting and signing Portal kids, why does anyone think that Kiffin and Norvell and Riley will maintain some sort of dominant position in this regard? Maybe they can, but maybe they won't.

I give Ole Miss and F$U and USC credit for being early innovators, but I'm not giving them the Top 3 Portal classes every year by virtue of that early success. Now that there is a lot more acceptance of the Portal and competition for commits, the "success stories" will be spread more thin. When you sign 14 (F$U) or 17 (Ole Miss) or 20 (USC) from the Portal, it is easier to hit "success" in spite of whatever misses you have. And the REASON that those schools had so many slots was because of PAST FAILURES.

Soooo...it becomes a bit of an ouroboros. If the best Portal classes tend to be the biggest...yet you need a lot of available slots to get a big transfer class (at least for now, when the IC slots are suspended)...then you either need a lot of "failure" in your other areas of recruiting...or you need a lot of "success" with the Portal transfers, in that they move on to the NFL draft.

Either way, it's not like you are signing all your HS kids for 5 years and all your Portal kids for 4 years. There is some level of one-and-done that may not result in an equal level of Portal success each year, particularly when there is not nearly the same time frame to scout, build relationships, and recruit kids out of the Portal as there is with HS kids.

So, yeah, plenty of valid questions as to whether what Norvell does is going to be repeatable on an annual basis. Which, of course, has NOTHING to do with what Mario is doing specifically, it has everything to do with the general concept of trying to build ANY kind of a team with continuity and sustainability.
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To be fair, last year was the first year of the portal as we know it. The rules were set before that but last year was the first year where there were massive amounts of players entering. I still believe that HS recruiting is the better way to build a program though, my statement is stand alone only.
 
I don’t give a **** about FSU. Fact is Miami has to do well recruiting high school, juco, AND portal. It’s not either/or.

As long as there is no counter rule, there is no downside to flipping the roster with portal kids. You want your roster to have a certain balance of upper classmen and freshman.

Once the 25 counter rule is back then portal becomes unsustainable because you’re burning counters on kids who only have one or two years. BUT that’s not a concern at the moment.

So Miami should be hitting the portal hard IMO and getting impact starter types
 
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lauderdaleballer said:
No one is a “closet state fan” whatever that means. We won 7 games last year and the majority of fans on this board was predicting 10+ wins. FSU lacks talent but Norvell has done a good job developing that talent. Outside of Verse, even his portal players were burnouts at their previous schools but he did a good job developing and putting them in position to win. I don’t know about a national title; you still need talented players. However, they should be able win 10+ games again. Even the games they lost it was close despite falling behind.

As for sustainability, how can anyone say it’s not sustainable? This is the first time we experience anything like this. Hiesman winners and All-Americans are hitting the portal. More coaches are saying they prefer to go Portal than high school. This isn’t even like juco transfers. It’s a new strategy of recruiting.
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You know what it means you like fsu. We did that not knowing we’d have so many major injuries to key players too and our qb not being comfortable in a new system and getting hurt. Who cares what he’s doing with his players he should they had no other choice it was get better or get fired he’s in year 3 he’s seen most of these opponents before or that doesn’t count. Also most of those kids we’re literally on there last chance to play so of course they bought in we had issues with injuries and buying in this year to a documented tougher regime then mannys.

I never said it wasn’t sustainable idc personally about fsu being good I want to be good again and I like our chances of beating them if we’re how we should be. Mikes a good offensive mind but he’s not unbeatable.


This portal thing’s definitely sustainable because kids will always be looking to leave for whatever reason it’s better than juco actually. It’s a great system I have no issue with it I hope we grab 10-15 players from it that can help us take a major jump this year. But I also feel like you need to recruit high school players well too because that’s how you build depth and build your culture properly in my opinion.
 
Angry Ibis said:
Nice rant. A decision to put NIL resources into keeping current players from leaving and hitting the portal vs allotting more toward high school in an attempt to make a 2023 run is indeed a strategic decision aka a strategy.

That strategy is a build on 2022 for 2023 with the hopes it wins big and carries into 2024. It may fail wonderfully, but we don’t know that yet. I don’t care if they gamble and have 1 year or two year or 6 year guys. The plan is their plan. **** em if it fails. **** FSU either way.
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Now you're just making cr@pp up.

"putting NIL resources into keeping current players from leaving and hitting the portal"? That's simply the definition of NIL. That's the entire game.

As I have clearly pointed out, F$U took 14 Portal guys last year. One of those is already moving on (Malik Feaster). Three of those guys never really played in 2022 (Bless Harris played one game before season-ending injury, two other guys missed the whole year).

So then you get down to the 10 out of the 14 who were able to do something. And OF THAT, yes, F$U had an unbelievable hit rate of 6 guys that did something impressive in the stats (Benson, Verse, Bethune, Vance, Wilson, and Pittman). And of those 6, there are four who are coming back next year (RB Benson, DL Bethune, DB Vance, and WR Pittman). DL Verse and WR Wilson are gone, as is OT Turnetine who was injured in the bowl game.

And before I even move on, I'm going to continue to point out that we have no fvkking clue as to whether Norvell will ever produce that level of Portal success again, as more universities and more coaches decide to recruit Portal guys.

Again, that is not a knock on those four returning F$U Portal players. Bethune and Benson seem to be the primary guys who had a decisions to make on turning pro.

But if your entire argument is that F$U's NIL program has managed to keep TWO PORTAL GUYS from going to the NFL, and that this was a better use of money than HS recruiting, and that this puts F$U in the running for a national championship next year...

Well, I think this is the point where I just start laughing.

You can invent whatever nonsense you choose to. About how F$U is "running it back" (exactly TWO transfer guys decided to "run it back").

The fact remains, for the ACQUISITION of Portal players to be a strategy, there has to be some sort of more-than-one-year proof of concept, a more-than-one-year replication of success. I fully agree that Kiffin and Norvell and Riley took advantage of the sudden opportunity afforded last year by the temporary suspension of the IC rules, and good for them.

But "retaining your own players" is not something unique to F$U or Norvell. It's not a strategy. It's literally what every coach in college football is trying to do.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Now you're just making **** up.

"putting NIL resources into keeping current players from leaving and hitting the portal"? That's simply the definition of NIL. That's the entire game.

As I have clearly pointed out, F$U took 14 Portal guys last year. One of those is already moving on (Malik Feaster). Three of those guys never really played in 2022 (Bless Harris played one game before season-ending injury, two other guys missed the whole year).

So then you get down to the 10 out of the 14 who were able to do something. And OF THAT, yes, F$U had an unbelievable hit rate of 6 guys that did something impressive in the stats (Benson, Verse, Bethune, Vance, Wilson, and Pittman). And of those 6, there are four who are coming back next year (RB Benson, DL Bethune, DB Vance, and WR Pittman). DL Verse and WR Wilson are gone, as is OT Turnetine who was injured in the bowl game.

And before I even move on, I'm going to continue to point out that we have no ******* clue as to whether Norvell will ever produce that level of Portal success again, as more universities and more coaches decide to recruit Portal guys.

Again, that is not a knock on those four returning F$U Portal players. Bethune and Benson seem to be the primary guys who had a decisions to make on turning pro.

But if your entire argument is that F$U's NIL program has managed to keep TWO PORTAL GUYS from going to the NFL, and that this was a better use of money than HS recruiting, and that this puts F$U in the running for a national championship next year...

Well, I think this is the point where I just start laughing.

You can invent whatever nonsense you choose to. About how F$U is "running it back" (exactly TWO transfer guys decided to "run it back").

The fact remains, for the ACQUISITION of Portal players to be a strategy, there has to be some sort of more-than-one-year proof of concept, a more-than-one-year replication of success. I fully agree that Kiffin and Norvell and Riley took advantage of the sudden opportunity afforded last year by the temporary suspension of the IC rules, and good for them.

But "retaining your own players" is not something unique to F$U or Norvell. It's not a strategy. It's literally what every coach in college football is trying to do.
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I’m not making anything up or reading your overly emotional rant. I’m literally repeating what I’ve heard from FSU fans on what their boards are saying about what Norvell’s off-season plan appears to be: You have X total NIL dollars, instead of paying heavily for high school players, he’s splitting it up more to work to keep current players and get new players via the portal.

It is not difficult to understand, unless of course you are blinded.
 
bobbydigius said:
To be fair, last year was the first year of the portal as we know it. The rules were set before that but last year was the first year where there were massive amounts of players entering. I still believe that HS recruiting is the better way to build a program though, my statement is stand alone only.
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This is somewhat fair. It was the first year of UNLIMITED Portal signings, and we might only have that IC rule suspension for a couple of years. That's why I'm saying that this is not a strategy, per se. It is a reaction based on a temporary opportunity.

The reality is that there was more limited use of Portal in prior years. Which, of course, was balanced, because there were not as many players GOING INTO the Portal, and there were not as many being SIGNED BY various universities.

I think there is going to be an interesting future, where Portal players will fall into one of a few categories...

1. Guys with a LOT of time left - they may have hated School 1, but they also weren't there long enough to qualify as a "bust" in the eyes of the fanbases.
2. Guys with 2-3 years left, but who have a story - might involve injury or coaching change or something more tricky, but there is more of a risk here, plus you might not be able to keep guys the full time if they have a breakout year.
3. Grad transfers with decent careers, but who need one great year for potential NFL draft purposes - a new version of the "one-and-done", can help out a lot, but can't be counted on for continuity.
4. Guys looking to upgrade the talent level - guys moving up from I-AA or G5 programs who could be Tommy Kennedy or who could be something far greater.

I think you are almost going to have to build out your "Portal" scouting unit to focus on these different archetypes, I think it's crazy to just load up on one type to the exclusion of others.
 
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Angry Ibis said:
I’m not making anything up or reading your overly emotional rant. I’m literally repeating what I’ve heard from FSU fans on what their boards are saying about what Norvell’s off-season plan appears to be: You have X total NIL dollars, instead of paying Rashada $11M he’s splitting it up to work to keep players and get new players via the portal.

It is not difficult to understand, unless of course you are blinded.
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Yeeeeahhh, that's what the Gaytor fans were saying about THEIR Gaytor Collective NIL money too, before they got desperate and decided to finally pay Rashada's dad enough "high school money" to get him to flip.

I'm just not a whiny "rival board reader" like you are, where I'm dumb enough to believe the spin job coming out of rival porsters.

Again...for the millionth time...the NIL money is supposed to be separate from the university. It's not Norvell's decision to allocate resources. The job of RETAINING players via NIL is one that every program will encounter.

But, yeah, if you believe this nonsense about "we're not going to try really hard this year to sign high school kids because we need to pay 2 Portal kids to stick around for one more year", well then, that's on you. And I'm sure you've shared your social and bank account numbers with a Nigerian prince who needs to move some money around.

The fact remains, high school recruiting is a multi-year effort. If you honestly believed that HALFWAY THROUGH THE 2022 SEASON, the F$U powers-that-be suddenly realized they were capable of winning more games, and if they could only keep the band together, they'd have a shot for 2023 as well, and at that very instant they decided to give up on recruiting the very best high school players...

OK, I guess you are just gullible then. Because it's easy to make excuses for why you are not getting high school recruits like you once did under prior coaches...

You be you, dude. Keep reading those F$U boards, and keep falling for every banana in a tailpipe...


 
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mlw352 said:
You know what it means you like fsu. We did that not knowing we’d have so many major injuries to key players too and our qb not being comfortable in a new system and getting hurt. Who cares what he’s doing with his players he should they had no other choice it was get better or get fired he’s in year 3 he’s seen most of these opponents before or that doesn’t count. Also most of those kids we’re literally on there last chance to play so of course they bought in we had issues with injuries and buying in this year to a documented tougher regime then mannys.

I never said it wasn’t sustainable idc personally about fsu being good I want to be good again and I like our chances of beating them if we’re how we should be. Mikes a good offensive mind but he’s not unbeatable.


This portal thing’s definitely sustainable because kids will always be looking to leave for whatever reason it’s better than juco actually. It’s a great system I have no issue with it I hope we grab 10-15 players from it that can help us take a major jump this year. But I also feel like you need to recruit high school players well too because that’s how you build depth and build your culture properly in my opinion.
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I think everyone here agrees with everything you said. I know I do. However, saying Norvell did well doesn’t mean I hope he builds a dynasty. However, you’re right about everything else. Especially recruiting but we don’t know about hs recruiting until 3 years from now. I mean our 08 class, UF 2010 class, and fsu 2014 & 2015 classes are example of overrated classes.
 
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bobbydigius said:
Bring me the DT. He isn’t anything exciting but he replaces Miller at least. Will still need at least another good one if not 2 but let’s get some points on the board there.
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Eh, Winners use the portal for impact players. Losers use the portal for depth. That's a real 5-7ish move imo.
 
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