Thoughts?

[supacane]

So basically u have two sets of posters here. The majority love golden and hated Shannon. Minority loved shannon hate golden. Very few love both....that's me. There is no doubt shannon was a failure as a head coach. He had no idea how to be the CEO of a major program like Miami. Golden from what I seen is way better in the regard. There is also no doubt No'D is a bad DC imo. Terrible. In all of Shannon's years here we have never had a defense ranked less than #35 which was his 1st year and we finished 5-7. That team was either as bad as last seasons teams. ....check that they were worst. We had kirby Freeman throwing the ball! U can love Golden but stop pretending u have to extend it to No D because u support Golden. Go back to Shannons 4 years here and show me the so much greater talent he had that he managed to have head and shoulders defenses than No D has produced so far. BTW I lurk here for a while now but he does my head in reading some of these excuses for No D. Please do not mention temple again. He had 2 years here. And also the defense in 2010 was not good. Average at best despite the top 20 scoring D. Could never come up with a stop when we needed it. Thinking about the Thursday night game v UVA for reference

 

[umfire]

I just think people are really overselling the talent on this DL. Without a good DL, it is very very difficult to be even average defensively.

Look at our DL in Shannon's second year (2007):

RE 81 Calais Campbell Jr. 6-8 282
47 Vegas Franklin Sr. 6-3 255

RT 54 Teraz McCray Sr. 6-1 300
92 Josh Holmes RFr. 6-2 270

LT 96 Antonio Dixon Jr. 6-3 335
93 Dwayne Hendricks Jr. 6-4 280

LE 94 Eric Moncur Jr. 6-2 260
49 Courtney Harris Soph. 6-3 260

Calais is a pro-bowl type talent, Antonio Dixon sees meaningful snaps for the Eagles, and McCray and Moncur were 6 sack a year guys by that season.

Now look at our DL from last year (Golden's 2nd year):


DE Shayon Green, Jr.
Kelvin Cain, Jr.

DT Darius Smith, Sr.
Luther Robinson, Jr.

DT Curtis Porter, Jr.
Olsen Pierre, Soph.

DE Anthony Chickillo, Soph.
McCord, Fr.

Chickillo is a solid player but he is a backup on a "good" Miami defense, Porter is made of glass, Shayon Green and Darius Smith are guys. Shayon Green was a starter. Last year. At Miami. After two knee surgeries. We had NO DL talent last year, none.

 

[Consigliere]

Some strong delusion in this thread

From who, be specific Mr. 1 Post.

See how I addressed the person I am talking too.

I have been posting on miami boards for more than half a decade FWIW.

I am referring to the fact that some people are expecting this defense to go from godawful (low 80's in scoring defense I believe) to top 40 in one season. I can't see that happening considering our two biggest flaws, pass rush and interior defense, are going to be only marginally improved. I think it is fair to expect substantial improvement from our D but I don't think a huge improvement is at all likely

Thank you, just curious.

 

[Consigliere]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

 

[Consigliere]

So basically u have two sets of posters here. The majority love golden and hated Shannon. Minority loved shannon hate golden. Very few love both....that's me. There is no doubt shannon was a failure as a head coach. He had no idea how to be the CEO of a major program like Miami. Golden from what I seen is way better in the regard. There is also no doubt No'D is a bad DC imo. Terrible. In all of Shannon's years here we have never had a defense ranked less than #35 which was his 1st year and we finished 5-7. That team was either as bad as last seasons teams. ....check that they were worst. We had kirby Freeman throwing the ball! U can love Golden but stop pretending u have to extend it to No D because u support Golden. Go back to Shannons 4 years here and show me the so much greater talent he had that he managed to have head and shoulders defenses than No D has produced so far. BTW I lurk here for a while now but he does my head in reading some of these excuses for No D. Please do not mention temple again. He had 2 years here. And also the defense in 2010 was not good. Average at best despite the top 20 scoring D. Could never come up with a stop when we needed it. Thinking about the Thursday night game v UVA for reference

Huh?

 

[GhostofVenice01]

This board will implode is FAU hangs 40 on us

 

[Consigliere]

This board will implode is FAU hangs 40 on us

I think everyone in the world will even FAU students.

 

[JHallCanes]

One of the best lines in the article, IMO. I feel like a lot of people on this board have made it clear that they will be happy with any sort of improvement, which isn't all that impressive considering the depths of despair the D is in

If mere improvement over the worst defense in school history is accepted, then what we are doing is rewarding a defensive coordinator for plunging a defense to never-before-seen depths, then marginally improving it. And that is ultimately how Golden’s decision to retain D’Onofrio should be viewed next fall.

In the college game one year can change everything. Yes our offense will probably hurt our defensive stats like it did last year, but last year was so far beyond stats it just became hilarious to use them as part of an argument. A retarded monkey could see how bad we were and it's not going to take much to notice improvements, even if the stats don't necessarily back it up.

I expect across the board improvements by leaps and bounds. Could we be better on the DL, particularly at DT? Of course. But other teams do more with less and there is no excuses with this roster. For being young, it's taken it's lumps and has been through some battles and should be on its way to becoming the best D in the conference in a year or two, talent wise.

 

[Kn[]_[]ckles3o5]

We forced turnovers last season, w/o getting sacks. We gave up chunk plays by making mental mistakes and rarely won the battle at the LOS. Even marginal improvements in pass rushing, ME's, and stalemating up front could lead to large gains in the defensive performance. I would let D'ono get a chance with his seniors before we give him the axe. It's just a shame that Morris won't be here for that. Hopefully we have a reloading offense at this point and QB play will not be a problem if/when D'ono gets the D on track.

 

[Bigtip]

How many points does our defense hold FAU to?

Fau - 3
UF - 18
Savannah st - 0
USf - 6


That would be a good start and IMO indicative of the talent that we have. If those first 4 teams score a total of 40 points then will I be absolutely SOLD that he needs to go.

I supported Shannon. I gave him the fsu-Miami game to show something.. ANYTHING.. At a time where most were already calling for his head. 45-17 happened. That's when I said THAT'S IT.

In this situation, most people are ready to axe donofrio right now. I feel like we are more talented on D then we have been so I give coach D the first 4 games of the year to prove he can 1) hold bad teams to low low scores and 2) hold a "top team" and an sec opponent at that under 20 points. If he can't do this, that shows me he is not a high d1 caliber coach.

I think the over/under on total points allowed through 4 games would be closer to 60 off the top of my head and that wouldnt be too bad considering last year

I just dont see much hope for the D. I wish I did. losing EJ and Terry hurts too

 

[88]

Golden/D'onofrio @ Temple/Scoring Defense
1st year 118th
2nd Year 54th.

Their defense has shown the ability to make a huge leap forward from one year to the next.

Anywhere Golden and/or D'onofrio have been they've been able to get their scoring defense in the top 20, including here. I don't have any doubts whatsoever that that with happen before their 4th year is over here, if not the third. My question is does it have the potential to be a top 5 or 10 defense expected from the U when they are at full steam?

 

[madstork]

Using F/+ for defensive comparison http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus2012

In Shannon's last year the D came in ranked in 12th. 2011 it was 73rd and 2012 came in 88th.


Compare that to other schools in the state and the coaching turnover they experienced
FSU
2009 Pre-Fisher 90th
2010 1st year of Fisher 37th
2011 2nd year 3rd
2012 3rd Year 5th

Florida
2010 Pre-Muschamp 30th
2011 1st year of Muschamp 33rd
2012 2nd year 2nd

For additional comparison I'll throw in UCF's rankings
UCF
2010 34th
2011 53rd
2012 42

 

[Canesfan1899]

This board will implode is FAU hangs 40 on us

If that happen Corch D is fired immediately fowllowing the game, no chance to even see the tape.

 

[PGCountySoulCane]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

I think there is relevance especially when the praise the staff gets is from previous successes. Successes should be used lightly as the competition for Temple was laughable but somehow without winning ANYTHING of substance this staff gets compared in a favorable light to their predecessors. I was a Randy fan, but I'm also a Golden fan. I support whoever is coach at the time, but I do NOT support consistency when results smack you with reality. At some point, what someone did at a previous school that is eons away from the talent of current Miami opponents has to be irrelevant.

Randy bought himself more time with a brief shake up and a decent 3rd year, but 1 decent year in 4 is a bad statistic no matter how you are grading, and who is in charge. AL had his first year of excuses, and now a SECOND. If that D of his doesn't show an improvement we may not even see the 9-4 mark Randy got in year 3.


IMHO

 

[Consigliere]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

I think there is relevance especially when the praise the staff gets is from previous successes. Successes should be used lightly as the competition for Temple was laughable but somehow without winning ANYTHING of substance this staff gets compared in a favorable light to their predecessors. I was a Randy fan, but I'm also a Golden fan. I support whoever is coach at the time, but I do NOT support consistency when results smack you with reality. At some point, what someone did at a previous school that is eons away from the talent of current Miami opponents has to be irrelevant.

Randy bought himself more time with a brief shake up and a decent 3rd year, but 1 decent year in 4 is a bad statistic no matter how you are grading, and who is in charge. AL had his first year of excuses, and now a SECOND. If that D of his doesn't show an improvement we may not even see the 9-4 mark Randy got in year 3.


IMHO

Correct, the competition at Temple was laughable but they also recruit inferior talent.

So let's review Temple plays inferior talent, with inferior talent. It's not like Temple was playing crap teams with decent talent. I also don't think people realize how much of a joke Temple was at football.

I think it is laughable to bring up RS because it is irrelevant. If you are comparing lack of success to lack of success, that is fine. I suppose then you can compare RS to Golden.

RS's tenure is dead and over, it is irrelevant. It needs to be buried in the past.

 

[bAMACANE]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

I love Golden and i think he has what it takes to get Miami back.
Now, year 3 under Shannon we saw sparks of the future. Every fan will tell you that they thought Miami was going to be good after that season.

So in year 3 under Golden, we have to have that spark to make us believe that Golden has Miami turning the corner.

 

[bAMACANE]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

This board will implode is FAU hangs 40 on us

If that happen Corch D is fired immediately fowllowing the game, no chance to even see the tape.

Lmao

 

[Consigliere]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

I love Golden and i think he has what it takes to get Miami back.
Now, year 3 under Shannon we saw sparks of the future. Every fan will tell you that they thought Miami was going to be good after that season.

So in year 3 under Golden, we have to have that spark to make us believe that Golden has Miami turning the corner.

So. What does that matter? Comparing a failure's regime to Al Golden, how does that help? Are Al and RS alike? My guess other than coaching at Miami they are nothing alike. Their styles, coaching, effort, development etc.

Why not compare Al to Harbaugh at Stanford?

 

[mikedeep97]

How many points does our defense hold FAU to?

Fau - 3
UF - 18
Savannah st - 0
USf - 6


That would be a good start and IMO indicative of the talent that we have. If those first 4 teams score a total of 40 points then will I be absolutely SOLD that he needs to go.

You're mandating that Miami needs to hold Florida to 18 points and that Miami HAS TO shut out another team? The Gators were held to 18 or fewer points by LSU and UGA. Are we saying that Miami has a defense with first round talent on it this year b/c I'm fairly certain that LSU and GA are going to put guys in the league early for 2013.

Miami should be able to come out and put up good defensive statistics early, but I don't believe we should be calling out a coach for giving up 40 points in four games when last year's top 10 scoring defenses gave up an avg of 14.5 points/game (granted we have a non-bcs team in there).

Just for comparison, Alabama played a four game stretch against WKU (shutout), Ark (shutout), FAU (7 points), and Ole Miss (14 points). The shutout against Ark was early the Razorback's third game into the debacle of a season, so that's really an aberration. Still, what you're asking for Nick Saban and the back-to-back National Champs were barely able to do with a clear advantage in defensive talent.

I understand where you're coming from, I just think we should be realistic. If we give up 7, 24, 0, and 10 (41 points) against that schedule I'm not sure how many of us need to be sharpening up the pitchforks.

 

[PGCountySoulCane]

Whats the difference between year 3 under Shannon and year 3 under
Golden? Defense wise
Shannon year 3 defense in 2009 was decent

Irrelevant, why bring this up?

I think there is relevance especially when the praise the staff gets is from previous successes. Successes should be used lightly as the competition for Temple was laughable but somehow without winning ANYTHING of substance this staff gets compared in a favorable light to their predecessors. I was a Randy fan, but I'm also a Golden fan. I support whoever is coach at the time, but I do NOT support consistency when results smack you with reality. At some point, what someone did at a previous school that is eons away from the talent of current Miami opponents has to be irrelevant.

Randy bought himself more time with a brief shake up and a decent 3rd year, but 1 decent year in 4 is a bad statistic no matter how you are grading, and who is in charge. AL had his first year of excuses, and now a SECOND. If that D of his doesn't show an improvement we may not even see the 9-4 mark Randy got in year 3.


IMHO

Correct, the competition at Temple was laughable but they also recruit inferior talent.

So let's review Temple plays inferior talent, with inferior talent. It's not like Temple was playing crap teams with decent talent. I also don't think people realize how much of a joke Temple was at football.

I think it is laughable to bring up RS because it is irrelevant. If you are comparing lack of success to lack of success, that is fine. I suppose then you can compare RS to Golden.

RS's tenure is dead and over, it is irrelevant. It needs to be buried in the past.

Agreed, the past is irrelevant especially at this level of CFB. I was merely adding on to what bamacane was pointing out. The reason I believe he was pointing it out was that whenever someone has something constructive albeit negative to say about AG, there is always the "But he did XYZ at Temple" or the "But RS was a corch and left the program with XYZ". Point is either AL gets it done or he doesnt. Anything RS related should be irrelevant, BUT anything AG does or does not accomplish should be discussed as we would any current HC or assistant.