Thoughts on the D

[courcy75]

What I'm really seeing from this D is that we are jack of all trades master of none.

Our front is asked to do so many different things, that they don't excel at any of them. I heard people constantly say "I want to see an attacking DL"...."play single gap".

But when we do exactly that, we don't execute. We are slow to get off, and don't exhibit any speed.

When we play two gap, we mostly just create a wall right in front of the pocket, but we leave massive cut back lanes and no passrush.

I get that NFL teams do both, but honestly only the very best ones do, and those who do usually do it with sub packages on third and long.

Constantly switching fronts down after down is just not something I understand anymore.

Take that Duke big run. What you see there is a 4-3 under, it's really a 2 gap 3-4. And what you have is every DL crashing, leaving an OLB on an island with the TE. McCord is so concerned with contain that he allows a massive cutback lane. But bc we are in a 4-3, it's not an ILB asked to fill, but a freaking flat footed CB who stands zero chance.

Now we can say "well they had a guy to make the play", but it's a nonsensicle way of defending the run.

Want to play 2gap? Run a 3-4, keep it simple. Want to play single gap? Stop wasting precious practice time on 2gap principles and get guys to get up field! These aren't professionals.

So what is the difference between a 4-3 under and a 3-4 under? Teams still treat it as an odd front 3-5-1-5-9. They haven't wasted time teaching 2 gap because the film shows flashes of what they are teaching. Ther issue is not the scheme it's the talent. Let's be real here, if Miami lined up in a 4-3 front trying to play 1 gap Curtis porter would be the only guy in the backfield. Chances are that only happens 2 games a year considering his injury report. below are a few clips of what is being taught being applied in games. Olsen Pierre is on most of these clips and he is making plays not because of his explosiveness but because of technique. Corey King actually makes a play in the spring game early on by crossing Wheeler's face when he attempts to block back on power on the first drive I believe. (I don't have a link for the spring game yet.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MIbr8eeDvI

 

[Trilla]

No doubt that Morris is extremely difficult to defend.

But as far as the Dortch play on Duke: there is no reason why a two gap front should have the primary cut back lane responsibility left to a CB. Yes, technically the scheme put a guy in position, but it's a bad matchup. I want my CBs flowing to the outside on a run play, not plugging holes. It's essentially a man LOS yet there is a lane you can literally fit a car through, and we saw this countless times last year.

My whole issue is that these guys are clearly caught in between. Not even Bama runs such diverse fronts. They play a basic 2-gap until third and long where they then take the NT off and rush four faster DL and possible blitzers.

Miami is switching from 4-3 over, 4-3 under, 3-4, and adding in zone blitzes and various stunts (which btw often are our biggest issue on big cut back runs), and they show any of these looks on any down. This would be fun if it was an NFL team but these are college kids and we are seeing them struggle bc they have too many things they are asked to do.

Contrast that with the simplicity of "beat the man in front of you and attack this gap" all game a la FSU.

If you have to split already limited practice time between four styles of DL play, plus games/stunts, you are not going to be as good at anything as the kids who spend all their practice time mastering one or maybe two skills. It's just common sense.

Ofrios plan will only work if we have an upperclassmen laden team. These kids at Stanford wouldn't be able to digest this scheme. This is a big year and the Excuses are running out. Donofrio should have been canned last year with the worst defense in Miami history. If doesn't crack the top 25 in total defense, his seat is gonna be burning! The access to fast twitch athletes is endless down here. We need to start utilizing this on the defensive side. The style we play does not suit the talent we have.

 

[NVA CANE]

Well if you look at what Dorito and golden did at temple it took 3 years to have their players learn their scheme. Year 1 they were ranked 116 or something like that. Year 2 they were ranked in the 60ish range and year 3 they were in the low 20s I believe. If you consider last year the first year then there will still be growing pains come this season if you go by their history

On a side note I think that was scoring defense not total defense

 

[rok]

I don't buy that our offense is making our defense look bad. This offense had its moments last season but they did nothing against the better teams on the schedule. Everything hinges on Porter in 2013.

 

[NVA CANE]

I'm no Xs and Os guy but it just seems to me that if its going to take you potentially 2+ years to teach your defensive philosophy then maybe it's just a little too complicated. I dont know what the normal time it takes to teach a new defense though?

 

[Trilla]

Well if you look at what Dorito and golden did at temple it took 3 years to have their players learn their scheme. Year 1 they were ranked 116 or something like that. Year 2 they were ranked in the 60ish range and year 3 they were in the low 20s I believe. If you consider last year the first year then there will still be growing pains come this season if you go by their history

On a side note I think that was scoring defense not total defense

Go watch film of Goldens last two seasons. They may not give up many points per se, but they get walked up and down the field like we do. Every game had that bend don't break **** we see every Saturday at sunlife. Ppl get it screwed thinking that they had a monster defense over there at Temple. That is not the case. They were decent and They just didn't give up tons of points.

 

[Coach Macho]

In his last season at Temple they registered 24 sacks. (*yawn*) They were 16th nationally in total defense and 16th in scoring defense. Not horrible but certainly not where I want Miami to be in the long run. (however I would love to have a defense like that this upcoming season)

Hopefully he can get us to a point where Miami becomes a premier defensive football program again. If he can't do that with the talent that Miami has in it's backyard then he's a failure IMO. We gotta get some DT's though.

 

[Coach Macho]

No doubt that Morris is extremely difficult to defend.

But as far as the Dortch play on Duke: there is no reason why a two gap front should have the primary cut back lane responsibility left to a CB. Yes, technically the scheme put a guy in position, but it's a bad matchup. I want my CBs flowing to the outside on a run play, not plugging holes. It's essentially a man LOS yet there is a lane you can literally fit a car through, and we saw this countless times last year.

My whole issue is that these guys are clearly caught in between. Not even Bama runs such diverse fronts. They play a basic 2-gap until third and long where they then take the NT off and rush four faster DL and possible blitzers.

Miami is switching from 4-3 over, 4-3 under, 3-4, and adding in zone blitzes and various stunts (which btw often are our biggest issue on big cut back runs), and they show any of these looks on any down. This would be fun if it was an NFL team but these are college kids and we are seeing them struggle bc they have too many things they are asked to do.

Contrast that with the simplicity of "beat the man in front of you and attack this gap" all game a la FSU.

If you have to split already limited practice time between four styles of DL play, plus games/stunts, you are not going to be as good at anything as the kids who spend all their practice time mastering one or maybe two skills. It's just common sense.

Agree 100%. I said last year that I think it looks like we're doing too much sometimes and I got ripped.

Sometimes I watch our defense and wonder if D'Onofrio is just throwing **** against the wall and seeing what sticks.

 

[hollyhood27]

What I'm really seeing from this D is that we are jack of all trades master of none.

Our front is asked to do so many different things, that they don't excel at any of them. I heard people constantly say "I want to see an attacking DL"...."play single gap".

But when we do exactly that, we don't execute. We are slow to get off, and don't exhibit any speed.

When we play two gap, we mostly just create a wall right in front of the pocket, but we leave massive cut back lanes and no passrush.

I get that NFL teams do both, but honestly only the very best ones do, and those who do usually do it with sub packages on third and long.

Constantly switching fronts down after down is just not something I understand anymore.

Take that Duke big run. What you see there is a 4-3 under, it's really a 2 gap 3-4. And what you have is every DL crashing, leaving an OLB on an island with the TE. McCord is so concerned with contain that he allows a massive cutback lane. But bc we are in a 4-3, it's not an ILB asked to fill, but a freaking flat footed CB who stands zero chance.

Now we can say "well they had a guy to make the play", but it's a nonsensicle way of defending the run.

Want to play 2gap? Run a 3-4, keep it simple. Want to play single gap? Stop wasting precious practice time on 2gap principles and get guys to get up field! These aren't professionals.

So what is the difference between a 4-3 under and a 3-4 under? Teams still treat it as an odd front 3-5-1-5-9. They haven't wasted time teaching 2 gap because the film shows flashes of what they are teaching. Ther issue is not the scheme it's the talent. Let's be real here, if Miami lined up in a 4-3 front trying to play 1 gap Curtis porter would be the only guy in the backfield. Chances are that only happens 2 games a year considering his injury report. below are a few clips of what is being taught being applied in games. Olsen Pierre is on most of these clips and he is making plays not because of his explosiveness but because of technique. Corey King actually makes a play in the spring game early on by crossing Wheeler's face when he attempts to block back on power on the first drive I believe. (I don't have a link for the spring game yet.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MIbr8eeDvI

stop making sense. there's no room for that here.

 

[Cash]

I don't buy that our offense is making our defense look bad. This offense had its moments last season but they did nothing against the better teams on the schedule. Everything hinges on Porter in 2013.

What was the s ore at halftime against ND,FSU? Still was a young roster until they had nothing left in the tank & ND got ugly. KSU just plain out played us & out coached us. Better roster management & depth this year. More experience & more talent across the board.

 

[bigsonnyu]

What I'm really seeing from this D is that we are jack of all trades master of none.

Our front is asked to do so many different things, that they don't excel at any of them. I heard people constantly say "I want to see an attacking DL"...."play single gap".

But when we do exactly that, we don't execute. We are slow to get off, and don't exhibit any speed.

When we play two gap, we mostly just create a wall right in front of the pocket, but we leave massive cut back lanes and no passrush.

I get that NFL teams do both, but honestly only the very best ones do, and those who do usually do it with sub packages on third and long.

Constantly switching fronts down after down is just not something I understand anymore.

Take that Duke big run. What you see there is a 4-3 under, it's really a 2 gap 3-4. And what you have is every DL crashing, leaving an OLB on an island with the TE. McCord is so concerned with contain that he allows a massive cutback lane. But bc we are in a 4-3, it's not an ILB asked to fill, but a freaking flat footed CB who stands zero chance.

Now we can say "well they had a guy to make the play", but it's a nonsensicle way of defending the run.

Want to play 2gap? Run a 3-4, keep it simple. Want to play single gap? Stop wasting precious practice time on 2gap principles and get guys to get up field! These aren't professionals.

FYI....the spring game defense was vanilla.

But since you're at it, will you point out what went wrong with the coverage on Andre Johnson's touchdown too?

 

[hollyhood27]

What I'm really seeing from this D is that we are jack of all trades master of none.

Our front is asked to do so many different things, that they don't excel at any of them. I heard people constantly say "I want to see an attacking DL"...."play single gap".

But when we do exactly that, we don't execute. We are slow to get off, and don't exhibit any speed.

When we play two gap, we mostly just create a wall right in front of the pocket, but we leave massive cut back lanes and no passrush.

I get that NFL teams do both, but honestly only the very best ones do, and those who do usually do it with sub packages on third and long.

Constantly switching fronts down after down is just not something I understand anymore.

Take that Duke big run. What you see there is a 4-3 under, it's really a 2 gap 3-4. And what you have is every DL crashing, leaving an OLB on an island with the TE. McCord is so concerned with contain that he allows a massive cutback lane. But bc we are in a 4-3, it's not an ILB asked to fill, but a freaking flat footed CB who stands zero chance.

Now we can say "well they had a guy to make the play", but it's a nonsensicle way of defending the run.

Want to play 2gap? Run a 3-4, keep it simple. Want to play single gap? Stop wasting precious practice time on 2gap principles and get guys to get up field! These aren't professionals.

FYI....the spring game defense was vanilla.

But since you're at it, will you point out what went wrong with the coverage on Andre Johnson's touchdown too?

Dline did't get a push and the Backers bit on the playfake.

 

[Trilla]

I was just curious but have any of you listened to Ofrios interviews? Anyone remember this? --- He said countless times, yards per game don't matter or giving up 500 yards per game is not important - scoring defense is.

The guy is a loser and coaches with a losers mentality. Either way its a win-win (i hope). Either he improves the defense drastically and we see major strides or he fields the same **** this year, which will have the Alumni and boosters pushing for his exit. Year 3..no excuses! **** or get off the pot

 

[LuCane]

What I'm really seeing from this D is that we are jack of all trades master of none.

Our front is asked to do so many different things, that they don't excel at any of them. I heard people constantly say "I want to see an attacking DL"...."play single gap".

But when we do exactly that, we don't execute. We are slow to get off, and don't exhibit any speed.

When we play two gap, we mostly just create a wall right in front of the pocket, but we leave massive cut back lanes and no passrush.

I get that NFL teams do both, but honestly only the very best ones do, and those who do usually do it with sub packages on third and long.

Constantly switching fronts down after down is just not something I understand anymore.

Take that Duke big run. What you see there is a 4-3 under, it's really a 2 gap 3-4. And what you have is every DL crashing, leaving an OLB on an island with the TE. McCord is so concerned with contain that he allows a massive cutback lane. But bc we are in a 4-3, it's not an ILB asked to fill, but a freaking flat footed CB who stands zero chance.

Now we can say "well they had a guy to make the play", but it's a nonsensicle way of defending the run.

Want to play 2gap? Run a 3-4, keep it simple. Want to play single gap? Stop wasting precious practice time on 2gap principles and get guys to get up field! These aren't professionals.

So what is the difference between a 4-3 under and a 3-4 under? Teams still treat it as an odd front 3-5-1-5-9. They haven't wasted time teaching 2 gap because the film shows flashes of what they are teaching. Ther issue is not the scheme it's the talent. Let's be real here, if Miami lined up in a 4-3 front trying to play 1 gap Curtis porter would be the only guy in the backfield. Chances are that only happens 2 games a year considering his injury report. below are a few clips of what is being taught being applied in games. Olsen Pierre is on most of these clips and he is making plays not because of his explosiveness but because of technique. Corey King actually makes a play in the spring game early on by crossing Wheeler's face when he attempts to block back on power on the first drive I believe. (I don't have a link for the spring game yet.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MIbr8eeDvI

stop making sense. there's no room for that here.

I'm sure both of you can see the problem with this approach when your DLinemen are either not very talented or not very strong. What's crazy is that this wasn't even our biggest problem. If a team wants to line up and run the ball at us out of traditional sets, I feel good. If I'm an opposing O-coordinator, I'm never lining up with less than 3 WR against Miami's scheme. Ever. Maybe 4.

 

[FullyERicht]

Lmao so the spring game defense was purposely vanilla, but the offense was showing everything? Makes no sense.

Secondly, I'm not arguing that the techniques they use are ineffective in theory. In practice, on a college team, however, it is too much.

 

[FullyERicht]

If you have to learn how to play 2-gap and one gap, plus zone blitzing, you are having to learn twice as much technique as guys on simpler scheme teams, but in the same amount of practice time. Therefore, to excel at DL in our multiple front D it takes twice as long to develop.

 

[cane since birth]

another thread about the scheme, if you get the right players for your scheme it will work, i keep saying this a lot of teams use the 2 gap approach, though i am not a big fan of dorito, he doesnt just run the 2 gap, he basically runs everything, and you cant judge the team on the scrimmages and the spring game, they are scripted, they just want to see how their team reacts in certain situations, i was at the spring game and i have to say i did see some good penetration by the D-line, and there were a lot of holds that werent called in the game too, i do have to say this if the D is going to have to step up this year

 

[Deleted User]

I was just curious but have any of you listened to Ofrios interviews? Anyone remember this? --- He said countless times, yards per game don't matter or giving up 500 yards per game is not important - scoring defense is.

The guy is a loser and coaches with a losers mentality. Either way its a win-win (i hope). Either he improves the defense drastically and we see major strides or he fields the same **** this year, which will have the Alumni and boosters pushing for his exit. Year 3..no excuses! **** or get off the pot

Yeah, weird mentality. Why would you focus on how many points are scored in a game? Its not like that determines who wins and who loses.......oh wait, whats that? It actually does......

 

[DaU83]

I'm no Xs and Os guy but it just seems to me that if its going to take you potentially 2+ years to teach your defensive philosophy then maybe it's just a little too complicated. I dont know what the normal time it takes to teach a new defense though?

The reality is, that they came in here to build for the long term. It makes no sense to do something to solve the problem short term and put you behind the 8 ball when you're getting the type of guys for the system you want to run.

 

[DaU83]

I was just curious but have any of you listened to Ofrios interviews? Anyone remember this? --- He said countless times, yards per game don't matter or giving up 500 yards per game is not important - scoring defense is.

The guy is a loser and coaches with a losers mentality. Either way its a win-win (i hope). Either he improves the defense drastically and we see major strides or he fields the same **** this year, which will have the Alumni and boosters pushing for his exit. Year 3..no excuses! **** or get off the pot

Now you're going to tell me that hits given up by a pitcher is more important than ERA, right?