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this has nothing to do with talent
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gacaneaddict
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Yeah we know 1st 2 drives of WF game we were off on some alignment and assissment.
That play is made if Bain wasnt chasing a sack.
That play is made if Bain wasnt chasing a sack.
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Agreed.
Three receivers to the left WIIIIIDE side. One LB just to the outside of the DE. One CB8 yards off the ball (beyond the first down line). One deep safety even with the DE.
If the ball is handed off going towards the wide side of the field, the three receivers (tight ends?) have an easy chance to dominate the edge by double-teaming the DE, and handling the OLB and CB. After that, it's off to the races, assuming the playcall goes to the wide side.
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As I said in another thread… afraid it was more just Wake not taking advantage of what they could have and not the defense being fixed. Boneheaded on their part to not even try what GT killed us with and just stick to what they do.
Luckily, Syracuse is a lot of the same. We’ll see if they change what they do for the matchup.
Also like I said, ya the alignment isn’t good to begin with but Bain continues to rush up field and take himself out of the play. He did it 3-4 times and Baron does it too. I’m not sure who is coaching it that way or if our players are just that clueless. Mesidor is more effective at the end because he is far more disciplined than the others in that regard
Luckily, Syracuse is a lot of the same. We’ll see if they change what they do for the matchup.
Also like I said, ya the alignment isn’t good to begin with but Bain continues to rush up field and take himself out of the play. He did it 3-4 times and Baron does it too. I’m not sure who is coaching it that way or if our players are just that clueless. Mesidor is more effective at the end because he is far more disciplined than the others in that regard
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati
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While I don’t necessarily disagree, I hate these sorts of posts for two reasons:
1. We don’t know what the defensive assignments were. We can make educated guesses, but that’s all they are.
2. How do we know the players weren’t instructed to shift/adjust/change assignment, but just didn’t? Or the safety didn’t make the call to adjust? We don’t.
Again, I don’t disagree conceptually with the point of this. It’s the pointing of the finger at Guidry without mentioning the points I listed above.
1. We don’t know what the defensive assignments were. We can make educated guesses, but that’s all they are.
2. How do we know the players weren’t instructed to shift/adjust/change assignment, but just didn’t? Or the safety didn’t make the call to adjust? We don’t.
Again, I don’t disagree conceptually with the point of this. It’s the pointing of the finger at Guidry without mentioning the points I listed above.
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Thats the point, the players are tehn confused and not communicating when we spoke ALLLLLLLLL bye week about Alignment and communication.. If you cant do the foundational things right then you defense will have ALOT of trouble when challenged.
If you put your finger in your ears and say lalalalalalala when playing Wake then dont be confused when issue pops up against offenses who have more juice take advantage.. You dont need to know the call when you have 3 defenders on on right side of center and they have 5 lmaoooo
fair points ... i never played past middle school, but i know from my playing days that you shift to the strong side to avoid being out leverage and your stronger linebacker is normally on the strong side, while your faster lb is backside to scrape ... in a 4-3 front normally the tackles are in the b gaps ... again, i haven't played since middle school ... a d1 college dc ought to be able to get us line up correctly in a base 4-3 ...
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati
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I do agree that snapshots can be misleading at times.
And while I can agree with "defensive assignments", I am more concerned with "defensive alignments" here.
As I mentioned, given the fact that this is THIRD AND FIVE, I am most concerned with two things. One is how few defenders we have to the personnel-heavy side of the field (which happens to be the wide side) and the other is how deep the safeties are.
The combination of those two factors as to where we are lined up makes it nearly impossible to defend a run to the wide side of the field, at least without giving up five easy yards (and a first down).
It doesn't matter if the MLB is "assigned" to shadow the running back, if there is a quick sweep to the wide side, there is no way the MLB can either (a) get into the backfield fast enough, or (b) navigate the traffic of blockers, an OLB, and a CB in enough time LATERALLY to prevent the first down.
I have no idea what that play was, or what the outcome was. All I know is that I should snap the ball and get it to the RB going to the wide side of the field. Handoff, pitch, shovel pass, lob, I don't care, just let the running back RUN.
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I think he was syaing "you don't need to know the call" to know that you are outmanned nearly 2-to-1 at the point of attack.
Everybody remain calm.
We definitely need to improve our alignments. We could have a great defensive playcall, but if guys are not in the best spot to excecute...
...this is a game of inches.
(Pause?)
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Assignments don’t matter if ur misaligned and if our DC is purposely aligning this way that’s ducking scary. Our Defense is making the easy things hard just get lined up correctly. I still have no clue how we can’t get lined up in week 13 like how dumb are the players or coaches
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati
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The secondary was shifted to the strong side. Maybe they just sold out for the pass since it was 3rd and 5? I don’t know because I wasn’t at practice all week, nor on the field.
There’s zero pushback from me on the alignment. Agree that it’s clear as day that we were outmanned on the strong side. It’s the assigning of blame that I’m pushing back on for the reasons I listed.
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Mario and Guidry both acknowledged alignment issues during the press briefing yesterday. They focused on the first couple of series, but this is early 2nd quarter. I do think they settled in after that, at least it wasn't as glaring. Rome wasn't built in a day guys. They were much much worse pre bye week.
I think OP's other point is equally important to note. It's not athletic limitations. Meesh is a little slow and can be exploited. Porter is a little short and can be exploited (Syracuse might target him) given they love contested catches. But by and large, we have the athletes. They just need to execute their assignments better.
I think OP's other point is equally important to note. It's not athletic limitations. Meesh is a little slow and can be exploited. Porter is a little short and can be exploited (Syracuse might target him) given they love contested catches. But by and large, we have the athletes. They just need to execute their assignments better.
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BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati
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It’s the last sentence of what you wrote. How do you know if the DC has or has not gone over this with these guys?
The rest of what you said I’m good with.
Just to further clarify, I’m not the president of the Lance Guidry fan club. I’m not getting paid to defend him. I’m perplexed by this. Last year, most of us thought he was awesome. This year, not so much. So does that mean he was a good explainer last year and forgot how to explain this year? It’s weird. It’s odd. It’s uncommon. It’s why I pushed back on the assigning of blame. Nothing more.
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I think we largely agree.
To me, it just breaks my logical brain. You have two red flags waving at once. You have the "wide-side" red flag PLUS the "three receivers to the wide-side" red flag.
Makes no sense at all, even if you eventually move guys around pre-snap.
The DE doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He doesn't know whether his backside is covered by a late shift. People have made comments elsewhere about Bain chasing sacks, but the man is doing everthing he can to snuff every play in the backfield. Because I don't think he's very sure that his LBs and DBs can clean up what he disrupts.
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At it’s most basic, football is a numbers game. We lose leverage on the edges way too often just by being outnumbered from the jump. Wake did not take advantage of the edge like GT and VT did. I think it’s because their offense isn’t really designed to run outside the tackles. Especially being reliant on the slow mesh that keeps linemen in a pass blocking stance instead of getting them out in front or pulling to the outside. Syracuse likely will not test us much either since that’s not a big part of what they do offensively.
The issue remains. The photo in OP isn’t even the most egregious example from last Saturday. There were several plays where we were outnumbered at the snap but didn’t get punished because the play didn’t go that direction or we had a linemen make a huge eraser play against their subpar offensive line to negate the advantage.
Running between the tackles against us is a losing proposition. We’re still technically one of the better run defenses in FBS but teams that creatively use formations, motions and shifts have been able to out leverage us on the outside. We’re often outnumbered and when the help comes it’s often slow to get there or coming from a poor angle.
The issue remains. The photo in OP isn’t even the most egregious example from last Saturday. There were several plays where we were outnumbered at the snap but didn’t get punished because the play didn’t go that direction or we had a linemen make a huge eraser play against their subpar offensive line to negate the advantage.
Running between the tackles against us is a losing proposition. We’re still technically one of the better run defenses in FBS but teams that creatively use formations, motions and shifts have been able to out leverage us on the outside. We’re often outnumbered and when the help comes it’s often slow to get there or coming from a poor angle.
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Ironmanfootball
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Agree 100%. Wake didn't run a single toss play. Not one. They tried that one screen?
I can't recall a wheel route to the RB or taking advantage of Mauislowa in any way at all.
Played into his strengths instead.
The good news is Cuse doesn’t run much and when they do it hasn’t been all that productive. It seems like we could match up well in the fact that we pass and run well and they don’t defend the run very well and we can make them one dimensional. May be the only game where our guys can truly pin their ears back on the Dline.
kyle_schick
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Its less about finger pointing to me.
It doesn't matter whos really at fault, its just very bad, and it opens more questions.
Is it Guidry telling them to do this?
Do none of the players realize how wrong they are lined up?
Do they realize the error but aren't allowed to fix it?
Do they know its wrong and are just ignoring?
Why are they ignoring it? Do they not care, or do they think the other players are too stupid?
It doesn't matter whos really at fault, its just very bad, and it opens more questions.
Is it Guidry telling them to do this?
Do none of the players realize how wrong they are lined up?
Do they realize the error but aren't allowed to fix it?
Do they know its wrong and are just ignoring?
Why are they ignoring it? Do they not care, or do they think the other players are too stupid?
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Hard to respect a guy that records his computer monitor. OBS is free. It's not hard to make quality video.
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