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The State of the Miami Defensive Line...13 years ago

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There are a couple of things worth pointing out here that go beyond the names. One is that the 2000 DL and defense actually had some strengths. Namely, their DL was worthless in terms of a pass rush but they could stop the run. They had solid size and they were narrow split so they could accomplish that task. Secondly, that defense had a very good back 7--the likes of Reed, Blades, James Lewis, Morgan, Rumph, Myers, Buchanon, Campbell. Our back 7 has yet to establish itself as anything other than mediocre. We don't yet have a unit that we can rely on. Third, that team had a DC named Schiano. What they lacked in pass rush he made up for with creative blitzing--he could do that because he had an excellent back 7 and a smart team. We probably have neither, and I'm not sure that D'Onofrio is anywhere near Schiano.

Also, the leap from 2000 to 2001 in terms of the DL was also about the scheme. We were a narrow split team that relied on stopping run and employing blitzes. Shannon came after that year and turned us basically into a wide split, upfield, bump and run team that was aggressive as all **** and rarely blitzed. It wasn't just that the DE's came. It was that they came and plugged into a system that turned them completely loose. That also benefitted guys like Joseph, Jamaal Green, Corny Green, and Walters who were already around. Wilfork can play in whatever it probably didn't matter much for him. Shannon sacrificed run defense but played into the athleticism and speed on the DL.

My best hope for this DL and team is something of a poor man's 2000 unit--one where the front 4 alone can't pressure but can at least stop the run. Then D'Onofrio's job is to figure out how to get pressure without totally compromising his back 7. I don't expect that we'll be anywhere near what that team was defensively but we're starting at 116 or whatever. If we can get to 50 that'd be about all I expect from this bunch.
 
It took Suh a couple of years to develop at Nebraska, so I'm not really worried about the young pups. They have to develop, but our issue is with upperclassmen who haven't developed and we cant keep blaming RS. I'm not a fan of this scheme as it relates to our DL, its read and react approach probably scares off ears pinned-backed DL we've had in the past. Hope AG can make it work.
 
All I have to say is I have no faith in D'ohno to get creative or change his style.

If this defense gets better it'll only be when we get better players. D doesn't strike me as a defensive genius who'll adapt to his personnel or deploy creative blitzes to create pressure.
 
How are we supposed to know just how good our guys are if they get repremanded for making good plays that aren't scripted. Luther Robinson was all over the place making plays aginst BC, only to be knocked by the coaches.

All I'm saying is, how do we know how good our guys really are with this read and react BS?
 
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Port Knox said:
How are we supposed to know just how good our guys are if they get repremanded for making good plays that aren't scripted. Luther Robinson was all over the place making plays aginst BC, only to be knocked by the coaches.

All I'm saying is, how do we know how good our guys really are with this read and react BS?
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You pretty much have to watch them individually. The defensive line's job is essentially to cause a stalemate and control the flow into two gaps.
 
Has anybody actually heard him say that we're playing a 2-gap scheme up front? (or are we all just assuming?)

Serious question, because I've never heard him say it.
 
Port Knox said:
How are we supposed to know just how good our guys are if they get repremanded for making good plays that aren't scripted. Luther Robinson was all over the place making plays aginst BC, only to be knocked by the coaches.

All I'm saying is, how do we know how good our guys really are with this read and react BS?
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He was simply angling when he made the big plays in the BC game, he wasn't doing anything he wasn't supposed to be doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_cYy2bW2J0&list=PLB7qDmWd0ofb9lAqAi5HTZIyPs8-s7I8x
 
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Pennmed Canefan said:
There are a couple of things worth pointing out here that go beyond the names. One is that the 2000 DL and defense actually had some strengths. Namely, their DL was worthless in terms of a pass rush but they could stop the run. They had solid size and they were narrow split so they could accomplish that task. Secondly, that defense had a very good back 7--the likes of Reed, Blades, James Lewis, Morgan, Rumph, Myers, Buchanon, Campbell. Our back 7 has yet to establish itself as anything other than mediocre. We don't yet have a unit that we can rely on. Third, that team had a DC named Schiano. What they lacked in pass rush he made up for with creative blitzing--he could do that because he had an excellent back 7 and a smart team. We probably have neither, and I'm not sure that D'Onofrio is anywhere near Schiano.

Also, the leap from 2000 to 2001 in terms of the DL was also about the scheme. We were a narrow split team that relied on stopping run and employing blitzes. Shannon came after that year and turned us basically into a wide split, upfield, bump and run team that was aggressive as all **** and rarely blitzed. It wasn't just that the DE's came. It was that they came and plugged into a system that turned them completely loose. That also benefitted guys like Joseph, Jamaal Green, Corny Green, and Walters who were already around. Wilfork can play in whatever it probably didn't matter much for him. Shannon sacrificed run defense but played into the athleticism and speed on the DL.

My best hope for this DL and team is something of a poor man's 2000 unit--one where the front 4 alone can't pressure but can at least stop the run. Then D'Onofrio's job is to figure out how to get pressure without totally compromising his back 7. I don't expect that we'll be anywhere near what that team was defensively but we're starting at 116 or whatever. If we can get to 50 that'd be about all I expect from this bunch.
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All good points but one thing IO'd like to comment on - you mentioned that scheme was the big change b/w years. yes, this is true, but we couldn't have that scheme change without Williams and McDougle. If we went scheme change in 2000, we would have been even more ineffective. Williams and McD changed the landscape of our defense. People forget that McD had 49 QB hurries in his first year of D1A football. That is unprecedented. The amount of chaos that guy created alone was unbelievable.
 
it was a problem before al and coach d got here. the reality is you cant win with puppies in the trenches. Earl Moore and Dequan Ivery should have been redshirted. Its not their fault.
 
i would love to add simmons or derosier. I think this is incoming class is the last one that will have to play out of necessity. we will be able to start redshirting kids now.
 
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AUcane said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
There are a couple of things worth pointing out here that go beyond the names. One is that the 2000 DL and defense actually had some strengths. Namely, their DL was worthless in terms of a pass rush but they could stop the run. They had solid size and they were narrow split so they could accomplish that task. Secondly, that defense had a very good back 7--the likes of Reed, Blades, James Lewis, Morgan, Rumph, Myers, Buchanon, Campbell. Our back 7 has yet to establish itself as anything other than mediocre. We don't yet have a unit that we can rely on. Third, that team had a DC named Schiano. What they lacked in pass rush he made up for with creative blitzing--he could do that because he had an excellent back 7 and a smart team. We probably have neither, and I'm not sure that D'Onofrio is anywhere near Schiano.

Also, the leap from 2000 to 2001 in terms of the DL was also about the scheme. We were a narrow split team that relied on stopping run and employing blitzes. Shannon came after that year and turned us basically into a wide split, upfield, bump and run team that was aggressive as all **** and rarely blitzed. It wasn't just that the DE's came. It was that they came and plugged into a system that turned them completely loose. That also benefitted guys like Joseph, Jamaal Green, Corny Green, and Walters who were already around. Wilfork can play in whatever it probably didn't matter much for him. Shannon sacrificed run defense but played into the athleticism and speed on the DL.

My best hope for this DL and team is something of a poor man's 2000 unit--one where the front 4 alone can't pressure but can at least stop the run. Then D'Onofrio's job is to figure out how to get pressure without totally compromising his back 7. I don't expect that we'll be anywhere near what that team was defensively but we're starting at 116 or whatever. If we can get to 50 that'd be about all I expect from this bunch.
Click to expand...

All good points but one thing IO'd like to comment on - you mentioned that scheme was the big change b/w years. yes, this is true, but we couldn't have that scheme change without Williams and McDougle. If we went scheme change in 2000, we would have been even more ineffective. Williams and McD changed the landscape of our defense. People forget that McD had 49 QB hurries in his first year of D1A football. That is unprecedented. The amount of chaos that guy created alone was unbelievable.
Click to expand...

While I would agree both Williams and JMac were important components in providing upfield pressure off the edges, the Green brothers were almost as effective. If memory serves correctly, Williams went down with an injury and the beat didn't stop with JGreen. The scheme allowed the entire front four to be disruptive. It also played to their athleticism. Because of those wide splits PMC mentioned offensive linemen had problems reaching and hooking the front four.

Another important issue about that scheme was Shannon didn't bring down a safety to help the linebackers against the run. Typically, when you see a defensive line aligning in such wide splits, the defense is usually running an eight man front. Shannon always kept his safeties at roughly equal depth, although there were times JLewis/MSikes would shave about three yards off of the FS. More than anything it speaks volumes about the talent level UM had at LBer, as those units during the early Shannon years as DC were asked to squeeze down running lanes and provide tight man coverage.

To answer your question about scheme change in 2000, I think we could have been an effective upfield unit, providing WJoseph played inside. The bigger question would have been the play of ABlades. Blades was basically a linebacker in Butch's eight man front and a liability in coverage. We didn't run much man coverage during 2000, everything was cover-3, cover-2 and inverted cover-2.
 
Dynasty said:
AUcane said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
There are a couple of things worth pointing out here that go beyond the names. One is that the 2000 DL and defense actually had some strengths. Namely, their DL was worthless in terms of a pass rush but they could stop the run. They had solid size and they were narrow split so they could accomplish that task. Secondly, that defense had a very good back 7--the likes of Reed, Blades, James Lewis, Morgan, Rumph, Myers, Buchanon, Campbell. Our back 7 has yet to establish itself as anything other than mediocre. We don't yet have a unit that we can rely on. Third, that team had a DC named Schiano. What they lacked in pass rush he made up for with creative blitzing--he could do that because he had an excellent back 7 and a smart team. We probably have neither, and I'm not sure that D'Onofrio is anywhere near Schiano.

Also, the leap from 2000 to 2001 in terms of the DL was also about the scheme. We were a narrow split team that relied on stopping run and employing blitzes. Shannon came after that year and turned us basically into a wide split, upfield, bump and run team that was aggressive as all **** and rarely blitzed. It wasn't just that the DE's came. It was that they came and plugged into a system that turned them completely loose. That also benefitted guys like Joseph, Jamaal Green, Corny Green, and Walters who were already around. Wilfork can play in whatever it probably didn't matter much for him. Shannon sacrificed run defense but played into the athleticism and speed on the DL.

My best hope for this DL and team is something of a poor man's 2000 unit--one where the front 4 alone can't pressure but can at least stop the run. Then D'Onofrio's job is to figure out how to get pressure without totally compromising his back 7. I don't expect that we'll be anywhere near what that team was defensively but we're starting at 116 or whatever. If we can get to 50 that'd be about all I expect from this bunch.
Click to expand...

All good points but one thing IO'd like to comment on - you mentioned that scheme was the big change b/w years. yes, this is true, but we couldn't have that scheme change without Williams and McDougle. If we went scheme change in 2000, we would have been even more ineffective. Williams and McD changed the landscape of our defense. People forget that McD had 49 QB hurries in his first year of D1A football. That is unprecedented. The amount of chaos that guy created alone was unbelievable.
Click to expand...

While I would agree both Williams and JMac were important components in providing upfield pressure off the edges, the Green brothers were almost as effective. If memory serves correctly, Williams went down with an injury and the beat didn't stop with JGreen. The scheme allowed the entire front four to be disruptive. It also played to their athleticism. Because of those wide splits PMC mentioned offensive linemen had problems reaching and hooking the front four.

Another important issue about that scheme was Shannon didn't bring down a safety to help the linebackers against the run. Typically, when you see a defensive line aligning in such wide splits, the defense is usually running an eight man front. Shannon always kept his safeties at roughly equal depth, although there were times JLewis/MSikes would shave about three yards off of the FS. More than anything it speaks volumes about the talent level UM had at LBer, as those units during the early Shannon years as DC were asked to squeeze down running lanes and provide tight man coverage.

To answer your question about scheme change in 2000, I think we could have been an effective upfield unit, providing WJoseph played inside. The bigger question would have been the play of ABlades. Blades was basically a linebacker in Butch's eight man front and a liability in coverage. We didn't run much man coverage during 2000, everything was cover-3, cover-2 and inverted cover-2.
Click to expand...

Blades (RIP) had his troubles in the Cover 2. The Anquan Boldin game stands out as one example.
 
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robertpaige said:
Call me crazy, but I think Grimble puts it all together this season.
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you aint the only one...i notice the kid when they lined him up at end...he set the edge pretty well....to be honest grimble is better than guys like Moore, King, Ivery imo...just that the kid was a 5 star so that is what we were expecting from jump....not knowing he was a kid that needed a redshirt and time to settle in as he was an end in high school and body wise he is a "tweener".
 
McDougle and Williams are two of the most underrated players to ever come through here--mostly because they didn't accomplish anything at the next level for various reasons. The coaches would kill for two 6'4 275 athletes like those guys at DE right now.
 
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