The Penalty - My Take June 18th

My thoughts--

NCAA COI needs to write it up to: (1) somewhat justify the sanctions already self-imposed by UM and protect enforcement; (2) perhaps vacate some wins to justify the NCAA's continuing the process to conclusion; (3) perhaps hit individual coaches where justified by the evidence to demonstrate that you can't "violate and run" anymore and that there now will be individual consequences; (4) comment upon the impact of the length of the investigation as a consequence of a violation and encourage reform to address the issue in the future; (5) comment upon UM's compliance efforts, lack of knowledge, retention of an investigator, etc., as mitigating factors (no LOIC, no probation. etc.); (6) comment upon and reward UM's exceptional cooperation by treating it as a mitigating factor to motivate other schools to do the same in the future; (7) comment upon UM's aggressive self-imposition as mitigation; (8) comment upon Shapiro's lack of credibility, blatant bias and improper motivation as casting doubt on much of his testimony to send a message that rogue boosters with agendas won't be able to shake down or take down institutions in the future through covert NCAA violations (no LOIC) that they later use as weapons; (9) comment critically upon the NCAA's handling of the investigation to show COI independence from enforcement and to demonstrate that the NCAA can police itself (like the NTSB does in air accident investigations by assessing FAA performance); and (10) bar all NCAA institutions from ever associating with Shapiro or entities with which he is affiliated again in the future.

The COI should use this case as a roadmap for institutions and the NCAA in handling serious allegations (cooperation, no use of improper investigatory means, etc.), to school coaches on individual consequences, to protect institutions from rogue boosters motivated by vengeance or self-gain in reporting and seeking prosecution of violations and, finally, to regain some public confidence and demonstrate that the NCAA is just there to steamroll programs, etc. COI needs to undo some harm from the PSU debacle and negative press from this investigation and evenhandedness and restraint will help here.
 
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We are being charged with LOIC because of our coaches alleged involvement in the infractions. I don't think LOIC will go away but you may be right on the amount of scholarships we lose a year. Everyday courts around the United States use testimony from thieves, murders and rapist to convict others so I don't see why the NCAA would be any different. I think the lawsuit filed by the Paterno's will go a long ways and showing what the NCAA can get away with. The NCAA didn't even pretend to follow its on process there.

At the end of the day we still have South Florida producing talent like no area in the country and that is something the NCAA can't take away. The better we perform on the field will help us land some of these guys and bring us back towards the top. It has been a long 2.5 years but with our staff and current set up players I think Miami has some great days ahead.

No offense Andrew but I'm interested in knowing your background and experience in a court room. Your comment in regards to courts recognizing the testimony of criminals as fact is not as commonplace and you make it sound. I've worked with SAO's in the 20th JC and in the process of investigating organized crime, sometimes you need to make deals with the devil but the state does not like to employ these tactics and more often then not they will not. The NCAA is a hack organization and have completely f#cked their case. In no way if this were a criminal court, would the NCAA have a leg to stand on. They would be embarassed in a courtroom which could possibly open up Pandora's Box like some of their other investigations out west have.
 
rose colored glasses . . . i am not optimistic.

objectively speaking, i would not be surprised that we get hammered more than what we already self-imposed. we have no leverage here. lawsuit? sure, that's a good option but while it is being litigated, the penalty would still be in effect.
 
Too many optimists. We are miami. Most hated team of the NCAA.
They try the hammer. They realize that waiting kills the program. Extra sanctions= lawsuit equals 3 years limbo = ncaa victory. Regardless outcome.
 
rose colored glasses . . . i am not optimistic.

objectively speaking, i would not be surprised that we get hammered more than what we already self-imposed. we have no leverage here. lawsuit? sure, that's a good option but while it is being litigated, the penalty would still be in effect.

not a lawyer but i believe that we would not have to face penalties during a lawsuit
 
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rose colored glasses . . . i am not optimistic.

objectively speaking, i would not be surprised that we get hammered more than what we already self-imposed. we have no leverage here. lawsuit? sure, that's a good option but while it is being litigated, the penalty would still be in effect.

not a lawyer but i believe that we would not have to face penalties during a lawsuit

what is the basis for your conclusion?

here's how I believe it would work. the NCAA hands out a penalty that is unacceptable to UM, UM files an action against the NCAA for (a) __________________ (fill in the blank with the cause of action that is most appropriate) and (b) a claim for injunction to prevent the NCAA from enforcing the unacceptable penalty. "(a)" will take a year or two to litigate and during this period the penalty would be in effect and injunctions are difficult to obtain so if they lose the motion for injunction the penalty would be in effect.

oh, by the way, before filing an action UM has to appeal the penalty within the NCAA system (i.e. exhaust administrative remedies, cf. Chevron), which can take a few months while the penalty is being applied.
 
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rose colored glasses . . . i am not optimistic.

objectively speaking, i would not be surprised that we get hammered more than what we already self-imposed. we have no leverage here. lawsuit? sure, that's a good option but while it is being litigated, the penalty would still be in effect.

not a lawyer but i believe that we would not have to face penalties during a lawsuit

what is the basis for your conclusion?

here's how I believe it would work. the NCAA hands out a penalty that is unacceptable to UM, UM files an action against the NCAA for (a) __________________ (fill in the blank with the cause of action that is most appropriate) and (b) a claim for injunction to prevent the NCAA from enforcing the unacceptable penalty. "(a)" will take a year or two to litigate and during this period the penalty would be in effect and injunctions are difficult to obtain so if they lose the motion for injunction the penalty would be in effect.

oh, by the way, before filing an action UM has to appeal the penalty within the NCAA system (i.e. exhaust administrative remedies, cf. Chevron), which can take a few months while the penalty is being applied.

Something called an injunction would put a halt to the penalties being enforced.
 
We are being charged with LOIC because of our coaches alleged involvement in the infractions. I don't think LOIC will go away but you may be right on the amount of scholarships we lose a year. Everyday courts around the United States use testimony from thieves, murders and rapist to convict others so I don't see why the NCAA would be any different. I think the lawsuit filed by the Paterno's will go a long ways and showing what the NCAA can get away with. The NCAA didn't even pretend to follow its on process there.

At the end of the day we still have South Florida producing talent like no area in the country and that is something the NCAA can't take away. The better we perform on the field will help us land some of these guys and bring us back towards the top. It has been a long 2.5 years but with our staff and current set up players I think Miami has some great days ahead.

No offense Andrew but I'm interested in knowing your background and experience in a court room. Your comment in regards to courts recognizing the testimony of criminals as fact is not as commonplace and you make it sound. I've worked with SAO's in the 20th JC and in the process of investigating organized crime, sometimes you need to make deals with the devil but the state does not like to employ these tactics and more often then not they will not. The NCAA is a hack organization and have completely f#cked their case. In no way if this were a criminal court, would the NCAA have a leg to stand on. They would be embarassed in a courtroom which could possibly open up Pandora's Box like some of their other investigations out west have.

This would never get to a criminal court because any prosecutor in his right mind would laugh a law enforcement officer out of his office with that sht. And IF it got past the prosecutor and to the court, if he's lying to the court to the effect that a substantial part of his testimony is tossed because he's perjured himself, then the rest of his testimony is getting tossed too. THEN, the judge is going to start admonishing any LEO who built the entire case on a liar. Only way prosecutor saves face is voluntarily dismissing it (Nolle Prosequi) at that point and apologizing, to the court, and to the defendant IN COURT.

We ain't gettin' a dayum thing if this wasn't a JOKE of an organization with its fake lawyers.
 
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rose colored glasses . . . i am not optimistic.

objectively speaking, i would not be surprised that we get hammered more than what we already self-imposed. we have no leverage here. lawsuit? sure, that's a good option but while it is being litigated, the penalty would still be in effect.

not a lawyer but i believe that we would not have to face penalties during a lawsuit

what is the basis for your conclusion?

here's how I believe it would work. the NCAA hands out a penalty that is unacceptable to UM, UM files an action against the NCAA for (a) __________________ (fill in the blank with the cause of action that is most appropriate) and (b) a claim for injunction to prevent the NCAA from enforcing the unacceptable penalty. "(a)" will take a year or two to litigate and during this period the penalty would be in effect and injunctions are difficult to obtain so if they lose the motion for injunction the penalty would be in effect.

oh, by the way, before filing an action UM has to appeal the penalty within the NCAA system (i.e. exhaust administrative remedies, cf. Chevron), which can take a few months while the penalty is being applied.

The penalties are not applied during the appeal process. Only upon losing the appeal do penalties go into effect.
 
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