The one thing we do well

[TemplarCane]

Dwayne Haskins (50 TDS) had better stats than Herbert. Was he better coached? How’d that work out? Same scouts who evaluated Haskins as a 1st round picks probably tagged Herbert for 2nd or 3rd (kidding).

Yes, one could argue Oregon‘s offense should have been more wide open, given Herbert’s skills. What Oregon didn’t have was WRs on par with Bama or Ohio State. And yes, that’s on Mario’s recruiting and/or development. Probably the later, because the Duck did snag some 4* WRs IIRC.

The End.

 

[Rellyrell]

The two bolded parts of your paragraph that i bolded is your exact answer to your question.

Lol; no, my guy.

Some have said Mario “ruined” Herbert when he became coach. That’s factually incorrect. He did not ruin Herbert, & in fact the offense improved under Mario from Herbert’s Sophomore Yr to his Jr Year. The fact is, Herbert was toting the rock more his Jr Year than his Sophomore Yr.

The second part was Herbert looked pedestrian under Mario. Again, Herbert’s #’s steadily rose under Mario & the two best seasons in Herbert’s career came under Mario. He won two bowl games, went 21-6 under Mario vs. 8-8 under the previous staff.

I’m stating that Mario could’ve show cased Herbert even further in 2019, but while Herbert was show cased in 2018, the team went 9-4. When the offense became more balanced, they went 12-2, so what’s the problem? Was Herbert still a top 10 pick? Yes. Did Herbert win Rose Bowl MVP? Yes. Did Herbert win Sr Bowl MVP? Yes. Was Herbert going to be drafted over Joe Burrow after the season he had? **** No. The only QB debate in question was Tua or Herbert, & that wouldn’t have been a debate had Tua not injured his hip.

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that the reason we had a good passing offense the past two seasons b/c our OC had zero balance? We ranked 97th & 67th the past two yrs in rushing.

So while TVD had some nice #’s, that led to a 6-3 record, & only one of said games came against a formidable opponent with a good pass defense which was NCST. Pitt’s pass defense was worst than ours, & we ranked 102nd in the nation. Every pass defense that TVD lit up to end the season, sans NCSt, was 63rd or below.

Again, u can throw out stats all day long, but one team went 10-3 playing in their conference championship game, missing hella playmakers, while the other team was fully healthy, tossing the rock all over the place going 7-5 (barely).

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that the reason we had a good passing offense the past two seasons b/c our OC had zero balance? We ranked 97th & 67th the past two yrs in rushing

Balance is distributing the ball to your play makers equally. Doesn't matter if it's running or passing. If the OL is better at pass blocking than run blocking and the QB can hit the RB for a 4 yard gain on first down, who gives a **** that it wasnt a run play? Thinking balance means a 50/50 split between running and passing is that dinosaur mentality that leads to a predictable offense that constantly does things the players aren't good at like asking Mallory to run block.

 

[Rellyrell]

Balance is distributing the ball to your play makers equally. Doesn't matter if it's running or passing. If the OL is better at pass blocking than run blocking and the QB can hit the RB for a 4 yard gain on first down, who gives a **** that it wasnt a run play? Thinking balance means a 50/50 split between running and passing is that dinosaur mentality that leads to a predictable offense that constantly does things the players aren't good at like asking Mallory to run block.

OK, cool.

So what happens when u throw the ball 51x vs. attempting 33 rushes & u get beat by 14 at home by a G5 school?

What happens when u throw the ball 41x vs attempting 30 rushes and those 30 rushes were only 50 yrds less in total yardage than what ur QB threw for in the game?

What happens when u go back to watch games & u see receivers wide the fck open, & ur QBs rather throw into double coverage or take deep shots w/ less probability of completion? What happens when guys drop passes that hit them in their hands, chest, helmet?

Again, it’s a lot of biased going on & it’s particularly by those who didn’t want Mario here, w/ u being one of them who tooted the Tom Jurich & Lane Kiffin Horn.

Yes, hold the staff culpable, but how about holding TVD culpable who didn’t even contact his WRs to work this off season. How bout holding him culpable for not going through progressions, moving safeties around, & an inability to read coverage, while staring down WRs. How about this is what happens when u solely rely on one guy vs. building chemistry w/ the entire room.

Not a coach defender, but the same ones who wanted Manny to stay or were rooting for Kiffin to come have been salivating at the “see, I told u so” opportunity, which is what I said was going to happen. I’ve been around this fan base long enough to know many prefer to be right v. patience. Talk all this chit when everything comes to full fruition, & stop looking towards other fan bases to receive confirmation bias.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

Lol; no, my guy.

Some have said Mario “ruined” Herbert when he became coach. That’s factually incorrect. He did not ruin Herbert, & in fact the offense improved under Mario from Herbert’s Sophomore Yr to his Jr Year. The fact is, Herbert was toting the rock more his Jr Year than his Sophomore Yr.

The second part was Herbert looked pedestrian under Mario. Again, Herbert’s #’s steadily rose under Mario & the two best seasons in Herbert’s career came under Mario. He won two bowl games, went 21-6 under Mario vs. 8-8 under the previous staff.

I’m stating that Mario could’ve show cased Herbert even further in 2019, but while Herbert was show cased in 2018, the team went 9-4. When the offense became more balanced, they went 12-2, so what’s the problem? Was Herbert still a top 10 pick? Yes. Did Herbert win Rose Bowl MVP? Yes. Did Herbert win Sr Bowl MVP? Yes. Was Herbert going to be drafted over Joe Burrow after the season he had? **** No. The only QB debate in question was Tua or Herbert, & that wouldn’t have been a debate had Tua not injured his hip.

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that the reason we had a good passing offense the past two seasons b/c our OC had zero balance? We ranked 97th & 67th the past two yrs in rushing.

So while TVD had some nice #’s, that led to a 6-3 record, & only one of said games came against a formidable opponent with a good pass defense which was NCST. Pitt’s pass defense was worst than ours, & we ranked 102nd in the nation. Every pass defense that TVD lit up to end the season, sans NCSt, was 63rd or below.

Again, u can throw out stats all day long, but one team went 10-3 playing in their conference championship game, missing hella playmakers, while the other team was fully healthy, tossing the rock all over the place going 7-5 (barely).

UVA- 2 pt loss and happened to be TVDs first start against a P5. Lashlee didn't trust TVD yet and ran the ball 40 times and called 29 pass plays. Mediocre performance by TVD.

UNC - TVD laid an egg. 3 pt loss on the road.

Now here's the part where I get a chuckle out of the dummies who keep saying, "The problem is we have a roster of players with a loser mentality and the reason Cristobal is sucking as coach is that he doesn't have players with heart."

UM is 2-4. We've got the backup QB who is struggling, the popular starter is done for the season, UM is now 0-2 in conference play. Clearly this" team of losers" is going to fold and be lucky to win 4 games. Surprise! UM goes on to win the next 6 of 7. At NC St, UM only rushes for 95 yards but TVD throws for 325 and 4 TDs. Nearly a 50/50 split in run pass but Lashlee finally sees how effective TVD is passing. So what happens against Pitt? 23 rush attempts, 56 pass attempts. We beat a very good Pitt team on the road.

Then GT at home. First half is an absolute disaster. 3 fumbles including a fumble return for an INT. Missed FGs. All 6 people in the stands are booing. Of course, this group of losers will quit on Diaz. Nope, TVD rallies the team and we end up winning again.

FSU is interesting. UM is down 20-7 at Halftime. First half went about as badly as possible for TVD. Two ints, sack fumble TD. Again, this group of players that Cristo-Bros are calling soft and without a desire to win, rally behind TVD and UM takes the lead in the 3rd quarter. Unfortunately the D gives up the lead and we go on to lose a heartbreaker. 23 rushing attempts to 47 pass attempts, not much of a balance but it gave UM an opportunity to fight back and take the lead after being deep in the hole. Virtually no chance that happens if Lashlee decides to try and go 50/50 run pass balance.

Now rumors about Diaz being fired are swirling with everyone saying he's 100% a goner. Of course, NOW is when the team is going to rollover. Diaz is a lame duck, just had gut wrenching loss to FSU.

We go on the road to play VT. UM wins by 12. 33 pass attempts, 26 run attempts. More passing than running, TVD puts up 357 yards and 3 TDs.

Last game of the season. Now this group of guys who Cristo-Bros say have no desire to win, play Duke on the road . Seasons basically over. Nothing really to play for but a bad bowl. UM obliterates them. 52 pass attempts, 36 run attempts. TVD throws for almost 400 yards and 3 TDs.

Even in the losses UM was in a position to win because we could score points through the air when needed. Diaz somehow squeezed every ounce of effort and production out of the offense. They never quit on him even when everyone knew he was getting fired. Yet four games into 2022, the team quit on Mario Cristobal. So you tell me, was Manny Diaz just a better leader and motivator than Mario Cristobal?

 

[Rellyrell]

UVA- 2 pt loss and happened to be TVDs first start against a P5. Lashlee didn't trust TVD yet and ran the ball 40 times and called 29 pass plays. Mediocre performance by TVD.

UNC - TVD laid an egg. 3 pt loss on the road.

Now here's the part where I get a chuckle out of the dummies who keep saying, "The problem is we have a roster of players with a loser mentality and the reason Cristobal is sucking as coach is that he doesn't have players with heart."

UM is 2-4. We've got the backup QB who is struggling, the popular starter is done for the season, UM is now 0-2 in conference play. Clearly this" team of losers" is going to fold and be lucky to win 4 games. Surprise! UM goes on to win the next 6 of 7. At NC St, UM only rushes for 95 yards but TVD throws for 325 and 4 TDs. Nearly a 50/50 split in run pass but Lashlee finally sees how effective TVD is passing. So what happens against Pitt? 23 rush attempts, 56 pass attempts. We beat a very good Pitt team on the road.

Then GT at home. First half is an absolute disaster. 3 fumbles including a fumble return for an INT. Missed FGs. All 6 people in the stands are booing. Of course, this group of losers will quit on Diaz. Nope, TVD rallies the team and we end up winning again.

FSU is interesting. UM is down 20-7 at Halftime. First half went about as badly as possible for TVD. Two ints, sack fumble TD. Again, this group of players that Cristo-Bros are calling soft and without a desire to win, rally behind TVD and UM takes the lead in the 3rd quarter. Unfortunately the D gives up the lead and we go on to lose a heartbreaker. 23 rushing attempts to 47 pass attempts, not much of a balance but it gave UM an opportunity to fight back and take the lead after being deep in the hole. Virtually no chance that happens if Lashlee decides to try and go 50/50 run pass balance.

Now rumors about Diaz being fired are swirling with everyone saying he's 100% a goner. Of course, NOW is when the team is going to rollover. Diaz is a lame duck, just had gut wrenching loss to FSU.

We go on the road to play VT. UM wins by 12. 33 pass attempts, 26 run attempts. More passing than running, TVD puts up 357 yards and 3 TDs.

Last game of the season. Now this group of guys who Cristo-Bros say have no desire to win, play Duke on the road . Seasons basically over. Nothing really to play for but a bad bowl. UM obliterates them. 52 pass attempts, 36 run attempts. TVD throws for almost 400 yards and 3 TDs.

Even in the losses UM was in a position to win because we could score points through the air when needed. Diaz somehow squeezed every ounce of effort and production out of the offense. They never quit on him even when everyone knew he was getting fired. Yet four games into 2022, the team quit on Mario Cristobal. So you tell me, was Manny Diaz just a better motivator than Mario Cristobal?

Yaaaaaawn;

This quite some story time narrative u’re putting out there. I wish the Mods could pin this for an annual laugh.

So let me get this straight; the team fought for Diaz & have already quit on Mario, huh?

So per you, they didn’t quit on Diaz starting 2-4, yet somehow they’ve quit on Mario after 2-2? Lol. Sheesh.

So u’re giving Miami praise for fighting back being down 20-7 in a losing effort to a 3 win FSU team, yet not giving that same love to Miami for putting up 28 points on offense after the 1st qtr, or rag dogging So Miss after HT? Or fighting tooth & nail w/ TAMU despise lack of O-production?

Imma keep it w/ u, everything u posted was beyond speculative, & thank u for showing ur true colors.

Hey @RVACane found another one. U thought I was bull chitting when I said there’s posters on here who vehemently hated the Mario hire.

 

[Glow]

Saban has gotten his *** steamrolled by Utah as well. Just saying. Not sure if Mario is going to turn this thing around, but **** you guys are ruthless after 4 games.

I just need to know we aren't going to be stuck with plodding pistol caveman neanderbal for his whole tenure and then I can ride with the early growing pains.

Need them to do one of those "Install this spread offense in only 3 days!" programs during this bye week.

 

[TexasCane90]

Another interesting article about Cristobal and Herbert.

Justin Herbert at Oregon: Fitting a quarterback into a system rather than fitting a system to a quarterback

The former Duck star is playing better in the NFL than he did in college and here's why...

www.nbcsports.com

"The Ducks wasted a lot of what he could have brought to the table.

I believe it was the classic case of trying to fit a quarterback into a system rather than fitting a system to the quarterback."

The fact that people were making this criticism about Marios offense a few years ago and now it looks its happening all over again strongly suggests it isn't a coincidence.

TVD is on Herbert’s level??

Yikes

 

[cway313]

OK, cool.

So what happens when u throw the ball 51x vs. attempting 33 rushes & u get beat by 14 at home by a G5 school?

What happens when u throw the ball 41x vs attempting 30 rushes and those 30 rushes were only 50 yrds less in total yardage than what ur QB threw for in the game?

What happens when u go back to watch games & u see receivers wide the fck open, & ur QBs rather throw into double coverage or take deep shots w/ less probability of completion? What happens when guys drop passes that hit them in their hands, chest, helmet?

Again, it’s a lot of biased going on & it’s particularly by those who didn’t want Mario here, w/ u being one of them who tooted the Tom Jurich & Lane Kiffin Horn.

Yes, hold the staff culpable, but how about holding TVD culpable who didn’t even contact his WRs to work this off season. How bout holding him culpable for not going through progressions, moving safeties around, & an inability to read coverage, while staring down WRs. How about this is what happens when u solely rely on one guy vs. building chemistry w/ the entire room.

Not a coach defender, but the same ones who wanted Manny to stay or were rooting for Kiffin to come have been salivating at the “see, I told u so” opportunity, which is what I said was going to happen. I’ve been around this fan base long enough to know many prefer to be right v. patience. Talk all this chit when everything comes to full fruition, & stop looking towards other fan bases to receive confirmation bias.

Naa TVD better than Bryce you must have missed the memo. @supacane can fill you in.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Riley runs a spread offense with tons of Rpo. His offense not only spreads you thin they‘re attacking you vertically and horizontally. He also has OL blocking as if it’s a run on pass plays and vice versa. He’s constantly putting pressure on every level of your defense. On top of that there’s eye candy being thrown around to make the defense more unsure of their assignment. He steals a touchdown or two every game just by eye manipulation.

This is exactly what we should be running here.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

The one thing we do well is drink

 

[Calinative]

What yall fail to realizwe or ask yourself .....WHY he had zero real threats at Oregon when the west coast was wide open...usc down...and him being an elite recruiter. Why dont threats out wide line up to play for him...ill hang up and listen?.

OREGON was the top dog out west for a number of years...whats the excuse?.

Bro Cristobal had 2 years with Herbert - 2018 and 2019 and only one recruiting class. What exact miracle did you expect him to perform for oregon at WR? or are you assigning blame to the previous Oregon coaches? I'm confused as to your entire point...

2017 he was run game coordinator, CoOC, OLine coach. I wouldn't say it's his job to recruit Wr, would you? He becomes HC Dec 2017. Obviously that signing class is February. They whiff at WR. Are we really supposed to assign blame to Mario for that - 2 months on the job, first time as HC since FIU. Then 2018 happens, and Herbert looks great. They end up signing Jalen Hall (.945 rating) - off field issues so was kicked off team, Isaah Crocker (.927 rating), redshirted and hasn't done much. But then he goes into 2019 with Herberts final year.... So he had exactly ONE recruiting class with herbert...

The top Wrs in California in 2018 class were Amon-Ra who was USC who was a stud, Devon Williams who was USC and eventually transfered to Oregon after Herbert left, Marquis Spiker who went to Washington and didn't do ****, Jalen Hall who they landed, Isaah Crocker who they landed, Austin Osborne who went to Washington and again didn't do **** for them and transfered to Bowling Green. Thats the top 6 WRs from California that year.
Plus I don't care how down anyone thinks USC is they always land elite WRs. Oregon will NEVER have the pull USC does, period.

 

[Calinative]

UM had the #26 offense in CFB in 2020 and averaged more than 34 PPG with D'Eriq King at QB.
UM had the #23 offense in CFB in 2021 and averaged more 34 PPG for the 2nd year in a row mostly with TVD at QB. So that's two different QBs with vastly different styles and yet UM nearly had a top 25 offense for consecutive years.

In 2020, UM's top 4 leading receivers were Harley, Brevin Jordan, Mark Pope, and Dee Wiggins. Of all those players, only Jordan was drafted, in the 5th round (he barely sees the field). In 2020, Jordan also missed 3 games and wasn't healthy a good part of the season. Harley was a marginally talented WR but reliable. He ended up as a UDFA (not sure if is still on a roster). Both Pope and Wiggins later transferred and they currently barely play at their respective schools. That's pretty much a bunch of JAGs catching the ball yet it was still near top 25.

In 2021, UM's top 4 leading receivers were Rambo, Harley, Mallory, and K. Smith. Manny Diaz went into the portal to get Rambo because he knew the WR corps was so weak. Harley, as previously mentioned, was a UDFA and as far as I'm aware, he hasn't played a NFL snap. Both Mallory and K. Smith are still on the roster. Outside of Rambo, again a bunch of JAGs.

So how is that Manny Diaz managed to squeeze out near top 25 production for consecutive years from a group of marginally talented pass catchers and with two different QBs, but Mario Cristobal with an even more experienced OL and two experienced QBs on the roster, can't even manage 23 PPG (which is being generous, and is considerably inflated because of blowing up BCU)? You honestly believe there has been a gigantic dropoff in talent at TE/WR since between 2021 and 2022? We had JAGs then, we have JAGs now, the difference is that we had coaches that somehow managed to get far more out of the marginal pass catching talent on the team.

Some real stats for you:

	[REGULAR	OFFENSIVE	METRICS	]	[FOOTBALL	OUTSIDERS	METRICS	(only counts	FBS non garbage)
	Pts/Game	Offensive Plays/Game	Yards/Play	Points/Play	FEI - Fremeau Effeciency Index	ODE - Drive Efficiency)	OTD - Touchdown Rate	OVD - Value Drive Rate	OBD - Busted Drive Rate
2020 Oregon	41st	121st	12th	0.512	30th	28th	23rd	28th	21st
2020 Miami	26th	33rd	39th	0.467	22nd	27th	35th	37th	54th
2021 Oregon	42nd	75th	38th	0.465	13th	15th	15th	24th	36th
2021 Miami	23rd	25th	42nd	0.468	50th	51st	50th	46th	69th

So all this talk about how good our offense was, yet it wasn't even actually as Good as Oregons with Cristobal and his trash *** QBs running his trash *** scheme.. Oh and in 2020 Oregon had the 7th most offensive turnovers in FBS working against them too lol. So what is this a debate about? Is it a debate about Mario Cristobal not having an offensive scheme/identity that he wants to implement not being able to work? Cause clearly that is false. Is this just that with completely worse weapons and a completely different offense and a QB that suddenly can't hit a wide open WR that the offense is worse than last year?

This is simple honestly - we are in a rebuild. If Mario has a couple years to recruit, I will absolutely bet our offense will be far better - even if he kept the current scheme - than it was under Lashlee without a doubt.

@Rellyrell @gogeta4

 

[hydro66]

I'M sick of MARIO and GATTIS. Bad hires AGAIN. I'm done with this staff and team. I'M not waisting MY time ANYMORE

 

[GOCANES05]

You can bring in all hall of fame coaches in every position.
If they do not have the players capable of handling the changes or willing to withstand the adjustment then you got what you you got .

X adjusted to all the changes well WHY he worked his tail off physically and mentally do we really think all our players did this please be honest.

Parrish the same he came in here NEW had to learn everything WELL why is his play the only bright spot.

He worked his tail off the same as X again how many players worked as hard as they do ?

These two are leaders I assure you both invited everyone to join them by the way this team is performing NOT many joined them.

Both aren’t the tallest or fastest BUT they trained physically and mentally and it showed as both our BEST players.

THIS is the issue here plain and really simple.

This coming week all we’ll hear is that everyone is working super hard at what this team SHOULD have done in the off-season and during camp.

One week will NOT fix anything these children are a little late which will STILL cause fir disappointing HUGE losses NC will destroy us .

We’re doing make shift on the fly repairs that cannot withstand the pressure of D-I upper tier play the concrete is thin weak and will still crack and fall apart.

We need 2-3 years of C and Parrish type players to come in to be a DYNASTY once again.

(2) is NOT enough and it shows

GOCANES

 

[BS85]

This is my biggest gripe with Gattis thus far, in our first four games it’s **** near impossible for anyone to claim that Gattis was strategic in his game plan to maximize the skills of our players. Rooster and Parish should catch 2-5 passes a game each ; no creativity with BS12 ; having Mallory be inline as much as he has

We also have no screen game....even old ****** offenses ran screens. Dude sucks so bad.

 

[BS85]

Random thought but if Gattis' offense takes 3 years to really get going, and everyone expected him to be a head coach after 1-2 years, why the **** would you hire him?

Was the plan to run this offense forever with different OCs like Bama?

 

[Cane6]

Random thought but if Gattis' offense takes 3 years to really get going, and everyone expected him to be a head coach after 1-2 years, why the **** would you hire him?

Was the plan to run this offense forever with different OCs like Bama?

Agreed.

If you take away the Broyles award, which I hate that this keeps getting referenced and is meaningless, what tangible components do you reference to justify Gattis being hired?

He’s only been calling plays for a few years
Poor WR development
Forced to relinquish control his last year at Mich

 

[BoxingRobes]

Lol; no, my guy.

Some have said Mario “ruined” Herbert when he became coach. That’s factually incorrect. He did not ruin Herbert, & in fact the offense improved under Mario from Herbert’s Sophomore Yr to his Jr Year. The fact is, Herbert was toting the rock more his Jr Year than his Sophomore Yr.

The second part was Herbert looked pedestrian under Mario. Again, Herbert’s #’s steadily rose under Mario & the two best seasons in Herbert’s career came under Mario. He won two bowl games, went 21-6 under Mario vs. 8-8 under the previous staff.

I’m stating that Mario could’ve show cased Herbert even further in 2019, but while Herbert was show cased in 2018, the team went 9-4. When the offense became more balanced, they went 12-2, so what’s the problem? Was Herbert still a top 10 pick? Yes. Did Herbert win Rose Bowl MVP? Yes. Did Herbert win Sr Bowl MVP? Yes. Was Herbert going to be drafted over Joe Burrow after the season he had? **** No. The only QB debate in question was Tua or Herbert, & that wouldn’t have been a debate had Tua not injured his hip.

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that the reason we had a good passing offense the past two seasons b/c our OC had zero balance? We ranked 97th & 67th the past two yrs in rushing.

So while TVD had some nice #’s, that led to a 6-3 record, & only one of said games came against a formidable opponent with a good pass defense which was NCST. Pitt’s pass defense was worst than ours, & we ranked 102nd in the nation. Every pass defense that TVD lit up to end the season, sans NCSt, was 63rd or below.

Again, u can throw out stats all day long, but one team went 10-3 playing in their conference championship game, missing hella playmakers, while the other team was fully healthy, tossing the rock all over the place going 7-5 (barely).

Mario/Herbert discourse stinks.

"He didn't win the Heisman." is basically the argument.

Also, Marcus Arroyo was his offensive coordinator...Herbert was good enough to get that bum a head coaching job. Big fan of "Mario's offense" as if this man hasn't had numerous offensive coordinators in his career as a HC, with numerous different styles of offense, different offensive output, different emphasis on run/pass, and 3 of them getting head coaching jobs after working with him. Wild.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Agreed.

If you take away the Broyles award, which I hate that this keeps getting referenced and is meaningless, what tangible components do you reference to justify Gattis being hired?

He’s only been calling plays for a few years
Poor WR development
Forced to relinquish control his last year at Mich

Really? Chris Godwin, DaeSean Hamilton, Alabama WRs (Ruggs, Jeudy, Smith, Waddle), Donovan Peoples-Jones, Nico Collins...all coached by him and drafted into the NFL. Jeudy, Ruggs, and Waddle had their best college seasons under him as WR Coach.