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The CIS Portal WR Begging… Is it finally over yet?

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DTP said:
It's up to the OC, who is also the WR coach to design an effective offense given the talent on hand. I don't want to hear "oh we couldn't do anything because we didn't have a first round pick at WR." Bull****. We had two undrafted guys plus the guys we currently have on hand last year and our passing offense was possibly our best ever. In 2020, with a limited passer and the combination of Mark Pope and Dee Wiggins on the outside, we still had an offense that scored 34 points per game.

Make it work.
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Correct. If you have a guy who doesn't have the hands to make contested and acrobatic catches, scheme him to run underneath routes that involve really easy 5 yard throws, something that is nearly impossible to drop. Let all the yardage become YAC. Figure it out. Even George "Hands of Stone" Robinson could have put up some stats if we had just tossed him a few 3 yard lobs.
 
Liberty City El said:
We have 1 WR on our roster with more than 30 catches...

Every single team with a better offense than us is still actively & aggressively adding more talent at WR, Miami isn’t a special case where we can value judge Portal WR’s as if we’re playing with house money.

Canes fans mostly view things from a Homer perspective, so of course everybody is overrated as soon as we don’t get’em, but if the staff is & has been looking for a WR for months now it pretty much indicates they want another piece as well.

But, sometimes learning the hard way is the best way, so for yalls sake I hope Homerism wins out this time.
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“Canes fans mostly view things from a homer perspective” is why I don’t really talk to that many Miami fans in depth about football. It doesn’t make me any less a Miami fan. It just means I’m able to see the trees for the forest. It’s useless for the most part.
 
Allow me to chime in; I’m not saying this is the “direct cause”, but just remember, Rambo was our most productive WR in a min, & he just went undrafted. Harley set UM records, was our 2nd most productive WR, & went undrafted.

Since 2010:
Hankerson (3rd Rd - 2011 out of the league)
Benjamin (4th Rd -2012 out of the league)
Streeter (6th Rd - 2012 out of the league)
Dorsett (1st Rd - 2015 journeymen)
Coley (7th Rd - 2017 out of the league)
Berrios (6th Rd - 2018)
Osborn (5th Rd - 2020)

We’ve had a total of 7 WRs drafted in 12 yrs; out of the 7, only 3 r still in the league. That’s abysmal, & yes, that plays a factor in a decision to be made. We’re going to have to change some narratives around here, & we will, but sometimes it’s good to take a step back w/ an objective view as to y hesitancy may happen at certain positions recruited here.
 
Rellyrell said:
Allow me to chime in; I’m not saying this is the “direct cause”, but just remember, Rambo was our most productive WR in a min, & he just went undrafted. Harley set UM records, was our 2nd most productive WR, & went undrafted.

Since 2010:
Hankerson (3rd Rd - 2011 out of the league)
Benjamin (4th Rd -2012 out of the league)
Streeter (6th Rd - 2012 out of the league)
Dorsett (1st Rd - 2015 journeymen)
Coley (7th Rd - 2017 out of the league)
Berrios (6th Rd - 2018)
Osborn (5th Rd - 2020)

We’ve had a total of 7 WRs drafted in 12 yrs; out of the 7, only 3 r still in the league. That’s abysmal, & yes, that plays a factor in a decision to be made. We’re going to have to change some narratives around here, & we will, but sometimes it’s good to take a step back w/ an objective view as to y hesitancy may happen at certain positions recruited here.
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The market has spoken.
 
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Liberty City El said:
We have 1 WR on our roster with more than 30 catches...

Every single team with a better offense than us is still actively & aggressively adding more talent at WR, Miami isn’t a special case where we can value judge Portal WR’s as if we’re playing with house money.

Canes fans mostly view things from a Homer perspective, so of course everybody is overrated as soon as we don’t get’em, but if the staff is & has been looking for a WR for months now it pretty much indicates they want another piece as well.

But, sometimes learning the hard way is the best way, so for yalls sake I hope Homerism wins out this time.
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You would think people would learn that touching a hot stove burns your hand…
 
Liberty City El said:
Th Rambo/Harley argument would be more valid if we were still running the same offense, but we’re not.

They offered 3 WR’s this Spring from the Portal, Antwane Wells, Jacob Cowing & Jaylon Robinson, as well as tested the waters behind the scenes with several other prospects making offers...

The rational answer is, they swung & miss. Why? There could be several factors, but simply they attempted to land another WR & weren’t able to.

Now, what fans will do is what Krazy & most are doing now, justifying & spinning so as to lessen what potential impact not bringing in a surefire playmaker would have on the offense, by buying high on the current unproven players on the roster. By all means, they very well could play well above their means & prove to be more than good enough for us not to need another WR & none of us know exactly how everything will play out, we’ll all find out at the same time how they perform.

But what’s certain is that the majority of good teams took the same approach to Portal WR’s this offseason; maybe Miami is a shining city on a hill & exceptional to most other teams, but we’ll see...
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Maybe we had predetermined value set for our players and for players in the market.

If we play the NIL game Ruiz told us that he’s not overpaying for players. Value is the value.

And we this staff is a tough one to beat if they really want a player.

If we were that hard on for a WR we would have one. As much as folks will say it’s dead I think The only ones we would pay dearly for were Zay, Xavier and Addison.

We can say what we want but money is finite so we’re rich but not spending to spend.

Offense wise I know what Lashlee did last year was extreme but we can’t assume a WR can’t thrive under Gattis either.

Nico Collins and Donovan Peoples did well and are doing well in the league. They didn’t air it out last year because their number one was hurt, the lost two to the league, and where playing a crap QB and a true frosh, so the offense leaned run because they almost had no choice but to.

It’s not homerish to say we have better healthy talent at every skill position on offense by a wide margin over what Michigan had last year.

To bring home, the fact that we were home run hitting for big WRs and only going so far for kid tier tells me this has a lot to do with pushing the current group, whether via them chasing a true #1 or the threat of someone coming in to take there snaps.

I’m not worried about the talent coming back, we have three juniors and three very talent sophomores to go along with others.

The furver and disappointment over the WR situation is IMO, an overreaction to spring ball, coaches publicly motivating players through the threat of competition and the letdown of missed promise of shiny new toys.

We’re good.
 
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PittsburghCane said:
Maybe we had predetermined value set for our players and for players in the market.

If we play the NIL game Ruiz told us that he’s not overpaying for players. Value is the value.

And we this staff is a tough one to beat if they really want a player.

If we were that hard on for a WR we would have one. As much as folks will say it’s dead I think The only ones we would pay dearly for were Zay, Xavier and Addison.

We can say what we want but money is finite so we’re rich but not spending to spend.

Offense wise I know what Lashlee did last year was extreme but we can’t assume a WR can’t thrive under Gattis either.

Nico Collins and Donovan Peoples did well and are doing well in the league. They didn’t air it out last year because their number one was hurt, the lost two to the league, and where playing a crap QB and a true frosh, so the offense leaned run because they almost had no choice but to.

It’s not homerish to say we have better healthy talent at every skill position on offense by a wide margin over what Michigan had last year.

To bring home, the fact that we were home run hitting for big WRs and only going so far for kid tier tells me this has a lot to do with pushing the current group, whether via them chasing a true #1 or the threat of someone coming in to take there snaps.

I’m not worried about the talent coming back, we have three juniors and three very talent sophomores to go along with others.

The furver and disappointment over the WR situation is IMO, an overreaction to spring ball, coaches publicly motivating players through the threat of competition and the letdown of missed promise of shiny new toys.

We’re good.
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1) I never said a WR can’t thrive under Gattis, my point that I’ve explained probably 100 times now is that it’s a different style that isn’t conducive to the same style that our guys were originally being developed in. Which means there’s an adjustment period that takes places in understanding specifically how to adapt into that system that isn’t as Wide open as the previous offense & puts more onus on the WR to get himself open because the routes are more sophisticated.

2) Nico Collins never had more than 40 catches in a season & Donovan Peoples-Jones best season had 47 catches. Idk if I would call that “doing well” but even KJ Osborn caught 50 passes with Jarren Williams as his QB in the vaunted Dan Enox offense, I’m not so sure I would call Nico & Donovan’s #’s voluminous. And not to mention, in the 3 seasons he was at Michigan as the OC/WR’s coach he didn’t produce not one 1,000yd WR & the Slot Ronnie Bell was their primary guy because the offense is designed to work the middle of the field before anything; I already did an in-depth breakdown of the difference of the offensive schemes & why I’ve been saying that the TE’s & Restrepo are going to absolutely eat in this offense because it’s specifically tailored to them.

Hence, why the need for a true #1 outside WR has become an issue on the docket because we have a lack of returning production on the outside & pretty glaring obvious need for an emergent primary WR at X or Z, while having to depend on unknown commodities to perform at level they haven’t shown yet.

I’ve explained what the crux of the issue is way too many times now at this point & I quickly realized I made a huge mistake in even being trapped into having this discussion more than once lol.

So, I’ll just put it like this... We have a bunch of guys with talent & potential that haven’t done it full time yet; Hopefully they do when the season comes around, if not, then fck it we’ll just do the same thing all over again next season lol.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Allow me to chime in; I’m not saying this is the “direct cause”, but just remember, Rambo was our most productive WR in a min, & he just went undrafted. Harley set UM records, was our 2nd most productive WR, & went undrafted.

Since 2010:
Hankerson (3rd Rd - 2011 out of the league)
Benjamin (4th Rd -2012 out of the league)
Streeter (6th Rd - 2012 out of the league)
Dorsett (1st Rd - 2015 journeymen)
Coley (7th Rd - 2017 out of the league)
Berrios (6th Rd - 2018)
Osborn (5th Rd - 2020)

We’ve had a total of 7 WRs drafted in 12 yrs; out of the 7, only 3 r still in the league. That’s abysmal, & yes, that plays a factor in a decision to be made. We’re going to have to change some narratives around here, & we will, but sometimes it’s good to take a step back w/ an objective view as to y hesitancy may happen at certain positions recruited here.
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Travis Benjamin was with the niners last year and in the league for 9 years but your point still stands.
 
yeyo said:
Travis Benjamin was with the niners last year and in the league for 9 years but your point still stands.
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Yeah, T Benjamin kept himself on the field w/ that speed; became a commodity in the return game. Was actually shocked he didn’t have a contract anywhere, but yeah man…it’s been pretty barren for the school once considered WRU
 
Liberty City El said:
1) I never said a WR can’t thrive under Gattis, my point that I’ve explained probably 100 times now is that it’s a different style that isn’t conducive to the same style that our guys were originally being developed in. Which means there’s an adjustment period that takes places in understanding specifically how to adapt into that system that isn’t as Wide open as the previous offense & puts more onus on the WR to get himself open because the routes are more sophisticated.

2) Nico Collins never had more than 40 catches in a season & Donovan Peoples-Jones best season had 47 catches. Idk if I would call that “doing well” but even KJ Osborn caught 50 passes with Jarren Williams as his QB in the vaunted Dan Enox offense, I’m not so sure I would call Nico & Donovan’s #’s voluminous. And not to mention, in the 3 seasons he was at Michigan as the OC/WR’s coach he didn’t produce not one 1,000yd WR & the Slot Ronnie Bell was their primary guy because the offense is designed to work the middle of the field before anything; I already did an in-depth breakdown of the difference of the offensive schemes & why I’ve been saying that the TE’s & Restrepo are going to absolutely eat in this offense because it’s specifically tailored to them.

Hence, why the need for a true #1 outside WR has become an issue on the docket because we have a lack of returning production on the outside & pretty glaring obvious need for an emergent primary WR at X or Z, while having to depend on unknown commodities to perform at level they haven’t shown yet.

I’ve explained what the crux of the issue is way too many times now at this point & I quickly realized I made a huge mistake in even being trapped into having this discussion more than once lol.

So, I’ll just put it like this... We have a bunch of guys with talent & potential that haven’t done it full time yet; Hopefully they do when the season comes around, if not, then fck it we’ll just do the same thing all over again next season lol.
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Fam, I here you. And just like EVERYONE here, I trust your opinion. But we have to consider the facts rather than try to prove each other wrong.

1) Poor choice of words on my part - we, as a board, shouldn’t assume failure because of youth and experience. We have very good rout runners already that have high ceilings, so I’m just positioning on the side of belief in our guys in Gattis’ offense. You and I know these cats aren’t slobs. Just like any college WR they need a jugs machine.

I agreed that it would be a benefit to have another experienced and proven receiver, but I also trust in the natural maturation of college athletes. You stack chips and recruit for this reason. And Gattis is a **** good WR coach.

I still think a lot of this posturing is to create competition, similar to Likens in the middle of 2020.

BIG POINT: I don’t understand how you can say what it’ll be while leaving out consideration that 2020 was a shortened Covid year with a mid, if talented, QB and the 2021 2021 QB situation was almost Navy bad.

2) Did well is just that, WELL. Not great, exceptional or extraordinary.

Well.

40 catch’s but you left out 729 yards and 7 TDs. Doing well is present tense in that Nico got drafted in the third and Donovan Peoples in the 6th and there both probably going to be NFL starters this season.

EDIT:

Which seasons would you take at WR?

37 729
48 758
50 547

Catches don’t mean as much if your offense doesn’t get you down the field.

Again, considering the poorer QB situation last year (Jarren might’ve been a slight upgrade) and 2020, and that 2020 was only what 6 games? Yeah stats didn’t get piled up.

The one season Gattis had noteworthy play at QB (Shea Patterson, 56% 3000 yards, 23 tuddies), the WRs produced. And that was year one. Two 700 yard receivers and two others over 300.

With a talent pool that limited what you could do outside of WR in the passing game.

Which tells me his offense wasn’t a hard one to learn, and that if you have the most important piece at QB, you’ll be just fine.

We don’t just have a QB, we have a Hulk.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Yeah, T Benjamin kept himself on the field w/ that speed; became a commodity in the return game. Was actually shocked he didn’t have a contract anywhere, but yeah man…it’s been pretty barren for the school once considered WRU
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The Ron Dugans curse.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Allow me to chime in; I’m not saying this is the “direct cause”, but just remember, Rambo was our most productive WR in a min, & he just went undrafted. Harley set UM records, was our 2nd most productive WR, & went undrafted.

Since 2010:
Hankerson (3rd Rd - 2011 out of the league)
Benjamin (4th Rd -2012 out of the league)
Streeter (6th Rd - 2012 out of the league)
Dorsett (1st Rd - 2015 journeymen)
Coley (7th Rd - 2017 out of the league)
Berrios (6th Rd - 2018)
Osborn (5th Rd - 2020)

We’ve had a total of 7 WRs drafted in 12 yrs; out of the 7, only 3 r still in the league. That’s abysmal, & yes, that plays a factor in a decision to be made. We’re going to have to change some narratives around here, & we will, but sometimes it’s good to take a step back w/ an objective view as to y hesitancy may happen at certain positions recruited here.
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I believe you could also associate our decline with WR's to the premier guys leaving town to go play with Alabama (other SEC schools), Oklahoma, Clemson, etc. It's not like we've been getting the best talent for the position. Not an overnight fix and we're going to have to win some of those battles to keep the best ones home. Would have loved to seen how Richards would have developed had he not gotten hurt. Believe he would have been a great one for us and a great pro.
 
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