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The Alliance votes down CFP expansion…

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Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
The vote was 8-3 in favor of expansion, but it has to be unanimous to change things mid contract So it is almost certainly passing in a few years. So the acc big 10 and pac12 are the only ones against it. Not sure why you think anyone is blindly approving anything. Acc revenue would absolutely 100% not be reduced if the playoff expanded, it would increase substantially. And it’s ironic that you trust the acc’s judgement in this situation when it’s that same judgement that has caused our steadily decreasing power.
And ND’s contract is only for $15m a year. That’s nothing special today. If we were simply a better conference, and not rely solely on Clemson, we would have more bargaining power
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Well if in a few years it expands I hope that a stipulation is put in to have no more than two teams from a conference. Otherwise get ready for three to four SEC teams in the playoff every year.
 
firstandcanes said:
Well if in a few years it expands I hope that a stipulation is put in to have no more than two teams from a conference. Otherwise get ready for three to four SEC teams in the playoff every year.
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The playoff is about finding the best teams so that’s a dumb stipulation under that premise. The sec would have had 3 teams this year and so would the big ten if it was 12 teams. Would you rather see BYU or Oregon instead of ole miss just to satisfy a quota? No thanks
 
Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
The playoff is about finding the best teams so that’s a dumb stipulation under that premise. The sec would have had 3 teams this year and so would the big ten if it was 12 teams. Would you rather see BYU or Oregon instead of ole miss just to satisfy a quota? No thanks
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Well I definitely don't want to see half the teams be SEC. If it's going to be that, why have a playoff to begin with? Just crown the SEC champs and be done with it.

Teams like Miami, Florida St.( hate saying that), Michigan, USC, and Nebraska need to be relevant again every year to quit with the SEC love fest the media puts out year in and year out.
 
Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
The vote was 8-3 in favor of expansion, but it has to be unanimous to change things mid contract So it is almost certainly passing in a few years. So the acc big 10 and pac12 are the only ones against it. Not sure why you think anyone is blindly approving anything. Acc revenue would absolutely 100% not be reduced if the playoff expanded, it would increase substantially. And it’s ironic that you trust the acc’s judgement in this situation when it’s that same judgement that has caused our steadily decreasing power.
And ND’s contract is only for $15m a year. That’s nothing special today. If we were simply a better conference, and not rely solely on Clemson, we would have more bargaining power
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Of course not relying solely on Clemson would be ideal, but we are not in that situation. The ACC has to play the hand it currently has and make decisions accordingly.

No one is saying the ACC's revenue would be reduced with playoff expansion. What you can say is it will not go up as fast as the SEC or Big 10 (to a lesser degree) as those conferences will typically have at least 3 conference members in the playoff each year, just based on committee voting and AP/Coaches Polling which basically sets the template for the first couple of weeks of committee voting.

Also, I don't trust the ACC's judgement, I just happen to agree with them on this issue. You are right, their decision to sign up for such a long term TV deal led them to this point. Now, they shouldn't make it worse by rubber stamping a playoff expansion that would eliminate the only bargaining chip they have to bring in ND, which would allow for TV deal renegotiation. Without bringing in ND, the TV deal will not be able to be corrected until 2036.

One thing to keep in mind with ND, their TV deal is for their 6-7 home games each year, not their entire content. If they sign on as an ACC member, the ACC would have at least 10 games of their games to negotiate with - 8 ACC games and 2 home OOC games (3 in some years). It would provide significant $$.

I really don't see the ACC staying as a major conference in 10 years without ND joining.
 
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firstandcanes said:
Well I definitely don't want to see half the teams be SEC. If it's going to be that, why have a playoff to begin with? Just crown the SEC champs and be done with it.

Teams like Miami, Florida St.( hate saying that), Michigan, USC, and Nebraska need to be relevant again every year to quit with the SEC love fest the media puts out year in and year out.
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The conf champ auto qualifiers mitigate that. No one outside the top 4 is winning it anyways. It’s just for more access to the playoff, more games and more money.
 
Hurracanes said:
Good point. Unfortunately, I have zero faith the idiots running the ACC would be able to close on ND.
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I agree with you unfortunately, but I think bringing in ND is the only way the ACC would be able to save itself as a major conference. Playoff expansion would effectively kill that last bit of hope.
 
CaneinBroward said:
Of course not relying solely on Clemson would be ideal, but we are not in that situation. The ACC has to play the hand it currently has and make decisions accordingly.

No one is saying the ACC's revenue would be reduced with playoff expansion. What you can say is it will not go up as fast as the SEC or Big 10 (to a lesser degree) as those conferences will typically have at least 3 conference members in the playoff each year, just based on committee voting and AP/Coaches Polling which basically sets the template for the first couple of weeks of committee voting.

Also, I don't trust the ACC's judgement, I just happen to agree with them on this issue. You are right, their decision to sign up for such a long term TV deal led them to this point. Now, they shouldn't make it worse by rubber stamping a playoff expansion that would eliminate the only bargaining chip they have to bring in ND, which would allow for TV deal renegotiation. Without bringing in ND, the TV deal will not be able to be corrected until 2036.

One thing to keep in mind with ND, their TV deal is for their 6-7 home games each year, not their entire content. If they sign on as an ACC member, the ACC would have at least 10 games of their games to negotiate with - 8 ACC games and 2 home OOC games (3 in some years). It would provide significant $$.

I really don't see the ACC staying as a major conference in 10 years without ND joining.
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ND is not the key to increased revenue and we will never match the sec or big ten. They will never join anyway as long as they have a seat at the table which they do. Plus they are already launching their own apps and the like to generate revenue, making it easier to stay Independent. The acc has followed the big ten and sec on almost everything from the channel to expansion and have to squabble for scraps by then. We were a decade behind the big ten getting a network and aren’t catching up. Playoff expansion won’t be demise of any conference either. If anything, it will keep them afloat because there are auto qualifiers. Acc is in a much better position than the big 12 and pac12 so the sky isn’t falling
 
CaneinBroward said:
I agree with you unfortunately, but I think bringing in ND is the only way the ACC would be able to save itself as a major conference. Playoff expansion would effectively kill that last bit of hope.
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ACC needs to tell ND to join or GTFO in other sports.
 
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CaneinBroward said:
Of course not relying solely on Clemson would be ideal, but we are not in that situation. The ACC has to play the hand it currently has and make decisions accordingly.

No one is saying the ACC's revenue would be reduced with playoff expansion. What you can say is it will not go up as fast as the SEC or Big 10 (to a lesser degree) as those conferences will typically have at least 3 conference members in the playoff each year, just based on committee voting and AP/Coaches Polling which basically sets the template for the first couple of weeks of committee voting.

Also, I don't trust the ACC's judgement, I just happen to agree with them on this issue. You are right, their decision to sign up for such a long term TV deal led them to this point. Now, they shouldn't make it worse by rubber stamping a playoff expansion that would eliminate the only bargaining chip they have to bring in ND, which would allow for TV deal renegotiation. Without bringing in ND, the TV deal will not be able to be corrected until 2036.

One thing to keep in mind with ND, their TV deal is for their 6-7 home games each year, not their entire content. If they sign on as an ACC member, the ACC would have at least 10 games of their games to negotiate with - 8 ACC games and 2 home OOC games (3 in some years). It would provide significant $$.

I really don't see the ACC staying as a major conference in 10 years without ND joining.
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I also think you’re drastically overestimating Payouts for playoff teams. It’s $6m per team and that goes to the conference, so the sec for 12m extra this year, the big ten And aac got 6m. Even for the sec, that’s less than 1m per school…nice but not a game changing amount
 
With all the blowouts we still see in the semi-finals, why would we need to to expand beyond the 4 we already have?
 
AutoCANE said:
To me it’s less about giving more teams a chance at the crown than it is about maximizing meaningful games for more teams to keep the erosion of the sport in check.
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Fair point. I only care about that stuff when it involves Miami though. My pov is, make the playoffs so you don't have to worry about that.
 
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Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
I also think you’re drastically overestimating Payouts for playoff teams. It’s $6m per team and that goes to the conference, so the sec for 12m extra this year, the big ten And aac got 6m. Even for the sec, that’s less than 1m per school…nice but not a game changing amount
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No, but it accumulates over time. As an example, in the 8 years of the college playoff, if there were 12 teams selected each year, the SEC would have had 24 participants, the Big 10 would have had 23, the Big XII 15, ACC 13, and Pac12 12. The ACC would have had 2 fewer participants than the Big XII who has 4 fewer members and just 1 more than the PAC 12 who has 2 fewer members. ND would have had 4 appearances.

Look, the ACC is considered a basketball conference (and rightly so since Miami, VT, and FSU have not held up their ends of the bargain). It will have to deal with negative perceptions from AP voters and committee voters in comparison with SEC teams whose losses are not held against them nearly as much.

Again, my biggest concern is not the playoff, but on the true revenue generator - TV. BEFORE Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC, the SEC teams get $40 million a year just from TV, the Big 10 gets $31 million a year from TV (soon up for re-negotiation) meanwhile the ACC gets about $17 million per team for TV (locked in until 2036 without expansion). Basically, those 2 conferences are getting twice as much money each year just from TV, forget about the fact most of their teams play in stadiums 80k and higher where the ACC has 2 schools that fit that size - Clemson and FSU.

To me, the only expansion candidate that would bring in more money per school is ND. As I stated before, it wouldn't bring the ACC to match the SEC or Big 10, but it would get the ACC much closer. The ACC is not poaching any SEC or Big 10 teams, but will be poached as the Grant of Rights value goes down with each year going by.

The ACC needs to finally be proactive and hopefully stave off falling too far behind the SEC and Big 10 to compete. If they do nothing, they will guarantee themselves that fate.
 
Dan E. Dangerously said:
Fair point. I only care about that stuff when it involves Miami though. My pov is, make the playoffs so you don't have to worry about that.
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I hear you brother - while I agree for the most part, I do enjoy spending the week between Christmas and New Year’s watching quality games. It’s therapeutic for me.

If we get our talent level back to where it should be…and say we don’t make the playoff in a given year for whatever reason - when half the team opts out that’s when it will hit home.

Just my $0.02
 
No need to expand
The gap from top 2 to number 5-8 is usually pretty massive
The games would be blow outs
Most year it’s clear there’s only 1 or 2 teams that are just better than everyone else
 
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