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Talent maybe a reason why UM continues to struggle.

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Supercane85

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I posted this under my Cityboy4life82 handle on the other board and decided to post it over here to give some insight on why UM is struggling.

Time Frame:

2010 was Randy's last recruiting class under his tenure

Golden was hired on December 12, 2010 and had only weeks to put together the 2011 recruiting class.

NCAA investigations hit in 2011. Yahoo and Media outlets flooded the airways with negative press.

You can look at this several ways but I will let you guys decide how you want to process this information. Randy's final recruiting class and the NCAA investigation plus the consistent bad press were more devastating than any sanctions.

Is it fair to blame Golden and staff for those circumstances or is the staff failing to properly evaluate players? Regardless of the circumstances our success rate in our recruiting classes are not very good. We have a high number of bust.

Keep in mind that most of the players in those classes were 3 stars or considered reaches. They are playing exactly how they were rated out of high school (JAG). So it may not be all player development because they are reaching their max potential but unfortunately for UM that is not good enough.


Look at the information and dissect it however you like. Look forward to hearing some responses. Between the 2010, 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes 83 players signed. Out of those 83 players only 33 players have played meaningful downs. Of those 33 that have contributed only a handful were impact players.

2010 Recruiting Class

Latwan Anderson - No Longer on the team
Jeffrey Brown -No Longer on the team
Delmar Taylor- No Longer on the team
Keion Payne - No longer on the team
Storm Johnson - No Longer on the team
Travis Williams - No longer on team
Devont'a Davis - No longer on team
Andrew Tallman - No longer on team
Kevin Nelson - No longer on team
Darion Hall - No longer on team
Jermy Davis - No longer on team
Tavadus Glenn - No longer on team
Seantrel Henderson
Asante Cleveland
Jimmy Gaines -
Kelvin Cain
Brandon Linder
Jermaine Barton
Chase Ford
Allen Hurns
Eduardo Clements
David Perry
Tyrone Cornileus -
Stephen Morris
Clive Walford
Kacy Rogers
Maurice Hagens
Jonathan Feliciano
Shane McDormott
Malcole Bunche

2011 Recruiting Class

Junior Alexis - No longer on team
Jalen Grimble - No longer on team
Eddie Johnson - No longer on team
Gionni Paul - No longer on team
Ricardo Williams - No longer on team
Antonio Kinard - No longer on team
Thomas Finnie - No longer with team
Hunter Wells
Thurston Armbrister
Darius Smith
Corey King
Rashawn Scott
Denzel Perryman
Dallas Crawford
Matt Goudis
Taylor Gadbois
Dalton Botts
Olsen Pierre
Anthony Chickillo
Phillip Dorsett
Herb Waters

2012 Recruiting Class

Robert Lockhardt -No longer on team
Dequan Ivery - No longer on team
Jacoby Briscoe - No longer on team
Gabe Terry - No longer on team
Danny Dillard - No longer on team
Josh Witt - No longer on team
Vernon Davis - No longer on team
Preston Dewey - No longer on team
Angelo jean-Louis - No longer on team
Jontavious Carter - No longer on team
David Thompson - No longer on team
Jawand Bllue
Tracy Howard
Antonio Crawford
Dean Busg
Tyriq McCord
Ladarius Gunter
Danny Isidora
Malcom Lewis
rayshawn Jenkins
Earl Moore
Nate Dortch
Jelani Hamilton
D'Mauri Jones
Dwayne Hoilett
Jake O'Donnell
Larry Hope
Ereck Flowers
Raphael Kirby
Gray Crow
Taylor Gadbois

Contributed (Meaningful downs) I was being generous with labeling some as contributed. I am sure most would move them over to the non factors.

Seantrel Henderson
Asante Cleveland
Brandon Linder
Chase Ford
Allen Hurns
Jimmy Gaines
Eduardo Clements
Tyrone Cornileus
Stephen Morris
Clive Walford
Kacy Rogers
Maurice Hagens
Jonathan Feliciano
Shane McDormott
Malcole Bunche
Thurston Armbrister
Darius Smith
Denzel Perryman
Dallas Crawford
Olsen Pierre
Anthony Chickillo
Phillip Dorsett
Tracy Howard
Antonio Crawford
Dean BusH
Tyriq McCord
Ladarius Gunter
Danny Isidora
Malcom Lewis
rayshawn Jenkins
Ereck Flowers
Raphael Kirby
Duke Johnson


None Factors

Kelvin Cain
Jermaine Barton
David Perry
Hunter Wells
Corey King
Rashawn Scott
Matt Goudis
Taylor Gadbois
Dalton Botts
Jawand Bllue
Earl Moore
Nate Dortch
Herb Waters
Jelani Hamilton
D'Mauri Jones
Dwayne Hoilett
Jake O'Donnell
Larry Hope
Gray Crow
Taylor Gadbois
 
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Supercane85 said:
I posted this under my Cityboy4life82 handle on the other board and decided to post it over here to give some insight on why UM is struggling.

Time Frame:

2010 was Randy's last recruiting class under his tenure

Golden was hired on December 12, 2010 and had only weeks to put together the 2011 recruiting class.

NCAA investigations hit in 2011. Yahoo and Media outlets flooded the airways with negative press.

You can look at this several ways but I will let you guys decide how you want to process this information. Randy's final recruiting class and the NCAA investigation plus the consistent bad press were more devastating than any sanctions.

Is it fair to blame Golden and staff for those circumstances or is the staff failing to properly evaluate players? Regardless of the circumstances our success rate in our recruiting classes are not very good. We have a high number of bust.

Keep in mind that most of the players in those classes were 3 stars or considered reaches. They are playing exactly how they were rated out of high school (JAG). So it may not be all player development because they are reaching their max potential but unfortunately for UM that is not good enough.


Look at the information and dissect it however you like. Look forward to hearing some responses. Between the 2010, 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes 83 players signed. Out of those 83 players only 33 players have played meaningful downs. Of those 33 that have contributed only a handful were impact players.

2010 Recruiting Class

Latwan Anderson - No Longer on the team
Jeffrey Brown -No Longer on the team
Delmar Taylor- No Longer on the team
Keion Payne - No longer on the team
Storm Johnson - No Longer on the team
Travis Williams - No longer on team
Devont'a Davis - No longer on team
Andrew Tallman - No longer on team
Kevin Nelson - No longer on team
Darion Hall - No longer on team
Jermy Davis - No longer on team
Tavadus Glenn - No longer on team
Seantrel Henderson
Asante Cleveland
Jimmy Gaines -
Kelvin Cain
Brandon Linder
Jermaine Barton
Chase Ford
Allen Hurns
Eduardo Clements
David Perry
Tyrone Cornileus -
Stephen Morris
Clive Walford
Kacy Rogers
Maurice Hagens
Jonathan Feliciano
Shane McDormott
Malcole Bunche

2011 Recruiting Class

Junior Alexis - No longer on team
Jalen Grimble - No longer on team
Eddie Johnson - No longer on team
Gionni Paul - No longer on team
Ricardo Williams - No longer on team
Antonio Kinard - No longer on team
Thomas Finnie - No longer with team
Hunter Wells
Thurston Armbrister
Darius Smith
Corey King
Rashawn Scott
Denzel Perryman
Dallas Crawford
Matt Goudis
Taylor Gadbois
Dalton Botts
Olsen Pierre
Anthony Chickillo
Phillip Dorsett

2012 Recruiting Class

Robert Lockhardt -No longer on team
Dequan Ivery - No longer on team
Jacoby Briscoe - No longer on team
Gabe Terry - No longer on team
Danny Dillard - No longer on team
Josh Witt - No longer on team
Vernon Davis - No longer on team
Preston Dewey - No longer on team
Angelo jean-Louis - No longer on team
Jontavious Carter - No longer on team
David Thompson - No longer on team
Jawand Bllue
Tracy Howard
Antonio Crawford
Dean Busg
Tyriq McCord
Ladarius Gunter
Danny Isidora
Malcom Lewis
rayshawn Jenkins
Earl Moore
Nate Dortch
Herb Waters
Jelani Hamilton
D'Mauri Jones
Dwayne Hoilett
Jake O'Donnell
Larry Hope
Ereck Flowers
Raphael Kirby
Gray Crow
Taylor Gadbois

Contributed (Meaningful downs) I was being generous with labeling some as contributed. I am sure most would move them over to the non factors.

Seantrel Henderson
Asante Cleveland
Brandon Linder
Chase Ford
Allen Hurns
Jimmy Gaines
Eduardo Clements
Tyrone Cornileus
Stephen Morris
Clive Walford
Kacy Rogers
Maurice Hagens
Jonathan Feliciano
Shane McDormott
Malcole Bunche
Thurston Armbrister
Darius Smith
Denzel Perryman
Dallas Crawford
Olsen Pierre
Anthony Chickillo
Phillip Dorsett
Tracy Howard
Antonio Crawford
Dean BusH
Tyriq McCord
Ladarius Gunter
Danny Isidora
Malcom Lewis
rayshawn Jenkins
Ereck Flowers
Raphael Kirby
Duke Johnson


None Factors

Kelvin Cain
Jermaine Barton
David Perry
Hunter Wells
Corey King
Rashawn Scott
Matt Goudis
Taylor Gadbois
Dalton Botts
Jawand Bllue
Earl Moore
Nate Dortch
Herb Waters
Jelani Hamilton
D'Mauri Jones
Dwayne Hoilett
Jake O'Donnell
Larry Hope
Gray Crow
Taylor Gadbois
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Ok, we all know that we've had a ton of attrition and a lot of bust. But that's no excuse to get blown out and lose to Duke, VaTech, UVa before this year, Loserville.

Would you say that we have as much talent as UCF..well they hung with Loserville and beat them. what about Cincy?

Yes we don't have a lot of talent but we have enough not go get curb stomped by average teams.
 
I go back and forth on this so much since Saturday. Are you telling me we don't have enough talent to at least be competitive with Louisville? Or enough talent to beat Duke and VTech (at home)? I think our defensive scheme is awful. I think that Coley has some learning to do on his play calling. But the truth is, we should have won 10 games this year on talent alone. At the very least, we should have been competitive. We are like 2-6 against top 25 teams and have been outscored by a combined 200 points. We have much more talent than that! We have a scheme that does no utilize our players. I saw David Gilbert lined up over UL's best receiver in the slot. Are you ****ting me?? That guy was also a 2nd Team All B1G DE...so he's not talented? **** is ridiculous
 
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casualcane said:
So, FSU goes undefeated with this staff?
Click to expand...

When you look at statistically FSU has recruited very well in their last 3 to 4 recruiting classes. It also helps that those players where highly rated but FSU is also getting great production from the majority of those players within those recruiting classes.

Unfortunately for UM our 2010, 2011 and 2012 (Not a complete waste) have more bust then plays made on the field.

Coaching does have a huge impact on results so you are correct in that instance. If we were just speaking statistically I would be confident in saying that Golden would win with FSU's talent. I do get what you are saying that our staff has not proved it on the field
 
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I agree that Coach D's defensive style inspires very few but he is lacking talent and depth on the defensive side of the ball across the board. That is becoming Al's biggest problem - the lack of talent and depth on defense.

A question to the "Fire Coach D" crowd: do you honestly believe if he is fired Al will bring in a Jim Johnson hellfire blitz/man to man defense? The defensive scheme we play is an extension of the head coach's overall philosophy. Coach D is running the defense Al wants him to run. Al was the DC at Virginia under Al Groh and he prefers Groh's defensive style. I don't see Al doing a 180 degree philosophy change overnight so you may see a coach that can adjust quicker but if you are expecting to see a different overall schematic change you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.
 
So Herb Waters is labeled a non-factor, seems legit. Kid was only the 2nd most consistent WR on our team. Coley will be the man next year though.
 
We don't have the talent to be great but we have the talent to be more competitive than we are. That much is obvious.

The big issue here to me is the attrition. When Golden first came on I was all for the purging. Cleanse the team, get rid of the dead weight and bring in better talent. But the attrition hasn't really let up. And we didn't just cull dead weight, we lost a lot of really good players. At this point it's a huge red flag that indicates major problems with the staff and program.
 
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jmccomber5 said:
I go back and forth on this so much since Saturday. Are you telling me we don't have enough talent to at least be competitive with Louisville? Or enough talent to beat Duke and VTech (at home)? I think our defensive scheme is awful. I think that Coley has some learning to do on his play calling. But the truth is, we should have won 10 games this year on talent alone. At the very least, we should have been competitive. We are like 2-6 against top 25 teams and have been outscored by a combined 200 points. We have much more talent than that! We have a scheme that does no utilize our players. I saw David Gilbert lined up over UL's best receiver in the slot. Are you ****ting me?? That guy was also a 2nd Team All B1G DE...so he's not talented? **** is ridiculous
Click to expand...

There is talent and there is Bama, FSU, Oregon Talent. When I look at the players that have contributed I don't see (Bama) talent.

In your opinion would Gilbert start at Bama, FSU, Ohio State or Oregon?
 
terdferguson said:
We don't have the talent to be great but we have the talent to be more competitive than we are. That much is obvious.

The big issue here to me is the attrition. When Golden first came on I was all for the purging. Cleanse the team, get rid of the dead weight and bring in better talent. But the attrition hasn't really let up. And we didn't just cull dead weight, we lost a lot of really good players. At this point it's a huge red flag that indicates major problems with the staff and program.
Click to expand...

I agree the attrition is not letting up. I am hoping that the staff gambled on high risk kids because they were left no choice (NCAA investigation)

We can't afford to have half the class leave without contributing or bust anymore.
 
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jmccomber5 said:
I go back and forth on this so much since Saturday. Are you telling me we don't have enough talent to at least be competitive with Louisville? Or enough talent to beat Duke and VTech (at home)? I think our defensive scheme is awful. I think that Coley has some learning to do on his play calling. But the truth is, we should have won 10 games this year on talent alone. At the very least, we should have been competitive. We are like 2-6 against top 25 teams and have been outscored by a combined 200 points. We have much more talent than that! We have a scheme that does no utilize our players. I saw David Gilbert lined up over UL's best receiver in the slot. Are you ****ting me?? That guy was also a 2nd Team All B1G DE...so he's not talented? **** is ridiculous
Click to expand...

That ****es me off more than anything else. Why are we not matching up with teams? We never use nickel and dime packages. the defense is honestly a joke this is not D-1 level. I love Al Golden, I think he can be a great coach. The HC is only as a good as his assistants. Al Golden's job to motivate, hire a great staff and close big time recruits. He's done 2/3 and if he doesn't get 3/3 he won't get a chance to here.
 
Supercane85 said:
terdferguson said:
We don't have the talent to be great but we have the talent to be more competitive than we are. That much is obvious.

The big issue here to me is the attrition. When Golden first came on I was all for the purging. Cleanse the team, get rid of the dead weight and bring in better talent. But the attrition hasn't really let up. And we didn't just cull dead weight, we lost a lot of really good players. At this point it's a huge red flag that indicates major problems with the staff and program.
Click to expand...

I agree the attrition is not letting up. I am hoping that the staff gambled on high risk kids because they were left no choice (NCAA investigation)

We can't afford to have half the class leave without contributing or bust anymore.
Click to expand...

but the NCAAs effect was just that....it forced us to go after higher risk recruits.....just as Goldens initial class was full of body grabs. no doubt in my mind.

talentwise, if anything the Shapiro effect is getting underplayed on this board.
 
Supercane85 said:
jmccomber5 said:
I go back and forth on this so much since Saturday. Are you telling me we don't have enough talent to at least be competitive with Louisville? Or enough talent to beat Duke and VTech (at home)? I think our defensive scheme is awful. I think that Coley has some learning to do on his play calling. But the truth is, we should have won 10 games this year on talent alone. At the very least, we should have been competitive. We are like 2-6 against top 25 teams and have been outscored by a combined 200 points. We have much more talent than that! We have a scheme that does no utilize our players. I saw David Gilbert lined up over UL's best receiver in the slot. Are you ****ting me?? That guy was also a 2nd Team All B1G DE...so he's not talented? **** is ridiculous
Click to expand...

There is talent and there is Bama, FSU, Oregon Talent. When I look at the players that have contributed I don't see (Bama) talent.

In your opinion would Gilbert start at Bama, FSU, Ohio State or Oregon?
Click to expand...

We are not on Bama, Oregon or FSU's level right now. The worst thing that ever happened to our fan base was FSU having a NC type year because we are now going to compare our program to theirs. If you expect us to be on Bama's level right now, you are out of your **** mind. Bama, FSU, Oregon have all recruited very well and have had marked success or continual improvement. Our fan base refusesto accept where we are coming from as a program. In the last 8 years (two class cycles) we have had 3 head coaches, multiple coordinators, attrition, an investigation that almost crippled the program and a myriad of other problems. We are not Alabama or FSU. ...

That being said, we ARE better than this ****. We have the talent to win the ACC Coastal. It's not exactly the SEC West here. We have the talent to not give up leads to Duke. We have the talent to NOT get blown out by every ranked team we play. The biggest thing when watching Miami play is we get beat by the SAME **** every game: underneath routes, backs to the flats, screens, short curls against our cover 3 corners, cut backs on zone runs, intermediate seams, QB read option keep....this is all scheme in my opinion. I can't remember one time this year we played a nickel package. Or played Bush in the slot. Every blitz looks the same: poorly timed and slow. We run the same Twist stunt and send our 220 lbs DE into the interior of their line. We create no interior pressure. We have DTs dropping into zone coverage. Our best position is probably corner, but we can't have Gunter, Artie, Crawford and Howard on the field against some of this spread? I just can't buy that we play the best scheme for our personnel.
 
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jmccomber5 said:
Supercane85 said:
jmccomber5 said:
I go back and forth on this so much since Saturday. Are you telling me we don't have enough talent to at least be competitive with Louisville? Or enough talent to beat Duke and VTech (at home)? I think our defensive scheme is awful. I think that Coley has some learning to do on his play calling. But the truth is, we should have won 10 games this year on talent alone. At the very least, we should have been competitive. We are like 2-6 against top 25 teams and have been outscored by a combined 200 points. We have much more talent than that! We have a scheme that does no utilize our players. I saw David Gilbert lined up over UL's best receiver in the slot. Are you ****ting me?? That guy was also a 2nd Team All B1G DE...so he's not talented? **** is ridiculous
Click to expand...

There is talent and there is Bama, FSU, Oregon Talent. When I look at the players that have contributed I don't see (Bama) talent.

In your opinion would Gilbert start at Bama, FSU, Ohio State or Oregon?
Click to expand...

We are not on Bama, Oregon or FSU's level. The worst thing that ever happened to our fan base was FSU having a NC type year because we are now going to compare our program to theirs. If you expect us to be on Bama's level right now, you are out of your **** mind. Bama, FSU, Oregon have all recruited very well and have had marked success or continual improvement. Our fan base refusesto accept where we are coming from as a program. In the last 8 years (two class cycles) we have had 3 head coaches, multiple coordinators, attrition, an investigation that almost crippled the program and a myriad of other problems. We are not Alabama or FSU. ...

That being said, we ARE better than this ****. We have the talent to win the ACC Coastal. It's not exactly the SEC West here. We have the talent to not give up leads to Duke. We have the talent to NOT get blown out by every ranked team we play. The biggest thing when watching Miami play is we get beat by the SAME **** every game: underneath routes, backs to the flats, screens, short curls against our cover 3 corners, cut backs on zone runs, intermediate seems, QB read option keep....this is all scheme in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Fair comment and good points
 
Talent is not where is needs to be correct. How do you (OP) explain us coming out lifeless, uninspired and unprepared in yet another game?
 
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