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Success of colleges running the 3-4

BlackKeysFan

BlackKeysFan

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I was wondering if somebody more knowledgable on the subject could educate me on the success of the 3-4 in college football from the teams that have run it. I know the NFL has shifted to the majority of teams running it.

Does anybody in the know have any real idea what our plan with it is? Are we trying to get to a point where it is our base set? I can see the advantages from a recruiting standpoint, as we sell that we are NFL U, so playing a more pro style defense will be a selling point. The downside is that barely any high schools play it, so none of our recruits will have any experience in it. I wonder if that would kind of negate some of our instant impact talent. It also is somewhat difficult to recruit that kind of size on the D-line because kids just aren't fully grown yet.

Part of me sees it as us going with the flow and change in pro defense, and part of me sees it as us outsmarting ourselves. Any insight? I guess we wont know till we see it but I think its a decent topic for conversation.
 
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USC and Texas ran it in the past with great success, Bama obviously is the biggest example. UVA is another one under Groh/Golden. UGA the past few years has had success.

You don't need as big of guys in college to play a 3-4. Bama has huge guys but Sed Ellis was a 3-4 nose at USC. Chris Long was a 3-4 end at UVA. You typically won't see younger guys on the DL in a 3-4 because of strength and technique involved with playing there. Edge guys it's easier because generally they'll just rush from 4 down linemen in passing downs.

No team exclusively runs the 3-4. Even Bama in the SECCG last season ran a ton of 4-3. No clue about the exclusiveness of a 3-4 for Miami, but so far the primary def has been a 4-3 over look with the sam backer on the line.

As for going with the flow, this is what Golden has always run, and it's what they ran at Temple. They're not just jumping on a bandwagon, it's what these coaches know and it's what they've had success doing.
 
DE CHICKILLO - HAMILTON
DT PORTER - MOORE
DE PIERRE - ROBINSON

OLB FIGUEROA - MCCORD
ILB PERRYMAN - GAINES
ILB KIRBY - BLUE
OLB CAIN - AQM
 
It is essentially an issue of supply of players who can dominate in that kind of defense, with the true nose as the hardest position to fill. There are far less of them. Highschools usually don't groom 3-4 defense.
 
rokulika said:
DE CHICKILLO - HAMILTON
DT PORTER - MOORE
DE PIERRE - ROBINSON

OLB FIGUEROA - MCCORD
ILB PERRYMAN - GAINES
ILB KIRBY - BLUE
OLB CAIN - AQM
Click to expand...

Looks pretty good to me although it appears you are expecting two rush end style players when I wouldn't be surprised if we play 3 true lbs or a deon bush type at the 4th lb spot...more of a 3-3-5 if there is such a thing
 
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umm that sh*t dont work in college....save a FEW teams...

gotta have BEAST in the fron to be able to hold up two gaps...good luck finding that...with 18 yr old freshmans having to do it...

Bama does it...but they also scour the world for prospects to do it...and they rfecruit totally different than most...and THEY still have to supplement it with juco guys....

It didnt work @ UVA with Golden and comp..thats why they aint win sh*t.

LOL @ the examples up top...Sedrick Ellis,Chris Long....those two guys are/were BEAST ...straight up grown men from jump...Chris Long not BIG??..He was 6'4 285-290 in college playing END....had the pedigree.

Its hard to recruit for the 3-4.....Theres not much guys that u can recruit as Inside backers or DE's...and your going to have to keep replenishing the nose tackle position.

In Florida u wont be able to recruit for it definately....hs linebackers down here generally weigh around 185-200 pds.

Even Bama runs a multiple look...which i think we want to do more here.
 
umhurricano said:
rokulika said:
DE CHICKILLO - HAMILTON
DT PORTER - MOORE
DE PIERRE - ROBINSON

OLB FIGUEROA - MCCORD
ILB PERRYMAN - GAINES
ILB KIRBY - BLUE
OLB CAIN - AQM
Click to expand...

Looks pretty good to me although it appears you are expecting two rush end style players when I wouldn't be surprised if we play 3 true lbs or a deon bush type at the 4th lb spot...more of a 3-3-5 if there is such a thing[/QUOTE]


ya the horrible defense West Virginia runs...
Click to expand...
 
Im with Geta on this one. Running a 3-4 on occasion is nice to give the opposing QB and OC a different look to think about, but its not something D1 college teams do with any regularity. 3-4 is primarily a coverup for roster issues IMO.


Interestingly, what doesn't get discussed enough on CFB message boards is the defense invented by former Air Force Academy head coach, Fisher DeBerry called the 3 - 3 - 5. Fisher DeBerry developed that because of the advent of the spread offense (coupled with his inability to be able to recruit very large young men). I tend to think that the south Florida talent pool would lend itself to this type of defense. There's rarely a shortage of quality DB's coming out of SoFl high schools.

Of course, getting Dorito to learn this and actually implement it...... whelp thats a whole-nutter subject. :)
 
Long was 275-280 in college, hardly NFL size for a 3-4 end. Ellis is a great player (and was fantastic at USC), but doesn't have NFL size for the position. The point was you don't need to have perfect size fits as long as you have good players that can play within the system.

When USC and Texas played in the NC both teams ran a 3-4. Bama and ND both ran it last year with their combined 2 losses. The 3-4 works in college just fine, there are certain sizes you target but you don't need the extremes like you do in the NFL (and not even in the NFL anymore as most teams run a 1 gap variation of it).

You can run a 3-4 in college with 6-4 280 lb ends, you can do it with a 6-0 300 lb NT, and you can do it with a 6-0 235 lb MLB.

It's just a ******* alignment, the biggest change in defensive systems is 1 gapping and 2 gapping, both of which work at every level of football, it just depends on a coaches ideology.

The 3-3-5 has such major gap issues it's not even funny, it's an interesting pass defense alignment but generally not as good as a 4-2-5, and somehow struggles to stop both the inside run and the edge run. Michigan got ******* destroyed running it with Rich Rod (though they also has terrible players and no strenth program).
 
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I dont want to hear it cant be done. If Stanford can come from where they have and build the defense they have built. It can be done, just have to be implemented by the right person and get the your type of players
 
Has Oregon been mentioned? They were pretty successful transitioning to a 3-4 back in 2010 doing it with a smallish but long Dline.
have hope.
 
If you want to run the 3-4 effectively you have to recruit the **** out of JUCO. Either that or have guys coming out of high school in your S&C system for at least 3 years so they could become physically mature.

DL is going to have to average 300 lbs across the line to be a major contender in CFB.
 
I'm more concerned with how the 3-4 coincides with our primary recruiting ground than anything else. Stanford, Notre Dame and Alabama have no problems getting kids that will buy-in to that style of defense. In their main recruiting grounds, high schools run that defense.

In South Florida everybody runs an attacking 4-3. These guys have been beating OL with speed since they were knee high.

I'm a firm believer that your college program should reflect the football that's played locally. Every high school down here runs the spread on offense and the 4-3 one-gap on defense.

I'm not saying the 3-4 can't work at Miami, but I do believe it's gonna take longer for the kids to get acclimated when they get here because they're being asked to do something they've never done before.
 
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gogeta4 said:
umm that sh*t dont work in college....save a FEW teams...

gotta have BEAST in the fron to be able to hold up two gaps...good luck finding that...with 18 yr old freshmans having to do it...

Bama does it...but they also scour the world for prospects to do it...and they rfecruit totally different than most...and THEY still have to supplement it with juco guys....

It didnt work @ UVA with Golden and comp..thats why they aint win sh*t.

LOL @ the examples up top...Sedrick Ellis,Chris Long....those two guys are/were BEAST ...straight up grown men from jump...Chris Long not BIG??..He was 6'4 285-290 in college playing END....had the pedigree.

Its hard to recruit for the 3-4.....Theres not much guys that u can recruit as Inside backers or DE's...and your going to have to keep replenishing the nose tackle position.

In Florida u wont be able to recruit for it definately....hs linebackers down here generally weigh around 185-200 pds.

Even Bama runs a multiple look...which i think we want to do more here.
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Yeah where on earth will Miami ever find a 3-4 NT? Ever heard of Vince Wilfork who just so happens to be the best NT in the NFL right now?

Miami can implement any scheme on defense they want with the talent they are able to pull. If Golden and Coach D were able to run that defense at Temple with no name talent then I'm pretty sure Miami will have an awesome Defense soon enough.
 
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Florida runs an odd front and they will have a south Florida grown nose tackle after this year. next excuse please.
 
WildcatDefense said:
I'm more concerned with how the 3-4 coincides with our primary recruiting ground than anything else. Stanford, Notre Dame and Alabama have no problems getting kids that will buy-in to that style of defense. In their main recruiting grounds, high schools run that defense.

In South Florida everybody runs an attacking 4-3. These guys have been beating OL with speed since they were knee high.

I'm a firm believer that your college program should reflect the football that's played locally. Every high school down here runs the spread on offense and the 4-3 one-gap on defense.

I'm not saying the 3-4 can't work at Miami, but I do believe it's gonna take longer for the kids to get acclimated when they get here because they're being asked to do something they've never done before.
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Wasn't this the reason that the Miami style 4-3 was "invented" in the first place. Where they dropped their safeties down to play OLB and their line backers ended up playing DE. You can play an attacking style with that. As has already been said, when you have to 2 gap on the line, you need a guy on the nose that can anchor against the run (Jesse Williams from BAMA was very good at this) but can get skinny and push the pocket on passing downs (possibly Antonio Garay from SD is the best at this). Most 18-20 yr old just aren't physically developed enough to play the position

On top of that you need bigger DE's that again have to set the edge (although this can depend), and are mostly asked to 2-gap again.

Many 4-3 base defences have 3-4 looks anyway...especially on passing downs
 
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D'Onofrio is extremely multiple though.

I've seen us 2-gap. I've seen us 1-gap. I've seen us angle/slant out of the 3-4 and 4-3.
 
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