Style and OL: Very Excited about THIS

[DeadPoets]

We aren't even talking about running schemes if Morris just throws 2 or 3 less picks.

The run game set him up fine all day. He was just abysmal.

Go watch the throw to Hagens in the flats (that would've been a TD).
Duke and the zone blocking run scheme set that up in 1st quarter.

 

[Cans4life]

Love when we go to the power run game. I understand the argument that Duke is an elite Zone runner, but Duke is an elite runner in any type of scheme. The O-Line looks 100X better when we're ground and pounding and they can just put their hands on people.

 

[dg151]

We've been running both of those plays the entire season. McDermott gets beat going backside on the nose just as much as he does when he reaches playside. Both zone and power were used last night in the 2nd half and both were effective. I will never understand the insane hate for zone blocking on this board.

 

[LuCane]

We've been running both of those plays the entire season. McDermott gets beat going backside on the nose just as much as he does when he reaches playside. Both zone and power were used last night in the 2nd half and both were effective. I will never understand the insane hate for zone blocking on this board.

There's actually not much hate at all, though I don't personally prefer the scheme and don't think all of our guys are best suited for it. On the bright side, Flowers looks better and better out there.

And, while we've run both, we've seemingly emphasized one style over another. Some people, myself included, want to see the power stuff worked in more. We ran it out of the gun last year with good success.

 

[JHallCanes]

Love when we go to the power run game. I understand the argument that Duke is an elite Zone runner, but Duke is an elite runner in any type of scheme. The O-Line looks 100X better when we're ground and pounding and they can just put their hands on people.

Exactly.

 

[JHallCanes]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

I don't understand any of this.

+rep

 

[ARJB]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

I don't understand any of this.

+rep

It sounds confusing and complicated, so I'm just gonna go ahead and assume he's right.

 

[LuCane]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

 

[LuCane]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

I don't understand any of this.

+rep

It sounds confusing and complicated, so I'm just gonna go ahead and assume he's right.

Lol sorry. Let me try and make it a little more understandable.

We played the majority of the first half in 12 personnel, meaning 1 running back and two tight ends. Our running game consisted of the stretch outside zone play (which we were gashing them with) and counter weak in which we run away from the tight end, pulling the backside guard and the wing (mixed results). They caught up to this and started stuffing it.

In the second half we went to 22 personnel, meaning two tight ends and two backs and used a formation which I haven't seen since last year: I backs, tight end, wing and WR all on the same side of formation. We then ran power out of this formation (everyone on the line downblocking, fullback kicking out, backside guard pulling around for the middle linebacker). Not only is our line very effective at running power, but by going to a formation with all eligible receivers on one side it messes with which gaps linebackers are supposed to be in and UNC was not prepared for it at first.

On the last drive we went back to 22 personnel and ran power now out of the unbalanced look and a balanced look, along with the stretch outside zone and the same counter play we were running out of 12 personnel earlier in the game. UNC's Lbs struggled to adjust back and fourth and were getting mauled.

Good stuff, man.

And, that's the base of mixing this stuff in. Get the OL doing things they seemingly do very well. Everyone will love the results. Some of those holes in the last drive were cot**** impressive. On one Clements carry, he cutback into a hole about 10 feet wide.

 

[AUcane]

lu, you think this becomes are base play/philosophy moving forward? It seems like an obvious question but sometimes coaches get away from stuff that seems to be working so well for whatever reason

I've loved watching that running scheme. Been doing it since game 1.

 

[gogeta4]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

used to be my fav play and i was in high school at the time loving it........

im not a huge fan of zoning in the red zone a whole lot or against certain teams...usually teams with a lot of speed up front. I was in hog heaven on our last few driives because ive been calling for that sh*t ALL YEAR....did u see Flowers straight maul their big time de Martin in the run game. Feliciano and Wheeler put guys on skates?. Now think of plays where we have 3 lineman 5 yards down the field stumbling and falling down with 3 dl hitting our rb in the backfield.

* Another peeve ive noticed the last few weeks dont know if its Kehoe's coaching, An individual ol mess up, or Morris calling the wrong protection...but in no wayt shape or form should Flowers(hes done it atleast 3 or 4 times the last 2 weeks) in pass pro...step down to basically help no one and let his de fly up field un block for a back to come across the formation to "TRY" and make a block. That is just fundamentally wrong and has caused a few turnovers these last few weeks as Morris sees that sh*t and just falls back and chucks. I'm going to say its Kehoe's protection because no way is Flowers that dumb....in pass pro you step down if their is a threat in your gap and leave the last man free for the back or qb....their stepping down with no threat. Hate it.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

Except for the fact that there have been route combinations that include what you want us to use and Stephen has his head firmly planted up his *** and refuses to throw there.

 

[LuCane]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

Except for the fact that there have been route combinations that include what you want us to use and Stephen has his head firmly planted up his *** and refuses to throw there.

May be true. If so, I've missed it. Haven't seen the FB/TE cross over the middle I'm hoping for. We've kept a lot of our stuff out on the edges. We've played a lot on the left 1/3 of the field and the right 1/3 of the field. To your point, that may be because of Morris.

 

[Dynasty]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

Except for the fact that there have been route combinations that include what you want us to use and Stephen has his head firmly planted up his *** and refuses to throw there.

May be true. If so, I've missed it. Haven't seen the FB/TE cross over the middle I'm hoping for. We've kept a lot of our stuff out on the edges. We've played a lot on the left 1/3 of the field and the right 1/3 of the field. To your point, that may be because of Morris.

We've seen this before when Coker had Kenny Kelly throw primarily corner and out routes. Like Kelly, Morris usually misses high. The last thing you want is a quarterback missing high over the middle of the field.

One of my favorite route combinations during the Coker years was the TE option route with the fullback angle or banana route underneath. It was basically a pick your poison route because the TE always ran away from coverage which opened up the underneath FB route. Plus, Shockey was just masterful at using double moves to option off his defender/coverage.

 

[ssj4cane]

We also stopped fiddlefvcking around with moving our OL around to different positions in the second half which greatly improved our continuity. We need to keep flowers at LT, feliciano at LG, wheeler/McDermott at C, Linder at RG and Henderson at RT. That is our best lineup and it was validated last night in the second half.

Final drive was actually left to right...Flowers, Feliciano, McDermott, Wheeler and Linder.

 

[courcy75]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

used to be my fav play and i was in high school at the time loving it........

im not a huge fan of zoning in the red zone a whole lot or against certain teams...usually teams with a lot of speed up front. I was in hog heaven on our last few driives because ive been calling for that sh*t ALL YEAR....did u see Flowers straight maul their big time de Martin in the run game. Feliciano and Wheeler put guys on skates?. Now think of plays where we have 3 lineman 5 yards down the field stumbling and falling down with 3 dl hitting our rb in the backfield.

* Another peeve ive noticed the last few weeks dont know if its Kehoe's coaching, An individual ol mess up, or Morris calling the wrong protection...but in no wayt shape or form should Flowers(hes done it atleast 3 or 4 times the last 2 weeks) in pass pro...step down to basically help no one and let his de fly up field un block for a back to come across the formation to "TRY" and make a block. That is just fundamentally wrong and has caused a few turnovers these last few weeks as Morris sees that sh*t and just falls back and chucks. I'm going to say its Kehoe's protection because no way is Flowers that dumb....in pass pro you step down if their is a threat in your gap and leave the last man free for the back or qb....their stepping down with no threat. Hate it.

That's a full slide in a 6 man protection. If Flowers were to kickslide vertical on the DE then it would be a 3 man slide (C,G,T) opposite of him with the back filling either A or B gap next to Flowers. The left guard would determine that by the DT's alignment. Most teams slide all 5 when they anticipate field pressure or a certain personnel.

 

[courcy75]

We've talked about it earlier in the season. Feliciano pulling. Tackles and Guards down-blocking and drive-blocking. Mcdermott being asked to chip and help instead of single blocking and reaching for a DT in the zone-stretch.

WOO!

Hate to call you out because you put some work into it but your illustration is a little off on the power blocking scheme. the playside double team is not a zone block with the guard working lateral to reach the down lineman. It is Gap blocking with the guard climbing up and in to the backside backer. Here is Kehoe's teaching via another great thing Golden has brought to the program.

http://hfbca.theusports.com/?DB_OEM_ID=28700

Click OL tab at the top and then Deuce blocks.

 

[LuCane]

Lu you and I have talked about this. I was SCREAMING at the TV to run power. Single Back power has disappeared from the offense which is disappointing to me as we were $ at it last year. However the first time we ran power we actually ran it out off 22 personnel TE/Wing Unbalanced (Both TE's and WR on same side of formation) And they had no idea how to fit it up. Our first 4th quarter TD was also power out of this formation. On our last drive we stayed in 22 personnel and ran Power, Outside Zone and Counter Weak and gashed them repeatedly.

Hope we pump all of this more and work the PA off of it. Still praying we use our TEs, RBs and FB over the middle of the field a little more. I think it'd help Stephen.

We used to run a play here during the early 00s that was basically a play off of the power run game. We'd do a combo route between the FB and the TE. It was basically impossible to cover and, when Dorsey read correctly (a lot), the receiver had a ton of room to run. We'd also run Najeh on some circle patterns out of the FB position. He notoriously fumbled one away in that 2000 game.

But, ****, if you mix that stuff up with our Pistol sets, that's a fun offense with a lot of versatility.

Except for the fact that there have been route combinations that include what you want us to use and Stephen has his head firmly planted up his *** and refuses to throw there.

May be true. If so, I've missed it. Haven't seen the FB/TE cross over the middle I'm hoping for. We've kept a lot of our stuff out on the edges. We've played a lot on the left 1/3 of the field and the right 1/3 of the field. To your point, that may be because of Morris.

We've seen this before when Coker had Kenny Kelly throw primarily corner and out routes. Like Kelly, Morris usually misses high. The last thing you want is a quarterback missing high over the middle of the field.

One of my favorite route combinations during the Coker years was the TE option route with the fullback angle or banana route underneath. It was basically a pick your poison route because the TE always ran away from coverage which opened up the underneath FB route. Plus, Shockey was just masterful at using double moves to option off his defender/coverage.

This is the stuff I referenced above. Realize it was different personnel and a different QB. Just noting we're pretty obviously playing on the edges right now.

 

[LuCane]

We've talked about it earlier in the season. Feliciano pulling. Tackles and Guards down-blocking and drive-blocking. Mcdermott being asked to chip and help instead of single blocking and reaching for a DT in the zone-stretch.

WOO!

Hate to call you out because you put some work into it but your illustration is a little off on the power blocking scheme. the playside double team is not a zone block with the guard working lateral to reach the down lineman. It is Gap blocking with the guard climbing up and in to the backside backer. Here is Kehoe's teaching via another great thing Golden has brought to the program.

http://hfbca.theusports.com/?DB_OEM_ID=28700

Click OL tab at the top and then Deuce blocks.

Haha. I didn't put any work into that illustration. It's not mine. The link should be attached to the image. It was copied and pasted from a google image search b/c I wanted to talk about the subject (power run game) and last drive. I didn't mention anything re: the zone block from the image. The mention of zone block was from watching Mcderm when we DON'T run Power, but instead the zone scheme. Maybe that's where you misunderstood what I said, which is my fault for lack of clarity in those short sentences/bullets.

 

[Cuse2Miami26]

We also stopped fiddlefvcking around with moving our OL around to different positions in the second half which greatly improved our continuity. We need to keep flowers at LT, feliciano at LG, wheeler/McDermott at C, Linder at RG and Henderson at RT. That is our best lineup and it was validated last night in the second half.

This

Why are we rotating? I dont remember this many guys playing on the OL last year. I'm ok with subbing but the shifting in positions makes no sense to me