Starters on our 2007 Defensive LIne

[BigCaneAl]

Different scheme...so this is pretty a irrelevant as a reference point

Here is what we want to become

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid

Guys like Hoilett, Terry, McCord, and Matt Thomas are fits for the hybrid LB role

Guys like Briscoe and Bostwick are good for that hybrid D-Lineman

The problem is that we have NO ONE who legitimately fits either role. Like the 3-4, we are asking 3 guys to play 2-gap which is why Chick is struggling so mightily.

We have bad players and are running a scheme that doesn't fit the bad players which is the ultimate toxic poison.

We are building right now, but it is CRUCIAL that we remain steadfast. D and Golden know this and are willing to suffer through the beatdowns as a result. We are developing and recruiting the guys who will make this defense work. I just hope that D gets enough time to see this through.

Here's the problem with this scenario....assuming we get those guys they will be freshman, so there's a built in excuse next year...year after they everyone will say they are still young....so really we are three years away, which will be D'Onfrio's fifth. I'm sorry, a good D coordinator takes what he has and makes it work. You don't force your scheme on the wrong personale.

Thats not fair because Jimmy Johnson faced the same issues when he got here, just so happens he had more talent so it wasn't as glaring, but '84 was most definitely a cluster****. Nobody remembers that though because people only remember Jimmy losing 2 games over his last 3 years.

118th in the nation....I would take JJ's worst cluster **** over the **** defense D'Onfrio's putting out there. It's sad because its not fair to these kids who I am sure are trying. It's got to be demoralizing. Oh, and you don't think it's going to hit us on the recruiting trail? Why go play at UM, there coaching is straight garbage.

Not going to argue this with you. You aren't arguing scheme. You aren't arguing execution. You aren't arguing personnel. You are just speaking in generalities that are extremely obvious. Any fool can discern that us being 118th in the country in defense, means the scheme isn't working, but it's deeper than that.

Jerzey, I appreciate your info, but I don't need to argue scheme....it's about results. As a coach what is your responsibility? Is it to force your square peg scheme into a round hole or adapt, adjust, and put your players in a position to win. By arguing that the scheme will be better with different players, then you are admitting that these guys aren't doing there jobs right now.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Thats not fair because Jimmy Johnson faced the same issues when he got here, just so happens he had more talent so it wasn't as glaring, but '84 was most definitely a cluster****. Nobody remembers that though because people only remember Jimmy losing 2 games over his last 3 years.

118th in the nation....I would take JJ's worst cluster **** over the **** defense D'Onfrio's putting out there. It's sad because its not fair to these kids who I am sure are trying. It's got to be demoralizing. Oh, and you don't think it's going to hit us on the recruiting trail? Why go play at UM, there coaching is straight garbage.

Not going to argue this with you. You aren't arguing scheme. You aren't arguing execution. You aren't arguing personnel. You are just speaking in generalities that are extremely obvious. Any fool can discern that us being 118th in the country in defense, means the scheme isn't working, but it's deeper than that.

Jerzey, I appreciate your info, but I don't need to argue scheme....it's about results. As a coach what is your responsibility? Is it to force your square peg scheme into a round hole or adapt, adjust, and put your players in a position to win. By arguing that the scheme will be better with different players, then you are admitting that these guys aren't doing there jobs right now.

It depends on the payoff. They knew coming into this year we were going to suck. That "no excuses" garbage is pure coach speak. We differ on their job descriptions. I think to a certain extent they do need to adapt, but I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the program. I feel like the hybrid could take us to a RIDICULOUS level. With the athletes that South Florida will provide us, I think this defense could turn us into the dominant defense that ruled college football for the better part of 3 decades. As difficult as it is to sit through the other team running through us like we are liquid, I believe there is an end game.

Agree.

When you're adapting to a completely different system, there will be growing pains.

We're basically immersing them in this scheme. Eventually it will pay off. Scrambling and going back to cover 2 man or something isn't good long term.

BTW cover 2 man (or whatever people wanna run) is not an unbeatable defense. There are holes in that defense just like any other.

 

[bobbydigius]

All four of those guys, including Moncur on 1/8th of a leg or whatever his problem extremity was, would be starting for us right now.

How quickly we forget Tim Walton.

Underrated post is underrated.

Im assuming we dont see eye to eye, but Tim Walton as bad as Coach D is, was the worst DC I have ever seen. Nothing against the guy but he was beyond in over his head. As to the said starting line up, well.....
Calais going into that season was a projected top ten pick but disappointed yet he just got a 50 mil in the NFL. Bottom line is he would not only be the best DL on the team right now but the best player on the entire defense and a headliner. Mcray did get ripped on all the major Canes boards but he always was decent, as in he didnt get blown off the ball every time. We were spoiled then, we had just gotten over having elite talent at every spot. Moncur was nothing special, but tell me who on our roster right now you would take over him. Only debatable answer would be 3G, but even then you are comparing a true soph to a 5th year senior. Franklin I will give you as being on the same level as the guys we do have, but in all reality in a 3rd and long he would be in there because he is more suited to rush the passer than anyone else save our true freashmen.

 

[DeadPoets]

Vegas Franklin DT 6'3 255
Terezz Mcray DT 6'2 285
Eric Moncur DE 6'1 240
Calais Campbell DE 6'8 280



Calais Campbell and a bunch of undersized jags finished... Yea they were Juniors. They were all a bunch of 3 star JAGS.. not talented... small as ****.

Yet we finished 40th against the rush and yielded a respectable run defense. It is not ALL the players it is this bullsht scheme.. If we can finish 40th against the run with this group there is no excuse..none

Yup

 

[UMcanesfan420]

Teraz McCray didn't get pushed around and wasn't a JAG. Not a great player but not a JAG by any stretch. He actually got penetration regularly.


Eric Moncur was a JAG? I'm pulling your Cane card for that one.


I'd give my left nut for Calais' pass rushing skills on this years line.


Even Vegas Franklin would start over the DT's we have now.


You guys are really reaching now.

 

[88]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

 

[CanesAreAble]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

.

 

[UMcanesfan420]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

This. If Vernon had stayed and Ojomo got his medical shirt, we would at least have some pass rush.


And I hate to say it, because he was such a mega bust, but even Forston would be an improvement over these DT's. Ugh, did I just say that? That's the state of the DL here.


Oh, and I love the upside of our younf LB's, but Spence and McCarthy would help alot too.

 

[bes628]

I can't even....good god.

 

[GhostofVenice01]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

Nothing....Our defense sucked then, and still does now.

 

[88]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

Nothing....Our defense sucked then, and still does now.

If our defense is 17th in scoring right now then Miami's ranked right now.

 

[AtrainCane]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

Nothing....Our defense sucked then, and still does now.

If our defense is 17th in scoring right now then Miami's ranked right now.

Even though we were 17th in scoring, we still gave up a ton of yards. we need to be getting 3 and outs not letting the offense drive 60-70 yards and kick a field goal. Our offense needs to be on the field sometimes.

 

[razrcane]

I can't even....good god.

Smh..and lol at people claiming forston would have made any difference this year. He would be playing on roller skates just like he did the past three years.

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

Different scheme...so this is pretty a irrelevant as a reference point

Here is what we want to become

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid

Guys like Hoilett, Terry, McCord, and Matt Thomas are fits for the hybrid LB role

Guys like Briscoe and Bostwick are good for that hybrid D-Lineman

The problem is that we have NO ONE who legitimately fits either role. Like the 3-4, we are asking 3 guys to play 2-gap which is why Chick is struggling so mightily.

We have bad players and are running a scheme that doesn't fit the bad players which is the ultimate toxic poison.

We are building right now, but it is CRUCIAL that we remain steadfast. D and Golden know this and are willing to suffer through the beatdowns as a result. We are developing and recruiting the guys who will make this defense work. I just hope that D gets enough time to see this through.

Here's the problem with this scenario....assuming we get those guys they will be freshman, so there's a built in excuse next year...year after they everyone will say they are still young....so really we are three years away, which will be D'Onfrio's fifth. I'm sorry, a good D coordinator takes what he has and makes it work. You don't force your scheme on the wrong personale.

This is where I come off as well. I don't want to see these guys be really good because they don't have the talent/experience to be really good. But at some point I'd like to see *something* that tells us that we're at least getting better. We're playing a lot of guys who have been in this system for 2 years and a lot of them should be making some kind of leap with a year under their belt. Yet every game and every snap looks like the first--run plays for 5+ yards to stay on schedule or WIDE OPEN guys in the passing game. A lot of confusion for us, no confusion for them, and no disruption EVER. If we're totally reliant on players, then next year we'll get some DL and talk about how they are freshmen and aren't good--because they will be freshmen and won't be good. Freshmen are almost never really good. Presumably the back 7 will play a lot like it plays at the END of this year--the summer won't be THAT meaningful. So at some point by the END of this year, we have to see something. If I don't see something by the end of this year, I won't expect anything new next year. We played this game last offseason--everybody forgot what the end of last year looked like and talked themselves into us being decent with new names. I could never talk myself into that, and we look just as bad and actually worse obviously.

 

[Bigtip]

All four of those guys, including Moncur on 1/8th of a leg or whatever his problem extremity was, would be starting for us right now.

no way. that list is pure trash besides Campbell.

we have a better DL on paper right now. those guys would not be starting (except campbell obviously)

our D scheme is WOAT

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

So whats changed this year from last year. Did coach D's scheme get worse? It was the talent.

Nothing....Our defense sucked then, and still does now.

If our defense is 17th in scoring right now then Miami's ranked right now.

Yeah, just cherry pick ONE defensive statistic to base your argument off of. What were we in total defense last year? How many points and yardage did we regularly give up? Our defense only sucked slightly less last year.

This fool acting like we were defensive juggernauts last year

 

[Dingaan1828]

Vegas Franklin DT 6'3 255
Terezz Mcray DT 6'2 285
Eric Moncur DE 6'1 240
Calais Campbell DE 6'8 280



Calais Campbell and a bunch of undersized jags finished... Yea they were Juniors. They were all a bunch of 3 star JAGS.. not talented... small as ****.

Yet we finished 40th against the rush and yielded a respectable run defense. It is not ALL the players it is this bullsht scheme.. If we can finish 40th against the run with this group there is no excuse..none

3 of those guys are 4 stars on Rivals. 3 of them signed in 2003, and one in 2004. That means 3 of them were in their 5th year in the program, and the other in his 4th year.

What was your point again?

 

[moshated305]

I would kill to have those 4 here right now. That DL is 10 times better than what we currently have.

and they'd also do nothing in this scheme. Our Dline looked like sh*t last year too and that was with Forston (first few games), Regis, Robinson, Vernon, Ojomo, Smith, etc. Just a few months ago a great number of posters in here were talking about how guys like Regis, Vernon, Robinson, Ojomo, etc wouldn't be big losses as they didn't do much on the field.

Disagree. With that DL we were still in the top 50 in almost every major category defensively in the first year of this system. You are also leaving out the fact that we had Mike Williams and Lee Chambers playing major minutes at CB. Of course people said they wouldn't be big losses. That's what fans do. They spit out BS to try to big up their team. Just like every time Shannon took a no star player his buddy told him about, someone would come on a Cane site and talk about diamond in the rough LOL How people were talking up Cleveland and Gaines?

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Vegas Franklin DT 6'3 255
Terezz Mcray DT 6'2 285
Eric Moncur DE 6'1 240
Calais Campbell DE 6'8 280



Calais Campbell and a bunch of undersized jags finished... Yea they were Juniors. They were all a bunch of 3 star JAGS.. not talented... small as ****.

Yet we finished 40th against the rush and yielded a respectable run defense. It is not ALL the players it is this bullsht scheme.. If we can finish 40th against the run with this group there is no excuse..none

You missing Antonio Dixon and Dwayne Hendricks, both NFL players, from that list.
Nice try.

 

[Professor Plum]

Vegas Franklin DT 6'3 255
Terezz Mcray DT 6'2 285
Eric Moncur DE 6'1 240
Calais Campbell DE 6'8 280



Calais Campbell and a bunch of undersized jags finished... Yea they were Juniors. They were all a bunch of 3 star JAGS.. not talented... small as ****.

Yet we finished 40th against the rush and yielded a respectable run defense. It is not ALL the players it is this bullsht scheme.. If we can finish 40th against the run with this group there is no excuse..none

You missing Antonio Dixon and Dwayne Hendricks, both NFL players, from that list.
Nice try.

those guys barely played that season barely in the rotation try again