South Florida Recruiting - An Outsider's Thoughts (long)

[DTP]

Good post. I will say that Miami is making progress in a four areas you mentioned. Nine wins including a bowl is a step in the right direction. Richt and staff have been going overboard building bridges with local youth leagues and the high school coaches. Facility upgrades have been ongoing and contiue to happen. There's a few reasons why Miami hasn't been able to dominate local recruiting. These kids were babies when Miami last won big. The Hurricanes have consistently underachieved their entire lives. The previous coaches left really bad tastes in a lot of people's mouths. Also, it doesn't get mentioned a lot but a lot of these kids want to get the **** away. I know Alex Collins for a fact wanted nothing to do with being near his terrible family situation. For a lot of these kids, heading out of state to a new environment is a high priority.

 

[DMoney]

The issue with this is that we should already see some bump in defensive back recruiting based on what our defense showed this year. 2013 was 2013. A different staff and, to some of these kids, a different time period altogether.

It takes time to rebuild a rep and, even in the short-term, UF is about to pump out two more high picks at DB. That's who were losing to.

 

[DMoney]

And people won't want to hear this, but these kids don't owe us any loyalty. Even the commits. Was anybody talking about loyalty when we dropped Kevaughn Dingle and Rodney Scott?

This is a bottom-line business. The coach's job is to sign the kids. He gets paid for that. I'm not going to freak out and bash the kid when the coach doesn't do his job.

 

[LuCane]

The issue with this is that we should already see some bump in defensive back recruiting based on what our defense showed this year. 2013 was 2013. A different staff and, to some of these kids, a different time period altogether.

It takes time to rebuild a rep and, even in the short-term, UF is about to pump out two more high picks at DB. That's who were losing to.

There are plenty of examples of other coaching staffs getting an immediate bump without the sustained success to build up rep. I know some will say the answer to that is "bags," but then that's my point: we're often fighting uphill regardless.

I think your subsequent post covers it more effectively. It's a bottom line business. We haven't sold the kids. We've done a solid job, but still missing in areas. It happens. Let's see if we close with a few guys like Thomas, Mcfarland and keep our important ones. From a defense perspective, I'll still say we missed on Davis and a few others who were very much needed in this class.

 

[NVA CANE]

I'll add one more to solutions: Forget about the **** fence(especially fans). Its hard to sell ice to an Eskimo. Go sell the city of Miami nationally. Once Miami (the city as much as the school) becomes a destination for national recruits, then that will carry more weight with the local guys as well. There is a reason why some many nfl guys from across the country live down here. We ****ed on Golden about his New Jersey pipeline, but he had the right idea and was a pretty good recruiter if nothing else.

I think this is the answer here.

 

[Torocane]

I think it boils down to this: South Florida athletes are basically professionals at the Pop Warner level. There is already free agency, high expectations, gambling and intense pressure. That carries on through high school.

There is a positive and negative to this. As college coaches will tell you, South Florida kids are the most hardened and tough competitors. They play early in college and in the NFL because they aren't blinded by the pressure or the talent. The negative is that South Florida kids make business decisions in choosing a college. That includes taking money, but it's deeper than that.

You need to win and you need to have a proven system. Why do you think UF is killing us in DB recruiting? They've proven that they can take talented defensive backs, utilize their talents and turn them into first round picks. We, on the other hand, wasted an NFL defensive backfield in 2013. Similarly, if you're the best WR in South Florida, there is pretty clear and established path to success at Alabama.

It takes time for Miami to re-establish its reputation. Once we make it clear that Miami is the best business decision, we will get the majority of elite South Florida kids.

The issue with this is that we should already see some bump in defensive back recruiting based on what our defense showed this year. 2013 was 2013. A different staff and, to some of these kids, a different time period altogether. I concede we're picking up, to name only a few, guys like DJ Johnson, Garvin, Steed (who I think would come here anyway?), I expect Dean and I think Deejay Dallas is a CB (as we've discussed), but we've missed on some Safeties who could have really helped. And, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me given the momentum and evidence behind where our defense is going.

Now, if what you're saying is it needs more time to crystalize in the minds of some of these prospects, I guess we'll wait and see. Problem is Manny Diaz may or may not be around by then. Then we have a different problem.

I'll remain concerned that we seem to have to work 4x as hard on virtually everything. Tough to win that way in today's competitive environment.

"I'll remain concerned that we seem to have to work 4x as hard on virtually everything. Tough to win that way in today's competitive environment."

Sure seems that way.

 

[ghost2]

I think it boils down to this: South Florida athletes are basically professionals at the Pop Warner level. There is already free agency, high expectations, gambling and intense pressure. That carries on through high school.

There is a positive and negative to this. As college coaches will tell you, South Florida kids are the most hardened and tough competitors. They play early in college and in the NFL because they aren't blinded by the pressure or the talent. The negative is that South Florida kids make business decisions in choosing a college. That includes taking money, but it's deeper than that.

You need to win and you need to have a proven system. Why do you think UF is killing us in DB recruiting? They've proven that they can take talented defensive backs, utilize their talents and turn them into first round picks. We, on the other hand, wasted an NFL defensive backfield in 2013. Similarly, if you're the best WR in South Florida, there is pretty clear and established path to success at Alabama.

It takes time for Miami to re-establish its reputation. Once we make it clear that Miami is the best business decision, we will get the majority of elite South Florida kids.

I'm normally 100% with you on pretty much everything, but I just can't get completely on board with the whole "business decision" thing. I agree with the premise - especially that winning is the biggest factor - but if it were just a "business decision" issue (vis-a-vis the shortest path to the NFL), well, even our darkest years have produced legit NFL talent. You mention UF's DBs but in the last 2-3 years we've put Deon Bush, Tracy Howard, Ladarius Gunter, and Artie Burns in the league. Corn Elder is about to get paid big-time. **** Adrian Colbert might get drafted. And Bama WRs? Amari Cooper and Ridley or am I missing somebody? We just had Dorsett go in the 1st round. **** I think LaRon Byrd is still collecting a paycheck. And Stacy Coley is next up. Now if you mean "path to success" as in "scouts will evaluate Bama players higher than others because of their winning percentage and exposure" then I totally agree. But just based on the straight-up ability to put players in the NFL, even with a lousy on-field record, I still put UM up there with anybody.

 

[ghost2]

I'll remain concerned that we seem to have to work 4x as hard on virtually everything. Tough to win that way in today's competitive environment.

This is it right here. As usual Lu said in one sentence what it took me seven paragraphs to say. =)

 

[DMoney]

I agree with the premise - especially that winning is the biggest factor - but if it were just a "business decision" issue (vis-a-vis the shortest path to the NFL), well, even our darkest years have produced legit NFL talent.

But those guys are consistently undervalued, which means less guaranteed money when they're drafted. They make it in the NFL because of their talent. We haven't been getting the most out of them in college or helping their draft stock. Two guys you mentioned-- Gunter and Howard -- went undrafted. Guys like Olivier Vernon and Calais Campbell should have been Top 10 picks.

I think that's changing, but it will take time to shift the perception.

 

[ghost2]

I agree with the premise - especially that winning is the biggest factor - but if it were just a "business decision" issue (vis-a-vis the shortest path to the NFL), well, even our darkest years have produced legit NFL talent.

But those guys are consistently undervalued, which means less guaranteed money when they're drafted. They make it in the NFL because of their talent. We haven't been getting the most out of them in college or helping their draft stock. Two guys you mentioned-- Gunter and Howard -- went undrafted. Guys like Olivier Vernon and Calais Campbell should have been Top 10 picks.

I think that's changing, but it will take time to shift the perception.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying that. So you're talking about "business decision" as in - "this team has the winning %, media support, scouting bump, etc. to take my talent and turn it into $$$." That I can agree with. And I think the turnaround starts with this draft class, honestly.

Kaaya will get drafted (not 1st round or anything but if he gets drafted at all he'll be the highest drafted QB from Miami since....when? Dorsey in the 7th? That's still a big deal, IMO)
Elder should go 1st round
Njoku and Coley should go within the first 3 rounds

Then look at the young guys like Richards, our LBs, JoeJack... The 2016 class should get PAID.

 

[UMFarArcher]

South Florida recruiting?

October.

 

[fincane]

I agree with the premise - especially that winning is the biggest factor - but if it were just a "business decision" issue (vis-a-vis the shortest path to the NFL), well, even our darkest years have produced legit NFL talent.

But those guys are consistently undervalued, which means less guaranteed money when they're drafted. They make it in the NFL because of their talent. We haven't been getting the most out of them in college or helping their draft stock. Two guys you mentioned-- Gunter and Howard -- went undrafted. Guys like Olivier Vernon and Calais Campbell should have been Top 10 picks.

I think that's changing, but it will take time to shift the perception.

I get what you're saying but Vernon's production never matched his talent. He also got suspended six games because of Nevin and then left early.

 

[miamimike]

I think it boils down to this: South Florida athletes are basically professionals at the Pop Warner level. There is already free agency, high expectations, gambling and intense pressure. That carries on through high school.

There is a positive and negative to this. As college coaches will tell you, South Florida kids are the most hardened and tough competitors. They play early in college and in the NFL because they aren't blinded by the pressure or the talent. The negative is that South Florida kids make business decisions in choosing a college. That includes taking money, but it's deeper than that.

You need to win and you need to have a proven system. Why do you think UF is killing us in DB recruiting? They've proven that they can take talented defensive backs, utilize their talents and turn them into first round picks. We, on the other hand, wasted an NFL defensive backfield in 2013. Similarly, if you're the best WR in South Florida, there is pretty clear and established path to success at Alabama.

It takes time for Miami to re-establish its reputation. Once we make it clear that Miami is the best business decision, we will get the majority of elite South Florida kids.

Always respect your opinion money. So if that is true how do we not get every tight end we want?

 

[Notsince1985]

lol at whoop downvoting

 

[ghost2]

lol at whoop downvoting

lol possibly the most consistent poster on this or any message board. =)

 

[Classic]

Great post, [MENTION=293]ghost2[/MENTION]. I think you did a great job distilling the unique landscape of South Florida and the challenges Miami faces as a result.

Though I think we waited until the week of signing day, or the day before, to offer Skai Moore, so not the best example of the "make 'em pay for offering late" mantra. You're right that it's an issue, though, and the latest example is Harley.

 

[Zbrod95]

Fwiw trevon probably never would've came here

 

[ghost2]

Yeah, Moore was just a cluster****. There are other better examples though.

 

[ghost2]

Fwiw trevon probably never would've came here

Also true - he's been all O*U for a while.

 

[DMoney]

Always respect your opinion money. So if that is true how do we not get every tight end we want?

This thread is about South Florida kids and there just haven't been too many battles over South Florida TEs. The only one was O'Leary, and he was a unique recruit for a number of reasons.

We are looking good with the #1 TE in 2018, so hopefully we do a better job of selling the tradition to OOS blue-chippers.