Secondary

[Dynasty]

In general, there are just too many variables defensively to determine what type of secondary play we will see this year. As is the case with any defense, it all starts upfront. Getting good, consistent play from the front four will make an average secondary look better. If we get consistent play upfront, I think secondary play could be surprising. Having a year in coach D's system also will help as there shouldn't be as many breakdowns and blown assignments.

In terms of personnel, I'm not as down on McGee as a lot of people here. I think he could be a solid corner for us. His problem isn't physical, IMO. It's mental. I think getting thrown into the fire at an early age hurt his confidence and he hasn't recovered. The biggest thing he needs is to purge his memory and don't think about unsucessful plays. Playing corner requires a certain mentally. If he gets it together mentally, he brings the one attribute that isn't coachable. Speed. Finne showed flashes last year. He doesn't get enough credit for his tackling skills. I think as a boundary corner he brings everything you want at that position. He is physical against the run and decent in coverage verses the deep routes. Consistency is the key for Finnie. VTelemaque is solid. I actually think he would be better at free safety than strong safety. He has decent instincts, but doesn't have outstanding range. RRArmstrong also doesn't have great range. He's actually better playing closer to the line of scrimmage, which is why I think SS would be a better fit for his skill set. Both VT and RRA are at a disadvantage when matched up one on one against receivers. Other than the one TD play against fSu, Rogers didn't play that badly in limited snaps last year. As for the freshmen dbacks, based on their highschool clips, THoward seems to be a natural field corner. Kid has good transistion and excellent coverage skills. We will see how his skills translate to this level.

 

[AllbouttheU]

I think we're going take our lumps throughout the first half of season with the young guys and then see them improve. We need McGhee and Finnie to really hold it down until Howard, Bush, and the rest of the kids get their feet under them.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Ray Ray was 2nd team ALL ACC his soph year with 80 tackles 4 int so he has done something his career. Last year was a wash for him with the 5 missed games because of suspensions. I think he will make ALL ACC this year and be a 2nd-3rd round pick next year. As for VT i think he will be solid as well but i look for Rayshawn Jenkins to take some of his time imo. The starting cb should be Gunter and McGee week 1 with Tracy rotating with Gunter and Finnie playing Nickle..

Ray Ray was pretty bad the year he made 2nd team all-ACC.

Pretty sure he only had 3 INTs: one was against FAMU, one was a gimme against Clemson on a terrible overthrow, and one was actually a good read against Maryland. He was also out of position/whiffed on his fair share of long runs.

He's still living off recruiting hype.

 

[MiamiNites]

The biggest difference this year will be the way the secondary is coached. miami played far to soft last year and it easily was one of the worst coaching jobs in the last 30 years, miami will see a big improvemnt based on coaching aspect alone.

 

[MiamiNites]

Ray Ray was 2nd team ALL ACC his soph year with 80 tackles 4 int so he has done something his career. Last year was a wash for him with the 5 missed games because of suspensions. I think he will make ALL ACC this year and be a 2nd-3rd round pick next year. As for VT i think he will be solid as well but i look for Rayshawn Jenkins to take some of his time imo. The starting cb should be Gunter and McGee week 1 with Tracy rotating with Gunter and Finnie playing Nickle..

Ray Ray was pretty bad the year he made 2nd team all-ACC.

Pretty sure he only had 3 INTs: one was against FAMU, one was a gimme against Clemson on a terrible overthrow, and one was actually a good read against Maryland. He was also out of position/whiffed on his fair share of long runs.

He's still living off recruiting hype.

He wasn't as bad as misc messgae board posters make him out to be. he also dropped atleast 3int's ( 2 of which i saw live vs osu*)

 

[jakeman1]

Now that a lot of the guys will have been in D'Onofrio's system for a year, he shouldn't have to dumb it down for them and he can at least start disguising some things. I don't think he could do that last year.

 

[MiamiNites]

Now that a lot of the guys will have been in D'Onofrio's system for a year, he shouldn't have to dumb it down for them and he can at least start disguising some things. I don't think he could do that last year.

Don't talk yourself inot thinking ohnofrio runs some complicated defensive scheme because he doesn't.

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

In theory, but not if we're playing a ton of new guys in the back 7.

Now that a lot of the guys will have been in D'Onofrio's system for a year, he shouldn't have to dumb it down for them and he can at least start disguising some things. I don't think he could do that last year.

 

[LuCane]

I think you'll actually see some improvement from last year's eye-popping discomfort with zone. On multiple occasions (UNC, BC and VT stand out), we saw guys so lost in their zones or exchanges that the results were complete breakdowns. I suspect that will happen less this year through sheer repetition. Apart from that, I think a guy like Howard can find himself on the field very early (even if just outside in Nickel sets) because his skillset and approach both fit well into zone schemes. I think D'Ono was handcuffed last year between not having the talent or confidence in players to mix and match press and zone effectively.

Beating a dead horse: the range of our Safeties is also an obvious deterrent to Zone schemes. Even when we played 2 deep last year, I can remember a specific play against VTech where Ray Ray was "in position" over the top, but got his lead feet stuck in the field. The result was a post right at his face.

 

[Ethnicsands]

In theory, but not if we're playing a ton of new guys in the back 7.

Now that a lot of the guys will have been in D'Onofrio's system for a year, he shouldn't have to dumb it down for them and he can at least start disguising some things. I don't think he could do that last year.

But not clear we will be. We have several 4th year players in the secondary, and Buchanon and Gaines ain't spring chickens. And Perryman may be our best defensive player. As long as McGee, VT and RRA contribute, I think we'll see some interesting things from our D. If it winds up being a bunch of first year players, however, I agree with you.

 

[pcitycane]

Ray Ray is not a very good safety.

 

[pcitycane]

In theory, but not if we're playing a ton of new guys in the back 7.

Now that a lot of the guys will have been in D'Onofrio's system for a year, he shouldn't have to dumb it down for them and he can at least start disguising some things. I don't think he could do that last year.

But not clear we will be. We have several 4th year players in the secondary, and Buchanon and Gaines ain't spring chickens. And Perryman may be our best defensive player. As long as McGee, VT and RRA contribute, I think we'll see some interesting things from our D. If it winds up being a bunch of first year players, however, I agree with you.

if mcgee contributes....



man,




he wont.

 

[Dynasty]

I think you'll actually see some improvement from last year's eye-popping discomfort with zone. On multiple occasions (UNC, BC and VT stand out), we saw guys so lost in their zones or exchanges that the results were complete breakdowns. I suspect that will happen less this year through sheer repetition. Apart from that, I think a guy like Howard can find himself on the field very early (even if just outside in Nickel sets) because his skillset and approach both fit well into zone schemes. I think D'Ono was handcuffed last year between not having the talent or confidence in players to mix and match press and zone effectively.

Beating a dead horse: the range of our Safeties is also an obvious deterrent to Zone schemes. Even when we played 2 deep last year, I can remember a specific play against VTech where Ray Ray was "in position" over the top, but got his lead feet stuck in the field. The result was a post right at his face.

Honestly, we've struggled playing cover two zone for years. It is not only an issue of carrying receivers through respective zone areas, but it is also a matter of not looking up receivers. We do a poor job of locating and redirecting receivers. As a result, it puts a lot of stress on the safeties.

 

[JHallCanes]

Safety depth is horrifying but CB depth is much improved, especially if Howard can be an immediate starter. Like D said, if McGee can put it together we suddenly have a good group at CB. Been waiting on Telemaque to improve but still waiting. I think the safeties can be OK as long as those two stay healthy.

Defense will be much much better this year if the offense holds up their end.

 

[Bennubird]

Regarding McGee t'would be great, but I'll be surprised if Howard isn't in the starting line before mid season. I would love to see what Finnie can do as well.

McGee is a key guy. If he becomes a solid starter (big, big if), you have a nice complementary top four with McGee, Gunter, Finnie and Howard.

 

[TheSwagger1]

Dynasty - so glad you're here man. Please post as much as ya can.

 

[LuCane]

I think you'll actually see some improvement from last year's eye-popping discomfort with zone. On multiple occasions (UNC, BC and VT stand out), we saw guys so lost in their zones or exchanges that the results were complete breakdowns. I suspect that will happen less this year through sheer repetition. Apart from that, I think a guy like Howard can find himself on the field very early (even if just outside in Nickel sets) because his skillset and approach both fit well into zone schemes. I think D'Ono was handcuffed last year between not having the talent or confidence in players to mix and match press and zone effectively.

Beating a dead horse: the range of our Safeties is also an obvious deterrent to Zone schemes. Even when we played 2 deep last year, I can remember a specific play against VTech where Ray Ray was "in position" over the top, but got his lead feet stuck in the field. The result was a post right at his face.

Honestly, we've struggled playing cover two zone for years. It is not only an issue of carrying receivers through respective zone areas, but it is also a matter of not looking up receivers. We do a poor job of locating and redirecting receivers. As a result, it puts a lot of stress on the safeties.

I think they were even worse in Cover 3, and it's understandable. Firstly, we're almost a decade removed from having a guy who can legitimately play centerfield and provide a single high look. Kenny Phillips was good here, but didn't have *that* special range. I find it almost weird considering we're in South Florida. Secondly, without comfort and experience in passing guys off in the Cover 3, you get a lot of tense/timid players who end up 2-3 steps slow and ultimately staring at each other after the play.

 

[gogeta4]

I think you'll actually see some improvement from last year's eye-popping discomfort with zone. On multiple occasions (UNC, BC and VT stand out), we saw guys so lost in their zones or exchanges that the results were complete breakdowns. I suspect that will happen less this year through sheer repetition. Apart from that, I think a guy like Howard can find himself on the field very early (even if just outside in Nickel sets) because his skillset and approach both fit well into zone schemes. I think D'Ono was handcuffed last year between not having the talent or confidence in players to mix and match press and zone effectively.

Beating a dead horse: the range of our Safeties is also an obvious deterrent to Zone schemes. Even when we played 2 deep last year, I can remember a specific play against VTech where Ray Ray was "in position" over the top, but got his lead feet stuck in the field. The result was a post right at his face.

Honestly, we've struggled playing cover two zone for years. It is not only an issue of carrying receivers through respective zone areas, but it is also a matter of not looking up receivers. We do a poor job of locating and redirecting receivers. As a result, it puts a lot of stress on the safeties.

I think they were even worse in Cover 3, and it's understandable. Firstly, we're almost a decade removed from having a guy who can legitimately play centerfield and provide a single high look. Kenny Phillips was good here, but didn't have *that* special range. I find it almost weird considering we're in South Florida. Secondly, without comfort and experience in passing guys off in the Cover 3, you get a lot of tense/timid players who end up 2-3 steps slow and ultimately staring at each other after the play.

Kenny Phillips could play that range......if u watched him in high school..it was quite comical ..Carol City had dude like 20 yds back there by himself......i would think BM also (meriweather)...

 

[Dynasty]

I think you'll actually see some improvement from last year's eye-popping discomfort with zone. On multiple occasions (UNC, BC and VT stand out), we saw guys so lost in their zones or exchanges that the results were complete breakdowns. I suspect that will happen less this year through sheer repetition. Apart from that, I think a guy like Howard can find himself on the field very early (even if just outside in Nickel sets) because his skillset and approach both fit well into zone schemes. I think D'Ono was handcuffed last year between not having the talent or confidence in players to mix and match press and zone effectively.

Beating a dead horse: the range of our Safeties is also an obvious deterrent to Zone schemes. Even when we played 2 deep last year, I can remember a specific play against VTech where Ray Ray was "in position" over the top, but got his lead feet stuck in the field. The result was a post right at his face.

Honestly, we've struggled playing cover two zone for years. It is not only an issue of carrying receivers through respective zone areas, but it is also a matter of not looking up receivers. We do a poor job of locating and redirecting receivers. As a result, it puts a lot of stress on the safeties.

I think they were even worse in Cover 3, and it's understandable. Firstly, we're almost a decade removed from having a guy who can legitimately play centerfield and provide a single high look. Kenny Phillips was good here, but didn't have *that* special range. I find it almost weird considering we're in South Florida. Secondly, without comfort and experience in passing guys off in the Cover 3, you get a lot of tense/timid players who end up 2-3 steps slow and ultimately staring at each other after the play.

Although cover three is supposed to provide a balanced approach in both run and pass defense, it isn’t that strong against the pass, particularly running it from a 40 front because you’re playing under quarter coverage. As you are well aware, by playing under quarters from a 40 front it requires the outside LB'ers and inverted safety to cover a lot of ground, from defending intermediate curl/hook/slant routes to working downhill to the flats. As a result, it is difficult to squeeze those interior passing windows. I don’t think it was a coincidence that teams worked us using quick perimeter routes and vertical seam routes when aligned in 2x1, 3x1 and 3x2 receiver sets.

I think one reason why we play a lot of cover three, aside from being dictated to by formation, is because of our safeties lack of outstanding range and instincts. By playing three deep defenders there is less ground to cover as compared to cover two. Now, if we ran cover three out of an odd 30 front, where we could get that extra defender down to create under fifth coverage, it becomes a better underneath three deep coverage against the pass. Both fronts are solid against the run because all gaps are accounted for, even against double TE sets, because they’re eight man fronts.

As mentioned regarding cover two, and the same can be said about cover three, we aren’t very good at looking up receivers and redirecting them with force. Very seldom do we see our underneath defenders jump routes when a receiver crosses their face, and we definitely don’t see them knock people off the routes consistently. Another concern I have about our zone coverages is that I’m not sure we have the basic principles of pattern reading down. As you know, pattern reading isn’t as simple as people think, particularly when there are checks and roll coverage calls.

 

[LuCane]

I think you'll actually see some improvement from last year's eye-popping discomfort with zone. On multiple occasions (UNC, BC and VT stand out), we saw guys so lost in their zones or exchanges that the results were complete breakdowns. I suspect that will happen less this year through sheer repetition. Apart from that, I think a guy like Howard can find himself on the field very early (even if just outside in Nickel sets) because his skillset and approach both fit well into zone schemes. I think D'Ono was handcuffed last year between not having the talent or confidence in players to mix and match press and zone effectively.

Beating a dead horse: the range of our Safeties is also an obvious deterrent to Zone schemes. Even when we played 2 deep last year, I can remember a specific play against VTech where Ray Ray was "in position" over the top, but got his lead feet stuck in the field. The result was a post right at his face.

Honestly, we've struggled playing cover two zone for years. It is not only an issue of carrying receivers through respective zone areas, but it is also a matter of not looking up receivers. We do a poor job of locating and redirecting receivers. As a result, it puts a lot of stress on the safeties.

I think they were even worse in Cover 3, and it's understandable. Firstly, we're almost a decade removed from having a guy who can legitimately play centerfield and provide a single high look. Kenny Phillips was good here, but didn't have *that* special range. I find it almost weird considering we're in South Florida. Secondly, without comfort and experience in passing guys off in the Cover 3, you get a lot of tense/timid players who end up 2-3 steps slow and ultimately staring at each other after the play.

Although cover three is supposed to provide a balanced approach in both run and pass defense, it isn’t that strong against the pass, particularly running it from a 40 front because you’re playing under quarter coverage. As you are well aware, by playing under quarters from a 40 front it requires the outside LB'ers and inverted safety to cover a lot of ground, from defending intermediate curl/hook/slant routes to working downhill to the flats. As a result, it is difficult to squeeze those interior passing windows. I don’t think it was a coincidence that teams worked us using quick perimeter routes and vertical seam routes when aligned in 2x1, 3x1 and 3x2 receiver sets.

I think one reason why we play a lot of cover three, aside from being dictated to by formation, is because of our safeties lack of outstanding range and instincts. By playing three deep defenders there is less ground to cover as compared to cover two. Now, if we ran cover three out of an odd 30 front, where we could get that extra defender down to create under fifth coverage, it becomes a better underneath three deep coverage against the pass. Both fronts are solid against the run because all gaps are accounted for, even against double TE sets, because they’re eight man fronts.

As mentioned regarding cover two, and the same can be said about cover three, we aren’t very good at looking up receivers and redirecting them with force. Very seldom do we see our underneath defenders jump routes when a receiver crosses their face, and we definitely don’t see them knock people off the routes consistently. Another concern I have about our zone coverages is that I’m not sure we have the basic principles of pattern reading down. As you know, pattern reading isn’t as simple as people think, particularly when there are checks and roll coverage calls.

If you want to see a comedy of errors w/r/t your point about underneath coverage issues, take a peek at last year's Maryland game. Sure, I realize we were undermanned, but we made that QB look like Drew Brees. Besides getting slaughtered up the seam to the point we had to completely get out of coverage, our LBs basically stood still in their "zone" and created unbelievable gaps between themselves and the coverage over the top. That said, it's not really new. Our LBs' inability to get any kind of depth or effectively play that hook/curl/slant has gone on for years. Again, I find it weird because a guy like RBuch has the physical ability. A guy like Spence had the instinct and athleticism. I wonder if it was a matter of scheme or of teaching (lack thereof).

One example by comparison I'd like to hear you discuss is the fact that VTech does a great job of hiding their rover with their deep drops from the Corners and the emphasis Foster places on forcing opposing QBs into quick decisions. I know we're not going to reinvent the wheel this year and hide all of our deficiencies, but my point is there are, in fact, certain things that we can do. We can hedge a lot better than we did last year. Again, I have no idea, but I openly wonder if that was D'Ono just not being creative enough or simply not being confident (in the players, their grasp of any kind of cohesive zone, or otherwise).