Re: total scholly limits; scholly limits per cycle; EEs.

FreePawn

Last Fvcken Week.
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Mar 4, 2012
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Posted this in another thread, but I thought it might be worth it´s own as all the talk about EEs indicates there´s still some confusion regarding the numbers:

A few facts:

-after all seniors graduate we will have 70 remaining players on scholarship;

-colleges are allowed a max of 85 total players on scholarship;

-colleges are allowed to sign a max 25 players per cycle;

- if a team wants to bring in more than 25 for the following season, they can only do so by having them enroll early and counting them against the previous cycle. This is the situation when EEs become valuable/necessary;

- in 2011, we signed 20 players, but only 19 qualified (Antonio Kinard), allowing us to count 6 of our 32 2012 commits (we only signed 31, see below) as 2011 commits, thus maxing out both classes (2010 was also a full class, making it three in a row);

- the only non-qualifier out of the 2012 group was AJL, who will count against the 2013 total.


As the previous class was maxed out at 25 (Witt and Davis leaving after qualifying and enrolling does not retroactively open up a spot against the previous cycle´s 25, only against the 85 total), we cannot count anyone against the last cycle. Even if we could it would be irrelevant anyway, as EEs do not help us numbers-wise at all this year because we are not trying to exceed the limit of 25 schollies per cycle. Which is why the staff is not pushing for EEs, btw. We are, however, currently up against the 85 limit. Although I think we´d all be shocked if there were no further attrition.

The big question is not whether there will be room for more than 15 or not, but rather whether the staff wants to self impose scholly reductions and keep on grovelling on their knees in front of the NaziAA. I personally would say fvck´em, purge the deadwood off the roster and fill it up with as many studs as you can.
 
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Didn't Thomas Finnie and Olsen Pierre count against the 2010 class?

Nah, 2010 was full, too. EE do not automatically count towards the previous class, only if that class still had room left. In theory, all 25 recruits could be EEs and none of them count towards the previous cycle.
 
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Grayshirting is very rare, because almost all kids elect to go to a different school that will let them in straight away. But theoretically, yeah, if 25 kids were willing to grayshirt, one could have 50 signees in one season (but none the next).

i guess u didnt read this....


This is the first year for a Division I Football Bowl Subdivision rule meant to address the problem of oversigning by establishing a limit of 28 signees.

Whether the rule will achieve the intended effect is open to question. Certainly the math is still a problem. Coaches are limited to 25 new scholarships per year, but with 28 kids committed via the National Letter of Intent, at least three would be left without a scholarship if a program signed the full complement.

25 in fall...28 a cycle

25 a cycle takes affect aug 1 2013...
 
Last edited:
Excellent post Bomb. This clears things up.

Regarding the NCAA and self imposing, not playing in a bowl game is a real tangible action that the NCAA cannot deny. However a lot of teams run under the 85 scholarship limit for one reason or another. How can we be sure the NCAA would accept a self imposed scholarship reduction? We would have to convince them that we turned away kids on our own. I am not exactly sure how we prove that. Has any other school made a similar action in the past?
 
Didn't Thomas Finnie and Olsen Pierre count against the 2010 class?

Nah, 2010 was full, too. EE do not automatically count towards the previous class, only if that class still had room left. In theory, all 25 recruits could be EEs and none of them count towards the previous cycle.

We signed 27 in 2010. Jeremy Davis, Tavadis Glenn, and Delmar Taylor never enrolled, so that brings us down to 24. I believe Chase Ford counted towards 2009 since he came in during the spring, which would bring us down to 23. Which would mean we have 2 spots for EEs in 2011 (Finnie and Pierre), which then gives us 8 EE spots for 2012, which gives us 2 additional EE spots for 2013.
 
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Excellent post Bomb. This clears things up.

Regarding the NCAA and self imposing, not playing in a bowl game is a real tangible action that the NCAA cannot deny. However a lot of teams run under the 85 scholarship limit for one reason or another. How can we be sure the NCAA would accept a self imposed scholarship reduction? We would have to convince them that we turned away kids on our own. I am not exactly sure how we prove that. Has any other school made a similar action in the past?

Was thinking the same thing. In fact, unless we have some assurance from the NCAA that they would take into consideration a self imposed scholarship deduction, I think it makes sense to max out this class as much as we can (the lesser or 25 or however many spots we have open). It would be nice to leave spots open for next year's class as EEs, but depending on how the NCAA imposes scholarship reductions, we could artificially be hurting ourselves even more. Of course, all of this is based on...

Let's say the NCAA hits us with scholarship reductions that start next recruiting cycle and let's say it results in us only having 15 scholarships we can give out a year (please note these numbers are to simplify the math, not what I think will happen). If we only took 15 this year, would we be able to take 25 next year with 10 of them being EEs that count against this recruiting cycle and the other 15 against next year's? (I know there might be an overall roster scholarship deduction too, but let's ignore that for the purposes of this question). Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else already.
 
I'm not sure of a lot of things that Miami does in terms of administration, but I'm pretty sure they can figure out a way to self impose scholarship reductions and have it count. We could easily sign ourselves to 85 this year and have a helluva class doing it.
 


Grayshirting is very rare, because almost all kids elect to go to a different school that will let them in straight away. But theoretically, yeah, if 25 kids were willing to grayshirt, one could have 50 signees in one season (but none the next).

i guess u didnt read this....


This is the first year for a Division I Football Bowl Subdivision rule meant to address the problem of oversigning by establishing a limit of 28 signees.

Whether the rule will achieve the intended effect is open to question. Certainly the math is still a problem. Coaches are limited to 25 new scholarships per year, but with 28 kids committed via the National Letter of Intent, at least three would be left without a scholarship if a program signed the full complement.

25 in fall...28 a cycle

Yeah you´re right, I did skip that bit, lol. Something about that article doesn´t jive, though. It´s 2 years old and it´s the only mention of this that I can find on the internet (maybe my google skills are just totally inadequate). Plus, I have never heard of a team signing 28 without counting at least three against the previous cycle. And I´m not sure if I even quite understand the article, it doesn´t explain how the rule is supposed to work.
 
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Didn't Thomas Finnie and Olsen Pierre count against the 2010 class?

Nah, 2010 was full, too. EE do not automatically count towards the previous class, only if that class still had room left. In theory, all 25 recruits could be EEs and none of them count towards the previous cycle.

We signed 27 in 2010. Jeremy Davis, Tavadis Glenn, and Delmar Taylor never enrolled, so that brings us down to 24. I believe Chase Ford counted towards 2009 since he came in during the spring, which would bring us down to 23. Which would mean we have 2 spots for EEs in 2011 (Finnie and Pierre), which then gives us 8 EE spots for 2012, which gives us 2 additional EE spots for 2013.

Except Ryan Williams enrolled and is being ignored here. Transfer and Walk ons given scholarships count against the 25.
 


Grayshirting is very rare, because almost all kids elect to go to a different school that will let them in straight away. But theoretically, yeah, if 25 kids were willing to grayshirt, one could have 50 signees in one season (but none the next).

i guess u didnt read this....


This is the first year for a Division I Football Bowl Subdivision rule meant to address the problem of oversigning by establishing a limit of 28 signees.

Whether the rule will achieve the intended effect is open to question. Certainly the math is still a problem. Coaches are limited to 25 new scholarships per year, but with 28 kids committed via the National Letter of Intent, at least three would be left without a scholarship if a program signed the full complement.

25 in fall...28 a cycle

25 a cycle takes affect aug 1 2013...

Sorry guys, but I believe you might be mistaken. The 25 per cycle rule has been, and still is, in effect for many years. It refers to the number of SIGNEES who the institution actually ENROLLS in the fall! What the 28 number is, is a limitation on a school SIGNING more players than it will be able to enroll in the fall. In previous years a number of schools would 'oversign' in the spring in anticipation that a certain number would not qualify, or otherwise not be able to enroll. When that failed to materialize, the sc hoo h ad to insist the kid 'greyshirt', or go elsewhere. It gave College football a bad image -- the kud had signed a NLI which prohibited him from going elsewhere, but the school was not requited to enroll him! Thus, the 28 rule was designed to eliminate that problem/embarrassment.
 


Grayshirting is very rare, because almost all kids elect to go to a different school that will let them in straight away. But theoretically, yeah, if 25 kids were willing to grayshirt, one could have 50 signees in one season (but none the next).

i guess u didnt read this....


This is the first year for a Division I Football Bowl Subdivision rule meant to address the problem of oversigning by establishing a limit of 28 signees.

Whether the rule will achieve the intended effect is open to question. Certainly the math is still a problem. Coaches are limited to 25 new scholarships per year, but with 28 kids committed via the National Letter of Intent, at least three would be left without a scholarship if a program signed the full complement.

25 in fall...28 a cycle

25 a cycle takes affect aug 1 2013...

Sorry guys, but I believe you might be mistaken. The 25 per cycle rule has been, and still is, in effect for many years. It refers to the number of SIGNEES who the institution actually ENROLLS in the fall! What the 28 number is, is a limitation on a school SIGNING more players than it will be able to enroll in the fall. In previous years a number of schools would 'oversign' in the spring in anticipation that a certain number would not qualify, or otherwise not be able to enroll. When that failed to materialize, the sc hoo h ad to insist the kid 'greyshirt', or go elsewhere. It gave College football a bad image -- the kud had signed a NLI which prohibited him from going elsewhere, but the school was not requited to enroll him! Thus, the 28 rule was designed to eliminate that problem/embarrassment.



USCw is on probation...they r allowed 15 a year...yet they sign 18...the 25 per cycle rule goes in 2 affect aug 1 2013
 
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Bird4um
could you take zero kids one year and 50 kids the next?

possible but not realistic...

We signed 27 in 2010. Jeremy Davis, Tavadis Glenn, and Delmar Taylor never enrolled, so that brings us down to 24. I believe Chase Ford counted towards 2009 since he came in during the spring, which would bring us down to 23. Which would mean we have 2 spots for EEs in 2011 (Finnie and Pierre), which then gives us 8 EE spots for 2012, which gives us 2 additional EE spots for 2013.

This is what got!


Let's say the NCAA hits us with scholarship reductions that start next recruiting cycle and let's say it results in us only having 15 scholarships we can give out a year (please note these numbers are to simplify the math, not what I think will happen). If we only took 15 this year, would we be able to take 25 next year with 10 of them being EEs that count against this recruiting cycle and the other 15 against next year's? (I know there might be an overall roster scholarship deduction too, but let's ignore that for the purposes of this question). Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else already.

yep that's how it work...
 
The key to all of this that often gets lost is exactly what the OP said. Our limiting factor is the 85 total scholarship limit for the team, NOT the 25 or 28 or whatever for each class. 85 is the magic number so whether we take 15 or 17 or 19, it is limited by the 85 total, not having some EE and backdated to last class opening up more because who cares. 85 is still the cap no matter how you slice it or dice it.
 


Grayshirting is very rare, because almost all kids elect to go to a different school that will let them in straight away. But theoretically, yeah, if 25 kids were willing to grayshirt, one could have 50 signees in one season (but none the next).

i guess u didnt read this....


This is the first year for a Division I Football Bowl Subdivision rule meant to address the problem of oversigning by establishing a limit of 28 signees.

Whether the rule will achieve the intended effect is open to question. Certainly the math is still a problem. Coaches are limited to 25 new scholarships per year, but with 28 kids committed via the National Letter of Intent, at least three would be left without a scholarship if a program signed the full complement.

25 in fall...28 a cycle

25 a cycle takes affect aug 1 2013...

Sorry guys, but I believe you might be mistaken. The 25 per cycle rule has been, and still is, in effect for many years. It refers to the number of SIGNEES who the institution actually ENROLLS in the fall! What the 28 number is, is a limitation on a school SIGNING more players than it will be able to enroll in the fall. In previous years a number of schools would 'oversign' in the spring in anticipation that a certain number would not qualify, or otherwise not be able to enroll. When that failed to materialize, the sc hoo h ad to insist the kid 'greyshirt', or go elsewhere. It gave College football a bad image -- the kud had signed a NLI which prohibited him from going elsewhere, but the school was not requited to enroll him! Thus, the 28 rule was designed to eliminate that problem/embarrassment.



USCw is on probation...they r allowed 15 a year...yet they sign 18...the 25 per cycle rule goes in 2 affect aug 1 2013

USC CAN ONLY HAVE 75 PLAYERS ON SCHOLLY HENCE 18 OUT, 18 IN
 
Didn't Thomas Finnie and Olsen Pierre count against the 2010 class?

Nah, 2010 was full, too. EE do not automatically count towards the previous class, only if that class still had room left. In theory, all 25 recruits could be EEs and none of them count towards the previous cycle.

We signed 27 in 2010. Jeremy Davis, Tavadis Glenn, and Delmar Taylor never enrolled, so that brings us down to 24. I believe Chase Ford counted towards 2009 since he came in during the spring, which would bring us down to 23. Which would mean we have 2 spots for EEs in 2011 (Finnie and Pierre), which then gives us 8 EE spots for 2012, which gives us 2 additional EE spots for 2013.

I´m counting 25 + Chase Ford:

JBarton
JBrown
MBunche
KCain
EClements

ACleveland
TCornelius
DDavis
JFeliciano
CFord

JGaines
MHagens
DHall
SHenderson
AHurns

SJohnson
BLinder
SMcDermott
SMorris
KNelson

KPayne
DPerry
KRodgers
ATallman
CWalford

TWilliams

Non-Qualifiers:

DTaylor
JDavis
TGlenn
 
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