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Randy Shannon " 2 " Canes Elite...

Rellyrell said:
THANK U!!!

Sheesh!!! I don’t know y it’s so hard for ppl to see that.

Which is y that class taught me to stop going by class rank, but rather avg recruit rank. That’s way more accurate.

Prior to that 08 class and after that 08 class, we didn’t hit the top 10 for class ranking or avg recruit ranking. Everyone talks about 08, but that class was never supplemented, plus it was only # 1 b/c we signed 32 f’ing kids!
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Just like Folden's "#8" class in 2012, it had 33 signees. 3/4 of that class was lost to attrition for various reasons.
 
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If you want to assess a class, look at the avg ranking of the top 15 kids, then the same for the next 10, and then deduct points for any signees over 25.

Randy had a good top 15, eh next 10, and wasted too many spots over 25. Ditto for Coker in ‘04.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Agree partly, but not sure if I am misreading you or we disagree on one key point.

Coaches evaluate kids, not ratings. They need to be able to evaluate two kids and take the 3* over the 5*. They are not just evaluating the minor differences after the recruiting services generally rate kids. They shouldn’t pay attention to the rankings, tbh. That is for fans to worry about. The rankings tell us how they are doing because when multiple top staffs want a kid, they get ranked higher. But they do not tell coaches who to recruit. That would be the tail wagging the dog, so to speak. Also they need to evaluate fit for scheme and culture, which is its own issue.

Re the ‘08 class, in addition to awful evals, another issue was way too many kids never even played or hardlly played before leaving the program. Some injuries, some attitudes, some who knows why.
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Yes, I was just using the ratings as an example of two similarly talented kids who play the same position.

I 100% agree that the recruiting sites are for the fans and that no coach worth a **** trusts 247's talent evaluations over his own.
 
lauderdaleballer said:
Too be fair, Shields was doing his own thing. He refused to move to DB until the end of his junior year as well. I don’t think 08 was that bad on talent. As mostly sophomore they won 9 games in 09. The issue is they just never got better especially our top players. Benjamin carved out a solid career and so did Byrd. Hank was 07 but he put in work his last 2 years. But the 4&5 stars like Davon Johnson, Tommy Streeter, & AJ did basically nothing or came on late. And that’s just WR. Jordan Futch & Ramon Buchanan did very little. Also Patrick Peterson leaving hurt us in a multitude of ways. Arthur Brown being here for 2 years then leaving sucked as well.

That class peaked too early.
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There was no leadership before and no one to replace them afterwards. It was truly a freelance class. Those 08 boys never had a chance, truthfully. They didn’t have players to look up to or direct them, and the staph was infectious.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I already pointed out the evals sucked. That has been a big part of our problem since coker.

In any group of 15 four star kids, some will be higher ranked four stars and some lower. Whatever @ that.

However Jacory was not a ”fringe” 4*. He was the No.7 qb in the country per rivals (highest we have gotten since KW).

And for the record, coker’s ‘04 class was a bigger bust than Shannon’s ‘08 class, and it aint close. Coker’s ‘04 class was actually the roster killer that destroyed the program. (‘03 was mostly a wipeout also, thought it had a few gems (Hester, Beason, Olsen) - after ‘04 the collective dead wood on the roster was impossible to overcome.
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Coker’s lost 04 class. Lol.
 
Rellyrell said:
There was no leadership before and no one to replace them afterwards. It was truly a freelance class. Those 08 boys never had a chance, truthfully. They didn’t have players to look up to or direct them, and the staph was infectious.
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THIS. Ppl don’t understand that point. That 2008 class was thrown into the fire and was expected to carry the program. You look at that list of players and it was a good set of guys to be the core of the program. But what we followed their class up with was historically terrible. Many of the signees made absolutely no impact here, didn’t qualify or transferred out..if we had stacked on top of that 2008 class Shannon’s tenure ends differently for sure
 
Rellyrell said:
Exactly; so to both of our points, u can’t just have one good class out of 4, and then expect that one good class to carry the load. U gotta be consistent w recruiting, both class ranking and avg recruit ranking.
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‘10 was actually a decent class.

Linder, McDermott, Feliciano, Seantrel Henderson, Bunche is a heck of an OL class.

Walford was a very good TE, and Cleveland and Ford had ability and both saw NFL rosters, iirc.

Morris was a good QB, maybe our best since Dorsey.

Hurns was a very good WR.

Storm Johnson probably could have been a good RB. Clements contributed.

But every one of those guys was on offense. The defensive recruiting was a total faceplant.
 
What gives me hope after reviewing the old recruiting classes is how much better we can get if we just recruit guys who can contribute. When 80% of your class are non contributors, the program tanks. If we find decent guys and get a few recruiting wins and a few great evals, we can trend up fast.
 
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Randy Shannon is a great recruiter and great defensive coach. His demise at Miami was largely due to the revolving door of offensive coordinators during his tenure. The success of Manny Diaz is largely on the shoulders of Dan Enos. If Enos can stay at Miami for atleast 4 years then Miami should be winning National Championships within that 4 year timeframe.

Randy Shannon and Manny Diaz are very similar.
 
Ethnicsands said:
‘10 was actually a decent class.

Linder, McDermott, Feliciano, Seantrel Henderson, Bunche is a heck of an OL class.

Walford was a very good TE, and Cleveland and Ford had ability and both saw NFL rosters, iirc.

Morris was a good QB, maybe our best since Dorsey.

Hurns was a very good WR.

Storm Johnson probably could have been a good RB. Clements contributed.

But every one of those guys was on offense. The defensive recruiting was a total faceplant.
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I touched upon the 10 class in another thread, but by the time they were able to contribute, that 08 class was already gone, and to your point, all the contributors were on offense.
 
Ethnicsands said:
It was 2 5* kids and 15 4* kids on rivals. Numbers lifted the ranking but that is a top 3 class any year.

The evals were awful however. Not just the top rated kids. The 2* kids all stunk, iirc. The 3* kids too. The top rated kids were clearly better than the lower rated kids, which isn’t surprising.
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@HarpDawg, what are you disagreeing with?

2 5* kids and 15 4* kids is a top 10 class any year. Michigan was 10th ranked in ‘19 with 2 5* kids and 13 4* kids. FSU was 10th in ‘18 with 1 5* kid and 14 4* kids. A&M was 10th in ‘17 with 1 5* kid and 12 4* kids.
 
Da_Lucky_One said:
Randy Shannon is a great recruiter and great defensive coach. His demise at Miami was largely due to the revolving door of offensive coordinators during his tenure. The success of Manny Diaz is largely on the shoulders of Dan Enos. If Enos can stay at Miami for atleast 4 years then Miami should be winning National Championships within that 4 year timeframe.

Randy Shannon and Manny Diaz are very similar.
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Lol at Radio a Great recruiter....and was overrated as a DC.....His same ole same ole Cover 2 was abused the last half of his DC tenure...
 
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Ethnicsands said:
It was 2 5* kids and 15 4* kids on rivals. Numbers lifted the ranking but that is a top 3 class any year.

The evals were awful however. Not just the top rated kids. The 2* kids all stunk, iirc. The 3* kids too. The top rated kids were clearly better than the lower rated kids, which isn’t surprising.
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ANd if I am not mistaken both that class and his equally bloated 2010 class suffered abnormally high attrition.
 
ThomasM said:
Most disappointing #1 class I have ever seen.
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Part of the issue is it was not the no.1 class. It wound up 5th on rivals, and had a significantly lower avg ranking per recruit and fewer 5* kids than the ones above it.

247 ranked it #1, but that was based on sheer size - it still had a lower avg rating per recruit than the next 3.

Rivals was more accurate, in any case.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Part of the issue is it was not the no.1 class. It wound up 5th on rivals, and had a significantly lower avg ranking per recruit and fewer 5* kids than the ones above it.

247 ranked it #1, but that was based on sheer size - it still had a lower avg rating per recruit than the next 3.

Rivals was more accurate, in any case.
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Even #5 would have been a vast over-rating. Lots of stars, very few football players.
 
Rellyrell said:
There was no leadership before and no one to replace them afterwards. It was truly a freelance class. Those 08 boys never had a chance, truthfully. They didn’t have players to look up to or direct them, and the staph was infectious.
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I agree. I really believe they were talented but they didn’t have anyone to look up too. They were freshmen with basically a freshman coach. He was learning and experimenting on the job and they suffered from it. I believe they had the talent to average 10 wins a season. However, discipline and experience was lacking throughout the program.
 
ThomasM said:
Even #5 would have been a vast over-rating. Lots of stars, very few football players.
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correct, the evals were awful, but it takes hindsight to confirm that. Still, just in terms of the facts at the time, it was not no.1 except based on the overall number of kids.
 
pacusmc said:
A good staff would’ve made those kids high draft picks. The blood started gushing after those players you mentioned. The negative recruiting was at an all time high. The kids that were signing during the Shannon years were witness to the dominance and were huge cane fans. The kids now we actually have to recruit and put a product in the field.
I know some people on here have a love for shanon. He’s from here and was a cane. But saying shields was “doing his own thing” is just an excuse for what the program was lacking after butch left.
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I like Shannon but I also believed he should have never got the HC. I mean you can’t totally blame the staff for Shields. If he didn’t finally listen and moved to DB his final year, he wouldn’t have been in the nfl. RS did a lot of wrong but SS wasn’t the most focused player his first 3 years. To be fair if he had 1 more year at corner, I believe he would have been a 3rd round pick. I believe he basically won the wake forest game for us in 09.
 
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