Places to knock down for stadium

[Cane_Mutiny]

None of those situations discussed about upgrading a high school stadium and building new one, building 8-10 new softball/baseball fields, batting cages, playgrounds, basketball and tennis courts, swimming pools, healthcare building/resources, etc. The park will still be a “park” 99.8 % of the year. Imagine being a commissioner and turning that down without touching a tax payers money..

To your point, our corrupted officials could turn a good thing down.

A new CFB stadium would take up a lot more land than the high school stadium does. It would have to eat into the park, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

I thought this phrase in your FSU section was funny----get back to civilization on I-10----. There is no such thing actually.

Not till you hit New Orleans.

 

[Hurracanes]

the reason I said it were up to the commission it could get done is because of the corruption. they wouldn't be able to resist the kickbacks from the contractors and making their friends and themselves rich in the process.

Agreed but it can go the other way with the corrupted, but point taken. According to Ruiz, the voters will say if they want this project to proceed or not. Time will tell what happens.

Once the plans begin to come out in 2-3 months, and there is a formal proposal, we will be able to know if this project is realistic. I think Ruiz understands that in order for this project to be approved he will need to invest in the rest of the park, and make it very difficult for the county to say "no."

 

[mainecane]

Too many pages to read everything...did anyone suggest this?

 

[Hurracanes]

A new CFB stadium would take up a lot more land than the high school stadium does. It would have to eat into the park, no matter how you slice it.

Not exactly sure what your point is but their proposal will include 2 high school stadiums additionally to the Hurricanes stadium.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I thought this phrase in your FSU section was funny----get back to civilization on I-10----. There is no such thing actually.

Jacksonville. Or points south, taking I-10 to I-75.

 

[MainLineCane]

Have you ever been on US1… can you imagine 50,000 people put in South Miami to get home… never happen… why start another thread on a topic we have gone over for 10 years

There's waaaaaaaay over 50,000 on there right now. Where have you been?

 

[rsa coral gables]

wouldn't there have to be a vote to get the tropical park land? if there is a vote it is unlikely to happen. as I have previously stated the palmetto is already a mess. do not think residents would be willing to make it worse.

yes, a county wide vote. i will vote against it.

 

[rsa coral gables]

A new CFB stadium would take up a lot more land than the high school stadium does. It would have to eat into the park, no matter how you slice it.

it will take a vast majority of the park

 

[Hurracanes]

How do u feel about a 55k seat stadium? That might cut the cost down by a couple of mill

I would like 60k minimum but it’s not my money.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

it will take a vast majority of the park

Interesting question, and again, I defer to you as you live in the area.

The industrial area east of the Palmetto - between the Palmetto and the railroad tracks - is there anything in there that could not be relocated? If you could take that land and build all of the parking and some additional green space, you could conceivably double the land (not counting the lakes) of Tropical. Build a few tunnels and/or bridges over 826, and you connect the two sections.

Again, just trying to think outside the box. I do love Tropical, it would be nice to make it both bigger AND better.

 

[MainLineCane]

Gee must be a slow day for someone. **** telling me to STFU. Did I hit a nerve… I don’t really care what you think as I’m older than dirt and have been to games for over 60 years. Big investor in the days. Family built First National Bank of South Miami and the old Security Federal Savings and Loan. Partner was Gene Chivers who was President of the Original Holsum Barkery. I remember when Sunset Place was the Bakery, and had a great Xmas display out front. So if you know the traffic pattern and the people who run CG and South Miami better go for it as they have no interest in a stadium near there nor do the citizens who live there.

LOL

Awwww man Dammit!!!!

Why did you have to do that?

Soon everyone who disagrees with anything on here .....will want to give a rambling long winded life story to justify why they disagree.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Interesting question, and again, I defer to you as you live in the area.

The industrial area east of the Palmetto - between the Palmetto and the railroad tracks - is there anything in there that could not be relocated? If you could take that land and build all of the parking and some additional green space, you could conceivably double the land (not counting the lakes) of Tropical. Build a few tunnels and/or bridges over 826, and you connect the two sections.

Again, just trying to think outside the box. I do love Tropical, it would be nice to make it both bigger AND better.

i don't think constructing parking on the other side of the palmetto is feasible for many reasons including (a) convincing private property owners to sell or invoking eminent domain, (b) it would cost hundreds of millions if not more and (c) it would require bridges over the palmetto to accommodate tens of thousands of people (not feasible).

 

[AL CANE]

Wasn't Lemonis campaigning for Tropical a few years back? There is a reason he stopped.

 

[Felonious Monk]

LOL

Awwww man Dammit!!!!

Why did you have to do that?

Soon everyone who disagrees with anything on here .....will want to give their rambling long winded life story to justify why they disagree.

That's simply not true. I remember once when I had a disagreement with a coworker about whether to use blue or black pens and he said black was better. Well, I argued blue was better because if you signed something, people could tell if it was an original. He countered by telling me that the pens they give out at City National Bank are black and produced one as proof. Well, I accused him of theft because that wasn't his to take and he tried to argue that's why they had so many in the cup. He told me the entire story about how they buy them wholesale and use them as an advertising expense. If he hadn't done that, I'd have never known that anything a business leaves out is free to take, regardless of what the security guard or grocery store manager has to say about it.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

i don't think constructing parking on the other side of the palmetto is feasible for many reasons including (a) convincing private property owners to sell or invoking eminent domain, (b) it would cost hundreds of millions if not more and (c) it would require bridges over the palmetto to accommodate tens of thousands of people (not feasible).

Attaching two pictures of Daytona International.

First, the retail-dining-entertainment-corporate HQ area on the north side of US-92 was all private commercial property that was acquired by ISC (now merged with NASCAR). I have outlined the area in purple highlighter to give a sense of how large that area is. It's bigger than the mall next door. It's about half as large as the speedway itself, which is a 2.5 mile tri-oval track.

Second, there are two pedestrian bridges outlined in green highlighter. Since the superstretch (backstretch) grandstands were knocked down, the frontstretch grandstands can hold 102,000 people, and that is not including the people allowed in the infield (camping). The total number of people in all areas will be between 120,000 and 125,000 this weekend. US-92 is an 8-lane divided road (comparable width to the Palmetto). So, yes, it is very possible to move 100,000 people over pedestrian bridges. And before all of the reconstruction, the Daytona 500 could hold 150,000 to 175,000 people and there was only 1 pedestrian bridge.

Third, there are two tunnels that go under the speedway for infield access, and these are open all race long. You can see the Turn 4 tunnel to the right of the Richard Petty Driving Experience in the first screenshot, and the huge Turn 1 tunnel (18-wheelers can drive through it in both directions at the same time) is just outside of the lower left corner of the screenshot, down by the Cracker Barrel. It would not be difficult at all to build tunnels under the Palmetto that would allow traffic flow for shuttles, buses, etc. on game days, or even to elevate the Palmetto for a half-mile stretch.

Finally, I'll post a second screenshot which shows the remote (and free) parking lots. Shuttles are run constantly before and after the races. I'm not saying this is cheap, but if you think about it, an entire fleet of shuttles is maintained by ISC/NASCAR for what is, essentially, two race weekends per year.

The reason I suggested the commercial/industrial area to the east of 826 is because it could serve as parking for both Tropical AND Doug Barnes park on the north side of Bird. Again, I would love to see MORE park land, and I think that the creation of a common parking area for both parks would allow the existing land to be used more heavily for the park amenities. Don't even get me started on how Disney moves people around, I was just out there for a tax conference.



Retail/dining/entertainment/corporate HQ area in purple (formerly private commercial property purchased by ISC), pedestrian bridges in green:

Free, remote parking (shuttles running all-day on racedays):

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Also, here is a screenshot of Bristol Motor Speedway, which hosted 157,000 fans for the Tennessee-VaTech football game a couple of years ago. This is a half-mile racetrack (Daytona and Talladega are 2.5 mile racetracks). That is a 4-lane divided road to the west of the Speedway. I-81 is to the north and I-26 is to the west.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Attaching two pictures of Daytona International.

First, the retail-dining-entertainment-corporate HQ area on the north side of US-92 was all private commercial property that was acquired by ISC (now merged with NASCAR). I have outlined the area in purple highlighter to give a sense of how large that area is. It's bigger than the mall next door. It's about half as large as the speedway itself, which is a 2.5 mile tri-oval track.

Second, there are two pedestrian bridges outlined in green highlighter. Since the superstretch (backstretch) grandstands were knocked down, the frontstretch grandstands can hold 102,000 people, and that is not including the people allowed in the infield (camping). The total number of people in all areas will be between 120,000 and 125,000 this weekend. US-92 is an 8-lane divided road (comparable width to the Palmetto). So, yes, it is very possible to move 100,000 people over pedestrian bridges. And before all of the reconstruction, the Daytona 500 could hold 150,000 to 175,000 people and there was only 1 pedestrian bridge.

Third, there are two tunnels that go under the speedway for infield access, and these are open all race long. You can see the Turn 4 tunnel to the right of the Richard Petty Driving Experience in the first screenshot, and the huge Turn 1 tunnel (18-wheelers can drive through it in both directions at the same time) is just outside of the lower left corner of the screenshot, down by the Cracker Barrel. It would not be difficult at all to build tunnels under the Palmetto that would allow traffic flow for shuttles, buses, etc. on game days, or even to elevate the Palmetto for a half-mile stretch.

Finally, I'll post a second screenshot which shows the remote (and free) parking lots. Shuttles are run constantly before and after the races. I'm not saying this is cheap, but if you think about it, an entire fleet of shuttles is maintained by ISC/NASCAR for what is, essentially, two race weekends per year.

The reason I suggested the commercial/industrial area to the east of 826 is because it could serve as parking for both Tropical AND Doug Barnes park on the north side of Bird. Again, I would love to see MORE park land, and I think that the creation of a common parking area for both parks would allow the existing land to be used more heavily for the park amenities. Don't even get me started on how Disney moves people around, I was just out there for a tax conference.



Retail/dining/entertainment/corporate HQ area in purple (formerly private commercial property purchased by ISC), pedestrian bridges in green:
View attachment 177893


Free, remote parking (shuttles running all-day on racedays):
View attachment 177895

i get it, but i suspect the land in miami is a little more expensive (being sarcastic) than in daytona. i think the price tag would be north of a billion dollars to buy the land and build the infrastructure. and you would need to use the power of eminent domain. after the Kelo v City of New London case, which is a travesty in my opinion, private property can be taken by and transferred to another private owner by government if there is a related public purpose. that process would take at least 7-10 years all in.

for the reasons i stated earlier, however, , i just dont see tropical working out and again the number 1 reason is that a public park should not be converted into a stadium. that is not the stated goal of a a park.

btw, AD barnes park needs no more parking since it is a very low impact park

 

[TheOriginalCane]

i get it, but i suspect the land in miami is a little more expensive (being sarcastic) than in daytona. i think the price tag would be north of a billion dollars to buy the land and build the infrastructure. and you would need to use the power of eminent domain. after the Kelo v City of New London case, which is a travesty in my opinion, private property can be taken by and transferred to another private owner by government if there is a related public purpose. that process would take at least 7-10 years all in.

for the reasons i stated earlier, however, , i just dont see tropical working out and again the number 1 reason is that a public park should not be converted into a stadium. that is not the stated goal of a a park.

btw, AD barnes park needs no more parking since it is a very low impact park

I do agree with you on cost, generally speaking. I also think that the ramshackle collection of craptastic industrial to the east of 826 is not as nice as the GE Defense campus that ISC purchased in Daytona, though this was decades ago. And if the Ruiz SPAC goes through, he's going to have more money than the France family has. Let's not forget, Ruiz supposedly already owns land where he wants to move CGHS.

I fully acknowledge, my visits to Tropical and Barnes ended in the late 90s (except for a trip to Santa's Enchanted Forest in the 00s).

The eminent domain powers, in my opinion, would not need to be utilized if you had market-value purchase of the industrial land, and there would be no residential displacement. The infrastructure improvements could be funded with municipal bonds.

From an overall standpoint, the area around Tropical is not unlike Golden Glades, with the Palmetto and Shula expressways merging between Bird and Sunset. That area is the bottleneck for South Dade in much the same way that Golden Glades is the bottleneck for North Dade.

Everyone would benefit from elevating Palmetto and Shula, not just for stadium purposes, but for the future. And for traffic flow.

I don't see anything south of 41st Street that couldn't easily relocate. I'd be willing to bet that most of that industrial space is rented, not owned by the actual businesses (except for CubeSmart). Probably the "nicest" stuff in that area is the CubeSmart along 826 and the NAPA Auto Parts on SW 72nd Avenue. And imagine a linear bike and/or horse-riding park that loops SW 41st Street, then goes along the railroad tracks, and comes back north along the Palmetto.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Here's just a few miles of a linear park/trail through Seminole County.

---Multiple parks along the way
---Tunnel UNDER SR-434, an 8-lane divided road (highlighted in purple)
---Pedestrian bridge over Lake Mary Boulevard
---Pedestrian bridge over 17-92
---Pedestrian bridge over I-4

It's possible to do parks and things in very built-up areas, even near interstates and major roads.