Places to knock down for stadium

[AlexCane]

nah. parks are for neighborhoods. it makes no sense for someone in westchester to go 7 miles to doral to go to a park. the votes won't pass., not at the commission nor county wide.

Yeah, I agree with this. Doral is out of the way. Tropical is very centrally located which is why it's always made the most sense for me for a Canes stadium although @rsa coral gables is making a very compelling case against it.

And btw, particularly with the arrival of Cristobal and a great staff, notwithstanding my support for our own stadium, I cannot wait to be tailgating in Hard Rock in a few months. Give me that steaming blacktop and the sun's rays and more heat emanating from the grill, because I am never happier sweaty then I am when I have a glass of good tequila to sip and some steak on the grill and Canes football just a few minutes away.

 

[Rellyrell]

That's because it's been there a hundred years. Kind of like how people largely accepted the trafiic around the Orange Bowl because there's nothing you can do about it, but putting up a new stadium is whole different story.

Bro; we ain’t never had traffic in Inglewood, like ever. Brand new stadium here & traffic is a bih. It is what it is.

 

[DTP]

But can you imagine people accepting the idea of parking on someone's lawn with a brand new stadium? People accept things evolving into a certain way and having to accomodate, they won't tolerate building that into the beginning.

I would feel like thats a step back tbh

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

to prove this point, there is a development in downtown Coral Gables that all in must be near the $700,000,000 range. there is one guy that refused to sell his house even though he was offered millions. as a matter of principle, he won't sell and said he will die in that house. see the yellow area in the image.

My friend did the legal on some of the land acquisition for Hudson Yards in NYC. IIRC there was an old guy with a lifelong lease on an apt. He didn't even own it. In the end, he got like $22M to walk. From a small, rundown apt lease.

EDIT: It was two guys, and they got $25M AND FREE luxury apartments!!

Hudson Yards Holdouts Get $25M From Developers

Tishman Speyer can finally move forward with their major Hudson Yards development now that they've settled with two holdout tenants in court. Crain's and the Post report that the two men who shared...

ny.curbed.com

 

[rsa coral gables]

Yeah, I agree with this. Doral is out of the way. Tropical is very centrally located which is why it's always made the most sense for me for a Canes stadium although @rsa coral gables is making a very compelling case against it.

And btw, particularly with the arrival of Cristobal and a great staff, notwithstanding my support for our own stadium, I cannot wait to be tailgating in Hard Rock in a few months. Give me that steaming blacktop and the sun's rays and more heat emanating from the grill, because I am never happier sweaty then I am when I have a glass of good tequila to sip and some steak on the grill and Canes football just a few minutes away.

win and you'll be very very happy sipping your tequila and grilling and the trek to HRS won't bother you and you won't even remember advocating for a new stadium. i'm dead serious

 

[rsa coral gables]

But can you imagine people accepting the idea of parking on someone's lawn with a brand new stadium? People accept things evolving into a certain way and having to accomodate, they won't tolerate building that into the beginning.

it was tolerated at the orange bowl because it was built decades before zoning laws were enacted. in fact the orange bowl was built in its location because it was out in the relative suburbs and swampland, relatively far away from the city center.

now, there are strict codes that require x number of parking spaces for each square foot of construction. let's assume it is a 70,000 seat stadium and that each car traveling to the game has 3 occupants, you would need 23,000 parking spaces (all assumptions).

 

[Jonnyblaze]

win and you'll be very very happy sipping your tequila and grilling and the trek to HRS won't bother you and you won't even remember advocating for a new stadium. i'm dead serious

Yeah, this. Winning is the key. HRS will never be the OB, but it can be a solid home field advantage. Plus, a lot of people who attend games come from Broward and Palm Beach and HRS is perfect for that.

 

[Allabouttheu95]

Hard rock is great. Really not a fan of them turning it into a sports amusement park outside of the stadium but whatever. 2 things that have to get fixed if it’s our home long term:

Seat coloring: the aqua is embarrassing. Makes empty seats stick out like a sore thumb. Change it back to orange.

Endzones: not changing out the endzones lettering/font is pathetic. UM needs to get this fixed. Its especially Embarrassing when the dolphins wear their retro’s and they change the end zone for that.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

melreese is a ****ty golf course that is under used, it does have baseball fields, a pool and other amenities. the difference is that all of that will conserved because the stadium is significantly smaller and there will be significant underground parking. in fact, one of the selling points of the deal is that there will be a 60 acre open area field for tree huggers to feel in unison with the earth.

to build a 60k or 70k stadium at tropical would require a ton of structured parking or taking almost the entire park for parking.

Fair points. I used to go out to Melreese with my fraternity brothers, back in the 80s. Did you know it was named (renamed) for a Miami City Manager by the name of Mel Reese?

I believe the footprint of the soccer stadium and whatever football stadium we could construct would be similar, but soccer does NOT have the same parking/tailgating needs. A lot of the US soccer stadiums only open their gates 1 hour before gametime, and there is more of a "march to the match" tradition than a tailgating tradition.

I was just curious about Melreese, I haven't played there since the early 90s. I know there was supposed to have been some sort of renovation a couple of decades ago, I just wasn't sure if Miami ever prioritized the improvement of that park, it has always suffered from being THISCLOSE to M.I.A.

 

[JD08]

Bro; we ain’t never had traffic in Inglewood, like ever. Brand new stadium here & traffic is a bih. It is what it is.

You also had the land to build one at a place that already has traffic flow because of the Forum. There's nothing even comparable near Tropical Park.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

i'm not trying to be condescending here, but do you know how hard it is to get long-time residents to willingly leave their homes, even if you give them a more modern option and buckets of money? "better" is entirely relative.

I understand what you are saying, and I respect that. I realize that "a stadium" would involve a larger-scale relocation than what we usually see. I was just pointing out that there has been ongoing relocation for decades, usually due to smaller scale redevelopment, and not limited to "economically depressed" areas. I watched plenty of that happen in and around Miami Beach from the 1980s until now, and it wasn't "just" the poorest areas.

I also come from a very poor blue-collar background, and if I showed you where members of my family lived (even up until recent times), you would realize that I don't take this stuff lightly. It is a very tricky subject. I absolutely empathize with affordable housing, but I also think it is a problematic issue to consistently "lock people into" the same decaying buildings with substandard electricity and plumbing "just because those buildings are there". Yes, "better" is relative, and just as wealthy people tear down houses and build new mansions, so too must affordable housing be renewed after decades when buildings fall into disrepair.

It's hard. We have to be honest. Let's not pretend that the apartments around the Orange Bowl were in good shape IN THE 1980s, let alone today. I'd just like for there to be some economic and political incentives for building NEW affordable housing, and if that involves building new stuff a few blocks away from old stuff that could be re-purposed for a stadium, I'm fine with that.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

it was tolerated at the orange bowl because it was built decades before zoning laws were enacted. in fact the orange bowl was built in its location because it was out in the relative suburbs and swampland, relatively far away from the city center.

now, there are strict codes that require x number of parking spaces for each square foot of construction. let's assume it is a 70,000 seat stadium and that each car traveling to the game has 3 occupants, you would need 23,000 parking spaces (all assumptions).

All valid points.

I do think that the zoning rules need to be revisited in light of the rise of ride-sharing, and particularly if Dade ever extended MetroRail to Hard Rock (as has been planned) or any other potential stadium location.

 

[pacusmc]

What about any land west of the turnpike over there by Doral? They just built a huge strip mall with a Home Depot just west of dolphin Mall across the turnpike. I can imagine there’s tons of land there and you wouldn’t have to move anybody out. Also there’s a bunch of dredging companies out there and concrete companies out there so the transportation cost for any of that stuff should be reduced.

 

[Rellyrell]

You also had the land to build one at a place that already has traffic flow because of the Forum. There's nothing even comparable near Tropical Park.

Question: Is Tropical Park near or in a residential zoned area?

 

[Bunker Mentality]

It is absurd to even consider demolishing all of those homes to build a stadium nowhere near campus. There are about 100 hundred homes and hundreds of apartments under construction and in development within a mile. There is a shortage of affordable housing throughout Miami-Dade and it is being addressed in that community. Tropical Park is the only real option too me.

You can move about 50 homes and build the New OB next to Marlins Park by incorporating surrounding lots owned by the stadium, homes for sale and vacant lots in the neighborhood, to relocate 50 residences within 1 mile of where they currently live with some additional financial incentive. Conceivably, everyone south of the stadium from NW 2nd to NW 3rd and from 14th to 16th Ave could be relocated for ~50-75M. Either take 1M to move or relocate locally with a 500K kicker.

 

[JD08]

Question: Is Tropical Park near or in a residential zoned area?

Yes, it spans from 40th to 56th streets and has the Palmetto Expressway as its East boundary. It was a horse racing track that closed in the early 70's.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Question: Is Tropical Park near or in a residential zoned area?

Major expressway on the east side (and industrial on the other side of the expressway). Major road on the north, with commercial development. Heavy residential (homes) to the west, and a mixed bag (residential, some commercial, roadways) to the south.

 

[AlexCane]

What about any land west of the turnpike over there by Doral? They just built a huge strip mall with a Home Depot just west of dolphin Mall across the turnpike. I can imagine there’s tons of land there and you wouldn’t have to move anybody out. Also there’s a bunch of dredging companies out there and concrete companies out there so the transportation cost for any of that stuff should be reduced.

Even if that's feasible, the location is no better (maybe worse) than Hard Rock.

 

[rsa coral gables]

What about any land west of the turnpike over there by Doral? They just built a huge strip mall with a Home Depot just west of dolphin Mall across the turnpike. I can imagine there’s tons of land there and you wouldn’t have to move anybody out. Also there’s a bunch of dredging companies out there and concrete companies out there so the transportation cost for any of that stuff should be reduced.

what's the difference between going to west doral and north miami? you don't resolve the apparent problem (a stadium far from campus).

 

[pacusmc]

Even if that's feasible, the location is no better (maybe worse) than Hard

It would be closer to campus. The only people objecting to a dade county stadium are people to the north where I live or even further. But if it’s about getting revenue from the stadium then anywhere besides hard rock is better. But as others have said: They better knock it out of the park. Hard rock is a great place to watch a game and the home field advantage hasn’t been taken advantage of by the last 2 staffs.