Phillip Dorsett

[Jedi Master Cane]

I realize I'm in the minority here...but I've actually seen things in his game I DON'T like. Not to say he's not a good player...but I don't think he'll ever be great.

He's great in a straight line...a guy you can send on a 9 route and he will gain separation. That same speed allows him to get separation on things like hitches and slants because corners are forced to respect the speed. So I've established I have no issue with anyone who says his separation skills aren't good.

I won't even get into the hands thing...guys drop balls. It could be a recurring issue and it might not be....still too early to judge in that regard. My issue with Dorsett is his run after the catch ability, or lack thereof. He's got that typy-toe thing going that guys tend to keep forever. He's not explosive once the ball is in his hands and he's doesn't have the wiggle you'd expect out of someone with that skill set. He hesitates a lot with the ball in his hands doesn't make guys miss. He also runs hunched over which just further slows him down. I think some of it is the fact he doesn't have that knack for spotting lanes in traffic...what most of refer to as vision, in a football sense.

In my humble opinion...he's a Randall Hill type. A burner....a guy who's straight line speed is undeniable and is an asset. However....I just have a feeling he'll never be "great". The great ones tend to be guys who were dangerous AFTER the catch, in traffic, WITH the ball in their hands. He's just not that type of player.

Again...just my opinion. Overall I like him and the fact he's got a very specific role is a good thing.

Dorsett is not a straight-line speed guy. Watch him run routes-- he sinks his hips and gets out of his breaks as well as anyone on the team (along with Malcolm Lewis). Against USF, he tore them up all over the field without one catch over 10 yards.

As for Dorsett's running after the catch, I agree. That's not his game. There are plenty of great receivers who don't run that well after the catch.

What will make Dorsett a record-breaking player here is his combination of downfield speed and slot receiver skills. Most guys are one or the other.

I usually agree with most of your posts but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

He's a PURE straight line speed guy IMO. It's not the sinking of the hips that gains him separation...it's the fact that everyone in America knows he's fast and corners end up either playing off him or over compensate for the threat of the deep ball.

As for the slot thing...I'm going to have to disagree there as well. To me the best slot guys are jitterbug types. Short area quickness guys. I was a huge fan of Theron Collier for that reason. I don't see that skill set at all from Dorsett. He's stiff once the ball hits his hands and he doesn't have great vision in traffic. For my money the best slot receiver on the team RIGHT NOW is Malcom Lewis. His skill set fits in perfectly to that role.

And I'm going to have to disagree with the "plenty of great receivers who don't run that well after the catch" statement. I'd be curious to hear some examples from you in that regard cause I can't think of any. Then again...your definition of a "great" receiver might differ from mine since we're entering subjective territory.

Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson......I think we'd all conclude those are 4 of the greatest receivers in the last 25-30 years....all of them lethal after the catch. I know that's a huge leap in talent from the likes of Dorsett but when I think of a "great" receiver.....the only thing that comes to mind are guys that are great after the catch. If we look at "great" college receivers....even a guy like Peter Warrick (who was a beast in college but never translated to the pro game) was also a great after the catch guy.

I just don't think Dorsett is a great receiver. He's good and has a very specific skill set which is an asset. But I don't see greatness there. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[dg151]

Marvin Harrison did nothing after the catch ever. He was pretty decent.

 

[AlexCane]

I realize I'm in the minority here...but I've actually seen things in his game I DON'T like. Not to say he's not a good player...but I don't think he'll ever be great.

He's great in a straight line...a guy you can send on a 9 route and he will gain separation. That same speed allows him to get separation on things like hitches and slants because corners are forced to respect the speed. So I've established I have no issue with anyone who says his separation skills aren't good.

I won't even get into the hands thing...guys drop balls. It could be a recurring issue and it might not be....still too early to judge in that regard. My issue with Dorsett is his run after the catch ability, or lack thereof. He's got that typy-toe thing going that guys tend to keep forever. He's not explosive once the ball is in his hands and he's doesn't have the wiggle you'd expect out of someone with that skill set. He hesitates a lot with the ball in his hands doesn't make guys miss. He also runs hunched over which just further slows him down. I think some of it is the fact he doesn't have that knack for spotting lanes in traffic...what most of refer to as vision, in a football sense.

In my humble opinion...he's a Randall Hill type. A burner....a guy who's straight line speed is undeniable and is an asset. However....I just have a feeling he'll never be "great". The great ones tend to be guys who were dangerous AFTER the catch, in traffic, WITH the ball in their hands. He's just not that type of player.

Again...just my opinion. Overall I like him and the fact he's got a very specific role is a good thing.

Dorsett is not a straight-line speed guy. Watch him run routes-- he sinks his hips and gets out of his breaks as well as anyone on the team (along with Malcolm Lewis). Against USF, he tore them up all over the field without one catch over 10 yards.

As for Dorsett's running after the catch, I agree. That's not his game. There are plenty of great receivers who don't run that well after the catch.

What will make Dorsett a record-breaking player here is his combination of downfield speed and slot receiver skills. Most guys are one or the other.

I usually agree with most of your posts but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

He's a PURE straight line speed guy IMO. It's not the sinking of the hips that gains him separation...it's the fact that everyone in America knows he's fast and corners end up either playing off him or over compensate for the threat of the deep ball.

As for the slot thing...I'm going to have to disagree there as well. To me the best slot guys are jitterbug types. Short area quickness guys. I was a huge fan of Theron Collier for that reason. I don't see that skill set at all from Dorsett. He's stiff once the ball hits his hands and he doesn't have great vision in traffic. For my money the best slot receiver on the team RIGHT NOW is Malcom Lewis. His skill set fits in perfectly to that role.

And I'm going to have to disagree with the "plenty of great receivers who don't run that well after the catch" statement. I'd be curious to hear some examples from you in that regard cause I can't think of any. Then again...your definition of a "great" receiver might differ from mine since we're entering subjective territory.

Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson......I think we'd all conclude those are 4 of the greatest receivers in the last 25-30 years....all of them lethal after the catch. I know that's a huge leap in talent from the likes of Dorsett but when I think of a "great" receiver.....the only thing that comes to mind are guys that are great after the catch. If we look at "great" college receivers....even a guy like Peter Warrick (who was a beast in college but never translated to the pro game) was also a great after the catch guy.

I just don't think Dorsett is a great receiver. He's good and has a very specific skill set which is an asset. But I don't see greatness there. Hope I'm wrong.

I probably shouldn't butt into this, but I think you guys are discussing different subjects.

D is suggesting that he isn't a guy capable of simply running a go route, but that he can run different routes that require planting and hip fluidity, which I believe is true.

You are suggesting that after the catch he's a straight-ahead runner. (Which I'd agree with. He just doesn't know what to do when he has a defender in front of him.)

/at least this is how I read the disagreement.

 

[Miami82]

Marvin Harrison did nothing after the catch ever. He was pretty decent.

The phins would disagree.

 

[LuCane]

Marvin Harrison did nothing after the catch ever. He was pretty decent.

Whoa. Although I understand you were talking about YAC, Marvin Harrison and Dorsett are on different planets.

If Dorsett breaks records here, it's because of the style of play, the number of times we will air it out and the fact he doesn't have to share the ball with a star. Punto y Final.

 

[dg151]

My point was there is an all time great receiver who wasn't much of a threat after the catch, nothing else.

 

[DMoney]

If Dorsett breaks records here, it's because of the style of play, the number of times we will air it out and the fact he doesn't have to share the ball with a star. Punto y Final.

And the fact that he's good at getting open and catching the football.

Nobody is saying he's better than Santana Moss, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison or anyone else. But he is going to be an excellent receiver and the numbers will reflect that.

 

[LuCane]

If Dorsett breaks records here, it's because of the style of play, the number of times we will air it out and the fact he doesn't have to share the ball with a star. Punto y Final.

And the fact that he's good at getting open and catching the football.

Nobody is saying he's better than Santana Moss, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison or anyone else. But he is going to be an excellent receiver and the numbers will reflect that.

Sure. But, I think the numbers will be skewed. What do you project him as an NFL player, for example? Can you see him being better than Lance Moore? I suppose my point is that Lance Moore breaking records at Miami would have to be explained.

 

[DMoney]

If Dorsett breaks records here, it's because of the style of play, the number of times we will air it out and the fact he doesn't have to share the ball with a star. Punto y Final.

And the fact that he's good at getting open and catching the football.

Nobody is saying he's better than Santana Moss, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison or anyone else. But he is going to be an excellent receiver and the numbers will reflect that.

Sure. But, I think the numbers will be skewed. What do you project him as an NFL player, for example? Can you see him being better than Lance Moore? I suppose my point is that Lance Moore breaking records at Miami would have to be explained.

I see him going top two rounds at this rate. In today's NFL, his ability to separate will be highly valued. Good kid, will run sub-4.4, should leave school pretty polished.

I've used the Eddie Royal comparison in the past, but he'll be a rich man's version IMO.

 

[AlexCane]

Oh, D, c'mon. I've defended PD in this thread, but top 2 rounds? He's tiny, man. That's going to scare off teams. Lu is right that kid is best served in the slot. Will an NFL team take a WR in the top 2 rounds that's more adept in the slot than out wide?

 

[DMoney]

Oh, D, c'mon. I've defended PD in this thread, but top 2 rounds? He's tiny, man. That's going to scare off teams.

Same size as Eddie Royal, who went in the top part of Round 2. Titus Young is a more recent guy that comes to mind.

Size isn't as important with the modern contact rules. Guys who can quickly separate like Welker and Amendola thrive. As Lu mentioned, Santana came out a decade too soon.

Then again, I bombed Streeter and Miller's projections last year so I'm cold right now. But Dorsett projects well if he stays on his current track.

 

[LuCane]

Oh, D, c'mon. I've defended PD in this thread, but top 2 rounds? He's tiny, man. That's going to scare off teams.

Same size as Eddie Royal, who went in the top part of Round 2. Titus Young is a more recent guy that comes to mind.

Size isn't as important with the modern contact rules. Guys who can quickly separate like Welker and Amendola thrive. As Lu mentioned, Santana came out a decade too soon.

Then again, I bombed Streeter and Miller's projections last year so I'm cold right now. But Dorsett projects well if he stays on his current track.

The two most comparable WRs of the past few years are probably Titus Young (as you mentioned) and Broyles. I think both of them are more dynamic than Dorsett. I think this convo is probably a little premature, as I don't see PD leaving early and he has 2 entire seasons left.

 

[dg151]

Kendall Wright was all of 5-10 196 and went in the first, Dorsett could be close to that by the time he leaves. But without a doubt way too early to predict where he goes, though 2nd round isn't really unreasonable for a guy with his vertical ability.

 

[CyberCane]

I realize I'm in the minority here...but I've actually seen things in his game I DON'T like. Not to say he's not a good player...but I don't think he'll ever be great.

He's great in a straight line...a guy you can send on a 9 route and he will gain separation. That same speed allows him to get separation on things like hitches and slants because corners are forced to respect the speed. So I've established I have no issue with anyone who says his separation skills aren't good.

I won't even get into the hands thing...guys drop balls. It could be a recurring issue and it might not be....still too early to judge in that regard. My issue with Dorsett is his run after the catch ability, or lack thereof. He's got that typy-toe thing going that guys tend to keep forever. He's not explosive once the ball is in his hands and he's doesn't have the wiggle you'd expect out of someone with that skill set. He hesitates a lot with the ball in his hands doesn't make guys miss. He also runs hunched over which just further slows him down. I think some of it is the fact he doesn't have that knack for spotting lanes in traffic...what most of refer to as vision, in a football sense.

In my humble opinion...he's a Randall Hill type. A burner....a guy who's straight line speed is undeniable and is an asset. However....I just have a feeling he'll never be "great". The great ones tend to be guys who were dangerous AFTER the catch, in traffic, WITH the ball in their hands. He's just not that type of player.

Again...just my opinion. Overall I like him and the fact he's got a very specific role is a good thing.

Dorsett is not a straight-line speed guy. Watch him run routes-- he sinks his hips and gets out of his breaks as well as anyone on the team (along with Malcolm Lewis). Against USF, he tore them up all over the field without one catch over 10 yards.

As for Dorsett's running after the catch, I agree. That's not his game. There are plenty of great receivers who don't run that well after the catch.

What will make Dorsett a record-breaking player here is his combination of downfield speed and slot receiver skills. Most guys are one or the other.

I think this is a really good assessment, though I think he might get a lot better at making the first guy miss. He's still a young player and young players usually still have a lot going through their mind over the course of a route. When he becomes a little more natural and doesn't have to think his way through plays as much, I think he might be freed up to make guys miss. As a technician, if he works on two moves he can use after the catch, I think he will be successful. I think his case of the drops was a prime example of a young player that still has a decent amount going on upstairs over the course of a play. He'll play even faster next year.