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OT - The 3-3-5 defensive scheme

DTP said:
Exactly. An OLB who lines up at DE. Two traditional inside linebackers, two corners, two safeties and a nickel who’s a hybrid linebacker/safety. That’s the modern 3-3-5.

Miami only had a safety playing linebacker this year because they had no linebackers. In a perfect world Keontra Smith, who was a converted safety, would play the hybrid nickel spot.
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And actual personnel tells the rest. I mentioned that Cincy was running a more modern 3-3-5 stack defense against us. The defensive line featured two smaller defensive tackle types and an undersized defensive end lined up over the tackle.

Bill O’Brien, has built a career on patient offenses that work to exploit linebackers in the 7-10 yard range of the field, and Cincy was built for excruciatingly long drives and a big day from Brian Robinson, particularly against an undersized 3-man front. B-Rob ended up over 200 yards rushing and the team had about 300 total for the game. You ain't beating BAMA with that personnel combo.
 
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Goulds Cane said:
What up guys. It's the down South insider Goulds Cane.

When I was playing football, I knew nothing about schemes. I literally just did what I was told. I played offensive line & nose tackle in Pop Warner, defensive end in a 5-2 my first two years of high school then middle linebacker in a 4-3 my last two. I played weakside linebacker in a 4-3 in college. I kinda started learning more in college, but most of my time was spent hooping in the rec center & chasing around Midwestern white women.

Two schools I really like are San Diego State and Iowa State. Iowa State has made a power move from Power 5 doormat to one of the best teams in CFB under Matt Campbell. SDSU always just hangs around as one of the best G5 teams in the country, and they pump out NFL prospects. Both teams have a 3-3-5 base defense. I know it helps against modern spread passing attackers, but it is feasible for Miami? Are the personnel in the 3 man front similar to the 3-4, where you have 2 300 pound defensive ends & a morbidly obese nose tackle? Are the 3 linebackers similar to the 3 LBs in the 4-3? Is the 5th DB a striker? Honestly, how much different is a free safety from a strong safety? Are there any good 3-3-5 coordinators that are interested in coming to Miami? Why I can't come thru in that pecan Jag?
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Mario has already said he wants 4 DL playing. He's selling Shemar Stewart on the idea.
 
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TUSKtimes said:
And actual personnel tells the rest. I mentioned that Cincy was running a more modern 3-3-5 stack defense against us. The defensive line featured two smaller defensive tackle types and an undersized defensive end lined up over the tackle.

Bill O’Brien, has built a career on patient offenses that work to exploit linebackers in the 7-10 yard range of the field, and Cincy was built for excruciatingly long drives and a big day from Brian Robinson, particularly against an undersized 3-man front. B-Rob ended up over 200 yards rushing and the team had about 300 total for the game. You ain't beating BAMA with that personnel combo.
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Definitely not when your Cincy.

Wouldn’t beat your chest too hard for BOB, that was a vanilla scheme against Cincy to dominate them. Look at your OL, their DL and yep that’s what you should do.

Against UGA the offense was anemic and there were zero adjustments made to adapt for the pressure they were bringing. Had no rooting interest, but you guys should’ve walked away with that game. Left your QB hanging ALOT. No roll outs, misdirection. Nothing to slow them down and get them thinking instead of playing fast. Granted that GA D was really good.
 
There are two bases a 40 or 30 front, or odd and even, which essentially tells me how many down linemen you have.

You can run a 2 gap or 1 gap system out of both of them, everything behind it is just personelle based on offense formation/personnelle.

There isn't such a thing as Base défense anymore. You adjust to your opponent if not you end up getting left in the dust. It's exactly why Manny sucked.

If a team runs double TE FB and TB 50 percent of the time, you trotting out with a 335 because that's my "base"? No, unless you're a loser, which Manny did, see vs mich st. Embarassing how people get paid a lot of money for these decisions.
 
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Arehel said:
There are two bases a 40 or 30 front, or odd and even, which essentially tells me how many down linemen you have.

You can run a 2 gap or 1 gap system out of both of them, everything behind it is just personelle based on offense formation/personnelle.

There isn't such a thing as Base défense anymore. You adjust to your opponent if not you end up getting left in the dust. It's exactly why Manny sucked.

If a team runs double TE FB and TB 50 percent of the time, you trotting out with a 335 because that's my "base"? No, unless you're a loser, which Manny did, see vs mich st. Embarassing how people get paid a lot of money for these decisions.
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You should always be flexible and be able to adjust to the opponent. The reason “base” gets thrown around a lot is because most teams generally play with 11 personnel and most teams use a no huddle offense at least part time. You have to play some type of nickel against 11 personnel and if the opponent isn’t huddling, you can’t sub guys in and out. The general catch all defenses for those situations usually incorporate an extra DB but like you said, if the opponent in running 12 or 21 personnel, you have to alter your defensive personnel because the nickel guy (whatever you want to call him “striker”, “star” “rover”) is going to get manhandled by a blocking tight end in a power scheme.

I know “multiple” gets thrown around a lot and a lot of people don’t really understand what it means but it’s pretty much mandatory in today’s game. You have to have guys with positional versatility and you have to have as many different looks on defense as possible without having to make wholesale substitutions to do it.
 
frostycane said:
Definitely not when your Cincy.

Wouldn’t beat your chest too hard for BOB, that was a vanilla scheme against Cincy to dominate them. Look at your OL, their DL and yep that’s what you should do.

Against UGA the offense was anemic and there were zero adjustments made to adapt for the pressure they were bringing. Had no rooting interest, but you guys should’ve walked away with that game. Left your QB hanging ALOT. No roll outs, misdirection. Nothing to slow them down and get them thinking instead of playing fast. Granted that GA D was really good.
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That's all we needed against Cincy. Man up and run the ball straight downhill. Overthinking football will get you in trouble. Cincy wasn't particularly dynamic on offense and our DL quickly made them very one-dimensional. The problem most teams have with BAMA on film is they see a team that threw for north of 4500 yards and quickly forget that this team can run downhill if need be. Watch the Ole Miss game. Kiffin comes into Bryant Denny telling everyone to get their popcorn. BAMA ran the ball for 4 quarters and the rebels were scoreless at the half. Another 3-3-5 stack defense.

We played Georgia twice. Once when we had an All-American WR in Jameson Williams and an all-SEC receiver in Metchie, which we lost in the first half for the playoffs. We also lost our starting center Dalcourt for the rest of the playoff in the SECCG and had a true freshman running 3rd on the depth chart finish that game. Still won 41-24. We also lost 3 running backs to season-ending knee injuries. Staying healthy on offense was as much about it as anything. If you look at the second Georgia game you will also see Agiye Hall and a few other youngsters drop TDs.
 
DTP said:
You should always be flexible and be able to adjust to the opponent. The reason “base” gets thrown around a lot is because most teams generally play with 11 personnel and most teams use a no huddle offense at least part time. You have to play some type of nickel against 11 personnel and if the opponent isn’t huddling, you can’t sub guys in and out. The general catch all defenses for those situations usually incorporate an extra DB but like you said, if the opponent in running 12 or 21 personnel, you have to alter your defensive personnel because the nickel guy (whatever you want to call him “striker”, “star” “rover”) is going to get manhandled by a blocking tight end in a power scheme.

I know “multiple” gets thrown around a lot and a lot of people don’t really understand what it means but it’s pretty much mandatory in today’s game. You have to have guys with positional versatility and you have to have as many different looks on defense as possible without having to make wholesale substitutions to do it.
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You're correct regarding substitution, but the difference between a strong safety, nickel, or Sam backer player are so minimal and are more or less based on measureables.

What I was referring to adjustments like Manny vs MSU... There weren't any, he played his "striker" out there, sniffing the box at 6 yards off, when when they have TE, FB and a TB. As soon as I saw that I knew we were gonna lose and get ran all over.

Regardless of personnelle, your alignment should be proper, for aiming points and leverage, those players still have to block or tackle. That what I care about and that's what matters more, pre snap alignment is the number one thing for defense. I know myself and @Coach Macho were pulling out our hair with Manny defense cause it was fundamentally unsound as a base because of the previously mentioned.
I'll use Lashlee as an example, when he ran trips to the weakside of the field, a DC has a really tough time dealing with that formation, cause it's 100 percent pick your poison and why it works, look into yourself and figure out the weakness as a DC against that, you'll figure it out. Used that myself as an OC.

Manny was terrible for this, not entirely sure he knew what he was doing and relied simply on making a mess, do whatever you want and have the back end clean it up, which is a nightmare.
 
ive always wanted to dive deep into better understanding defensive/offensive schemes like LCE, Lance, or Roman fully explain. i love finding old playbooks and reading thru them.
 
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Kevin said:
ive always wanted to dive deep into better understanding defensive/offensive schemes like LCE, Lance, or Roman fully explain. i love finding old playbooks and reading thru them.
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There are a ton of google searches you can do where experienced Xs and Os analysts have gone through a playcaller's scheme at a given time.
 
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Salavea was adamant that they'll be running a 4-front. He loves the young talent we have at DT.
Stroud also told me that they'll be a 4-2-5 structure and he thinks they have a lot of guys in the building who can play the strong-side Nickel spot. (or Star or Striker or whatever the **** they'll call it)

They didn't say anything about WHO the guy will be, just that they're looking at mostly 4-2-5 type guys.
 
Coach Macho said:
I was told today that we'll be playing a 4-2-5.
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Figured, like mentioned before by @Liberty City Canes the roster make-up favors this front. However, were you told that’s the vision entirely, or just until we get the personnel for anything different?

What some people (not you specifically) fail to realize is that the 3-3-5 isn’t that much different from the philosophy of the 4 man front. Some believe, 3 down lineman means 300+ pounders across the LOS, which is false. Yes, you need a plug in the middle but that’s handled by a Jordan Miller or Allen Haye (in a shade technique) the ends can be JHH, LT, Roberts, or the new transfer. who would be responsible for disrupting gaps. The 3-3-5 is meant to still have undersized lineman that cause disruption and affect the LOS for backers and rovers to run free and make plays.

Here’s a link to explain the 3-3-5 in better depth:

www2.dailyorange.com

Syracuse’s new 3-3-5 defense, explained

Syracuse hired Tony White to implement 3-3-5 defense, a scheme built to combat the spread offenses of modern football.
www2.dailyorange.com

The part saying, “if you can’t find good D-Lineman” while this doesn’t apply to us, this defense would still be even better impactful with good d-lineman because of the versatility to have 3 lineman, then switch for 4 or 5 man front within seconds.

My whole consensus is that I hope whoever he chooses as DC has in his philosophy some principles that learn heavily to such a multiple playbook with easily understandable concepts. Think of, many different ways to achieve the same thing. Defense with multiple looks but the coverage is essentially the same but looks different in 3-4 different ways based on the front shown.

If he was going strictly 4-2-5 he should’ve gotten Brad Lambert when he had the chance. He’s one of the better DC’s that sticks with that front.

Ok I’m done babbling for now, we can carry on waiting until late February possibly.
 
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