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OT/ 86 Miami vs 01 Miami

NicKane said:
I’ve said this my whole life, that 86 was the second most talented team we’ve ever had here only behind obviously the 01 team. **** that 86 team might be the second most talented team in all of CFB as it was littered with NFL players and pro bowlers. Vinny just had a really, really bad day! It happens and even though that day was the worst game he ever played in his whole career (college and pro) we still had a chance to win it at the end if he wouldn’t have thrown another interception in the red zone. Smh curse of the fiesta bowl I guess, that venue definitely has our number.
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Still not over that game, we kicked PSU's *** up and down the field that day. I know JJ has called that '86 team the most talented team he ever coached
 
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ScubaCane said:
Still not over that game, we kicked PSU's *** up and down the field that day. I know JJ has called that '86 team the most talented team he ever coached
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I’m still not over it either man, just like I’m not over the 02 Title game. I’ll never get over those two games! Smh I’ve accepted that at this point and just chalk it up to the Miami Fiesta Bowl curse.
 
RemainMack said:
Would have been an awesome game. Just barely old enough to remember 86 but the head to head matchups would have been great. Want to do head to head comparisons but first compare across same positions:

QB '86-Vinny and Steve Walsh as a backup
'01-Dorsey and Crudup as backup
Advantage: slight to 86. As great as Dorsey was, all positions around him made him better than he was. Vinny or Steve Walsh on the '01 team IMHO would have been even better.

RB '86-Highsmith, Warren Williams, M Bratton
'01-Portis, Gore, McGhee, Gore

advantage: '01-86 was good but 01 was maybe GOAT

wr-'86-the playmaker, Brett Perriman, Brian Blades
'01-Andre, Roscoe, Beard.

'86 and it's not even close. Three NFL starters and one hall of famer in that group versus 1 hall of famer in 01. LOL at any hurricane fan picking any wr corps over one led by Irvin (and two other NFL starters). Don't let recency bias fool you.

TE-'86-Alfredo Roberts and Willie Smith

v.
01 -Shockey and Winslow

01 was better. Roberts and Smith were solid but Shockey is legend.

OL-01 was better. Best OL behind the underrated 2010s one we've ever had


DL-'86-Stubbs, Jerome Brown, Sileo, Bill Hawkins
01-Wilfork, McDougal, Jamal Green, Walters

so tough but slight edge to 86. Very slight. They were great

LB-
'86-Shannon, Rod Carter, Mira Jr and Winston Moss
'01-Vilma, Mcintosh

So close. Moss was a really good NFL lb that gets overlooked in his 11 years. Mira Jr was an all-American.

Vilma was very good, Chris Campbell was underrated.

A slight slight edge to '01 but want to call it a tie.

DB-'86-Bennie Blades (Thorpe winner) , Bubba McDowell (NFL starter and was good there, too), Tolbert Bain (four year starter)Selwyn Brown

'01-Rolle, Sikes, Reed, Buchanon was awesome

This is tough but slight edge to 01.
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Geoff Torretta backed up Vinnie. You forgot DJ Williams on the 2001 team. Charles Henry was the #2 TE on the 86 team. As I recall Smith was already in the doghouse. James Lewis started at safety in 2001. Andrew Williams started at DE in 2001. Corny Green was definitely getting a bunch of reps. You forgot Santonio Thomas and William Joseph at DT on the 2001 squad.
 
puertorricane said:
01 is the best college football team ever. Weakest link was QB and still he was serviceable and smart enough to let all the talent around him make plays for him.
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Ken Dorsey was NOT the weakest link. For F's sake, do you remember what the O did in 99 before he took the job? Dorsey made the O run at a high level. Also, look at the drop off when Berlin came in. You know, the former #1 recruit in the country. Dorsey was far from the weakest link. Also, he was in the NFL for what, 7 years? Weak link my ***.
 
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ThomasM said:
Ken Dorsey was NOT the weakest link. For F's sake, do you remember what the O did in 99 before he took the job? Dorsey made the O run at a high level. Also, look at the drop off when Berlin came in. You know, the former #1 recruit in the country. Dorsey was far from the weakest link. Also, he was in the NFL for what, 7 years? Weak link my ***.
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Heisman finalist x 2 = weakest link
... only on CiS
 
Ethnicsands said:
One note - you do the whole depth chart but it's misleading. McGahee wasn't a big part of the '01 team. Gore got time over him. Just as an example. KWII also. It was Shockey. Walsh was on the roster but Geoff Toretta got the back-up snaps iirc. W. Smith was on the roster but A. Roberts got the minutes and there was a different No. 2 TE ahead of Smith. So my focus is on the starts and first guys in on the lines.

This is more than a slight edge to '86. People don't realize how good Vinny was. Yes, he was risky and if he has a bad day he'll make mistakes, and yes, Kenny D. was a low mistake guy. (Walsh was a better Dorsey, as an aside, but that's not relevant to the '86 team.) Vinny is in the CFB Hall of Fame, and played 21 seasons in the NFL! He threw for almost 50,000 yards in the NFL. He retired with several longevity-driven NFL records. Vinny was unique and if he weren't colorblind he might have been one of the true goats of the position. I point this out because if he's on his game, the '01 team has a major problem on D trying to handle Irvin, Blades and Perriman. Doesn't go that way in reverse for Kenny vs. the '86 D. Kenny was good but he had Andre, basically. Bennie Blades, Bubba McDowell ... the '86 DBs were solid and weren't going to get carved up.



'01 was the goat what? Portis was terrific. Gore was a true frosh who got more minutes than Willis. McGahee didn't do much in '01. (The goat college backfield would have to be Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas.)

Highsmith was the 3rd overall pick in the NFL draft (higher than any of the '01 guys fwiw). Injuries shortened his career but he was a heck of a talent. Bratton was tough. Warren Williams was a legit guy who had a 5 or 6 year nfl career. FWIW Cleveland Gary was on that team, too, but didn't get much run that year.

It comes down to style - portis, gore, najeh vs. the more thumpers on the '86 team. I don't think any team is running much on the '86 DL so I don't think Portis is a reason to pick '01 over '86.


Concur on WR. Shockey was the best of the TEs but Alfredo Roberts was a good TE in his day. KWII didn't do a lot on '01 outside of ST, IIRC.



'01 OL was better. No one was messing with McKinnie, and I include Hawkins and Stubbs in that comment. But Joaquin wasn't going to be dominating Stubbs. Great ends vs. tackles match-ups. The interior on '01 wasn't so good that it was going to push around Jerome Brown and Dan Sileo. Clear edge to '86 on the interior line, however. Sherko, Romberg and Bibla weren't so good that they were going to be pushing around Jerome Brown and Dan Sileo. No inside runs coming, which helps the '86 team contain, and Jerome was as good as anyone playing that game.

In reverse, the '86 OL was okay (Rakoczy was strong in the middle, which matters in this match-up), and the '01 DL was solid but Vince was a frosh, and Walters wasn't all that great. McDougle was a very good end. Green was okay but Stubbs and Hawkins were the two best ends in that crowd, but Hawkins was only a Soph in '86, so give McDougle the edge for that season.

I think the '86 DL beats the '01 OL and the '01 DL beats the '86 OL, so there wouldn't be a ton of rushing yards to go around, nor a ton of time to wait for someone to free up at WR. Need quick routes and a QB who can scramble. Edge '86 for those reasons.


Winston Moss was terrific. Mira was legit. Shannon, Carter. The '01 team had DJ, you left him out. I'd say the LBs were a wash but '01's best guy was Vilma on the inside. '86 had Moss, whose ability outside would help contain and that's an issue for the '01 running game because you ain't going straight at Jerome Brown and Dan SIleo. The '01 LBs were great also, however, and I do not see the '86 backs breaking long plays against them.

The most interesting match-up is DBs vs. WRs. '01 with Reed, Rumph, Buchanon (Rolle was ST, not starter) was top notch. Bennie Blades was a Thorpe winner, McDowell a great cover CB. I think the game comes down to how the '01 DBs can handle the '86 WRs, and whether Vinny has a good game. If Vinny was on, no one was beating that team, and the '01 team is included in no one.

Helps that JJ would figure out how to stop Dorsey. Coker would hope Ed Reed would figure out how to stop Vinny. But Ed Reed prolly would figure it out. It really comes down to did Vinny have a good game.

IMO.
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I'm with you, my man. Vinny is the difference maker and he is/was heads and shoulders above KD. The 86 skill position dudes (including qb) >> 01 position dudes and I didn't even have to think about it too much, tbh.

OL for sure goes to 01, for sure. 01 DL overall depth wins but the 86 starters were better. I'd also give the nod to 86 LBs. 01 DBs had more talent, but ****, that one is closer than people think.

Overall, my vote goes to 86 team.
 
ThomasM said:
Ken Dorsey was NOT the weakest link. For F's sake, do you remember what the O did in 99 before he took the job? Dorsey made the O run at a high level. Also, look at the drop off when Berlin came in. You know, the former #1 recruit in the country. Dorsey was far from the weakest link. Also, he was in the NFL for what, 7 years? Weak link my ***.
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He was good but the talent around him made him look better than he was.
 
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RemainMack said:
Would have been an awesome game. Just barely old enough to remember 86 but the head to head matchups would have been great. Want to do head to head comparisons but first compare across same positions:

QB '86-Vinny and Steve Walsh as a backup
'01-Dorsey and Crudup as backup
Advantage: slight to 86. As great as Dorsey was, all positions around him made him better than he was. Vinny or Steve Walsh on the '01 team IMHO would have been even better.

RB '86-Highsmith, Warren Williams, M Bratton
'01-Portis, Gore, McGhee, Gore

advantage: '01-86 was good but 01 was maybe GOAT

wr-'86-the playmaker, Brett Perriman, Brian Blades
'01-Andre, Roscoe, Beard.

'86 and it's not even close. Three NFL starters and one hall of famer in that group versus 1 hall of famer in 01. LOL at any hurricane fan picking any wr corps over one led by Irvin (and two other NFL starters). Don't let recency bias fool you.

TE-'86-Alfredo Roberts and Willie Smith

v.
01 -Shockey and Winslow

01 was better. Roberts and Smith were solid but Shockey is legend.

OL-01 was better. Best OL behind the underrated 2010s one we've ever had


DL-'86-Stubbs, Jerome Brown, Sileo, Bill Hawkins
01-Wilfork, McDougal, Jamal Green, Walters

so tough but slight edge to 86. Very slight. They were great

LB-
'86-Shannon, Rod Carter, Mira Jr and Winston Moss
'01-Vilma, Mcintosh

So close. Moss was a really good NFL lb that gets overlooked in his 11 years. Mira Jr was an all-American.

Vilma was very good, Chris Campbell was underrated.

A slight slight edge to '01 but want to call it a tie.

DB-'86-Bennie Blades (Thorpe winner) , Bubba McDowell (NFL starter and was good there, too), Tolbert Bain (four year starter)Selwyn Brown

'01-Rolle, Sikes, Reed, Buchanon was awesome

This is tough but slight edge to 01.
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few things to add to a very good breakdown

LB in 01-don't forget DJ Williams. Between him, Vilma and Campbell (who was repalced by Calrk in the championship game due to injury), 01 was a little better than 86

DL-01 had great depth. Andreu Williams and Mcdougal as the starters were backed up by Jamal and Cornelius Green. William Joseph was a stud and Wilfork didn't even start in 01. Again, due to depth and each line have one HOFer (Wilfork is a lock) I give the edge to 01. Though JB was the best d-lineman on either squad.
 
AtlAtty said:
few things to add to a very good breakdown

LB in 01-don't forget DJ Williams. Between him, Vilma and Campbell (who was repalced by Calrk in the championship game due to injury), 01 was a little better than 86

DL-01 had great depth. Andreu Williams and Mcdougal as the starters were backed up by Jamal and Cornelius Green. William Joseph was a stud and Wilfork didn't even start in 01. Again, due to depth and each line have one HOFer (Wilfork is a lock) I give the edge to 01. Though JB was the best d-lineman on either squad.
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I forgot Wilfork was next year. You're right. Williams and Mcdougal were the juco boys.

I think Bill Hawkins was underrated in 86. And Sileo, despite all the message board jokes, was really good up there, too. Not the same depth, but I like the starters better.
 
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RemainMack said:
Yeah, I should have just meant the overall starters but my opinions stand.

I think 86 would have actually won the game and it has one defacto part everyone overlooks when describing 01: how could a team, even as a talented as 01, been considered the GOAT with a coach like Coker as its head? No way.

Jimmy Johnson+86 >Coker+01. They are night and day different in terms of running a program (and would bet on JJ for one game).
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It’s an interesting question -

- JJ vs Coker is easy
- Ed Reed vs Vinny T is easy

Bad game for Vinny and ‘01 wins big. Good game for Vinny and ‘86 wins all day long.
 
RemainMack said:
I forgot Wilfork was next year. You're right. Williams and Mcdougal were the juco boys.

I think Bill Hawkins was underrated in 86. And Sileo, despite all the message board jokes, was really good up there, too. Not the same depth, but I like the starters better.
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Bill Hawkins would have had a long NFL if not for a knee. Consensus All-American in 88.
 
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RemainMack said:
I forgot Wilfork was next year. You're right. Williams and Mcdougal were the juco boys.

I think Bill Hawkins was underrated in 86. And Sileo, despite all the message board jokes, was really good up there, too. Not the same depth, but I like the starters better.
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Wilfork had 41 tackles as backup in 2001 as a true freshman. He didn't even start until 2003.
 
Ethnicsands said:
It’s an interesting question -

- JJ vs Coker is easy
- Ed Reed vs Vinny T is easy

Bad game for Vinny and ‘01 wins big. Good game for Vinny and ‘86 wins all day long.
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If the game is played during the regular season then ‘86 wins.

If it’s a bowl game then ‘01 wins...because...Vinny.
 
Ethnicsands said:
One note - you do the whole depth chart but it's misleading. McGahee wasn't a big part of the '01 team. Gore got time over him. Just as an example. KWII also. It was Shockey. Walsh was on the roster but Geoff Toretta got the back-up snaps iirc. W. Smith was on the roster but A. Roberts got the minutes and there was a different No. 2 TE ahead of Smith. So my focus is on the starts and first guys in on the lines.

This is more than a slight edge to '86. People don't realize how good Vinny was. Yes, he was risky and if he has a bad day he'll make mistakes, and yes, Kenny D. was a low mistake guy. (Walsh was a better Dorsey, as an aside, but that's not relevant to the '86 team.) Vinny is in the CFB Hall of Fame, and played 21 seasons in the NFL! He threw for almost 50,000 yards in the NFL. He retired with several longevity-driven NFL records. Vinny was unique and if he weren't colorblind he might have been one of the true goats of the position. I point this out because if he's on his game, the '01 team has a major problem on D trying to handle Irvin, Blades and Perriman. Doesn't go that way in reverse for Kenny vs. the '86 D. Kenny was good but he had Andre, basically. Bennie Blades, Bubba McDowell ... the '86 DBs were solid and weren't going to get carved up.



'01 was the goat what? Portis was terrific. Gore was a true frosh who got more minutes than Willis. McGahee didn't do much in '01. (The goat college backfield would have to be Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas.)

Highsmith was the 3rd overall pick in the NFL draft (higher than any of the '01 guys fwiw). Injuries shortened his career but he was a heck of a talent. Bratton was tough. Warren Williams was a legit guy who had a 5 or 6 year nfl career. FWIW Cleveland Gary was on that team, too, but didn't get much run that year.

It comes down to style - portis, gore, najeh vs. the more thumpers on the '86 team. I don't think any team is running much on the '86 DL so I don't think Portis is a reason to pick '01 over '86.


Concur on WR. Shockey was the best of the TEs but Alfredo Roberts was a good TE in his day. KWII didn't do a lot on '01 outside of ST, IIRC.



'01 OL was better. No one was messing with McKinnie, and I include Hawkins and Stubbs in that comment. But Joaquin wasn't going to be dominating Stubbs. Great ends vs. tackles match-ups. The interior on '01 wasn't so good that it was going to push around Jerome Brown and Dan Sileo. Clear edge to '86 on the interior line, however. Sherko, Romberg and Bibla weren't so good that they were going to be pushing around Jerome Brown and Dan Sileo. No inside runs coming, which helps the '86 team contain, and Jerome was as good as anyone playing that game.

In reverse, the '86 OL was okay (Rakoczy was strong in the middle, which matters in this match-up), and the '01 DL was solid but Vince was a frosh, and Walters wasn't all that great. McDougle was a very good end. Green was okay but Stubbs and Hawkins were the two best ends in that crowd, but Hawkins was only a Soph in '86, so give McDougle the edge for that season.

I think the '86 DL beats the '01 OL and the '01 DL beats the '86 OL, so there wouldn't be a ton of rushing yards to go around, nor a ton of time to wait for someone to free up at WR. Need quick routes and a QB who can scramble. Edge '86 for those reasons.


Winston Moss was terrific. Mira was legit. Shannon, Carter. The '01 team had DJ, you left him out. I'd say the LBs were a wash but '01's best guy was Vilma on the inside. '86 had Moss, whose ability outside would help contain and that's an issue for the '01 running game because you ain't going straight at Jerome Brown and Dan SIleo. The '01 LBs were great also, however, and I do not see the '86 backs breaking long plays against them.

The most interesting match-up is DBs vs. WRs. '01 with Reed, Rumph, Buchanon (Rolle was ST, not starter) was top notch. Bennie Blades was a Thorpe winner, McDowell a great cover CB. I think the game comes down to how the '01 DBs can handle the '86 WRs, and whether Vinny has a good game. If Vinny was on, no one was beating that team, and the '01 team is included in no one.

Helps that JJ would figure out how to stop Dorsey. Coker would hope Ed Reed would figure out how to stop Vinny. But Ed Reed prolly would figure it out. It really comes down to did Vinny have a good game.

IMO.
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Ive seen both teams growing up and 86 team wouldn't be able to stop Dre and Shockey. Also Reed would be a nightmare for Vinny.
 
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